Confused about attitudes to prams on buses

[5FeetOfWater]

I know this can be a sensitive topic but I'd like some honest opinions.

I get the bus twice a day with 15-month-old. I usually park buggy in the space where the fold-down seats are (not the wheelchair space opposite, I know wheelchair users have priority and if I used this space I'd always give it up if someone needed it).

There are often 2 or 3 prams on the bus, sometimes 4. And almost every day I hear people complaining 'in my day we used to walk from - to - with the prams' (approx 45-min walk) 'look at all those prams, we never took our prams on the bus' 'why don't they fold their prams' etc.
I could understand this attitude if bus was crowded but it's generally half empty so the prams aren't in the way.
Yet people still sit on the fold-down seats when they can see prams are getting on. Yesterday I politely said
'Excuse me please, I need to put my buggy here' (at least 8 other seats free)
Lady moved to a seat 1m away with much muttering and glaring.

I always give up my seat if needed and avoid the priority seats as I'm aware people with walking aids and shopping trolleys need the extra space. But on some buses the fold-up seats have a sign above saying 'please give up this space to parents with prams and pushchairs'. There are 4 priority seats behind this area with space for walking aids.

I know I could fold, but it's safer to have DD strapped in. She's only just walking and I'd struggle to hold her and carry folded pushchair and nursery bags/shopping/my work bags. I often see mums with a toddler and a baby in pram really struggling to fit pram it because no-one wants to move.

AIBU??

Oh yes, the bendy buses were great for buggies! I'm glad I wasn't still using the buggy when they ditched them for the scorrchio Boris buses.

I think the different types of buses/different areas thing is key.

Buses here don't have a designated space for buggies. There's a wheelchair space and opposite that there's a space with fold down seats where you could fit a buggy or two if the seats aren't being used. Those seats are marked as priority seats for the elderly and disabled though, so expecting someone to move so you could put your buggy there would be unreasonable.

Obviously not allowing someone to use a buggy in a designated buggy space is also completely unreasonable.

OP - take your pushchair on the bus or train. It is public transport which means it is for everyone.

Fuck the commuters - which I am one of in London (zone 3-1 and back again) and have been for many years.

As long as you let a wheelchair take priority all is good.

I remember my mum being screeched at by a 'commuter' in the early Eightes whilst pregnant with me and a toddler - entitled wanker...

You use public transport how you want to - it's for all everyone.

Well this will explain why two women weren't happy when I parked the buggy in the designated buggy space a few months ago.
They were both looking at me.
"They just don't think do they?"

I assume they meant I didn't think about something regarding the buggy on the bus. Not sure what as I wasn't doing anything wrong.
Some people have a real chip on their shoulder when it comes to mums with prams especially on buses.

I rarely use buses. However had to travel on. 10 mile journey with a newborn and 2 year old with my very long double buggy. I got on the bus and the bigger space was taken by someone with a small buggy who immediately moved to the other space. I was so grateful. No way could I have collapsed buggy 2 weeks post C-section.
Op you soon very reasonable.

I use the bus daily and yes encounter anti pram muttering. I would always fold for a wheelchair user, or if there's no space. But it seems some people will never be happy unless you're hunched over a hard to push flimsy stroller that folds tiny or baby wear non stop.

Probably 70% of the time I use a baby carrier but this isn't always an option, sometimes I'm going to be out for hours with my (very heavy and not impressed with being in the carrier for long) 11 month old.

The only people that seem to get openly annoyed are those who are traveling for free. I pay a lot of money to use the bus so I can't say I feel particularly sympathetic to the grumblings.

All depends for me. Depends on what time you are travelling - rush hour unless essential - in reasonable!
Type of pram - some are stupidly big if you live in London and knew you would travel by bus 2x a day then probably would be annoyed by you and be judgey - would assume you were style over substance and a bit entitled
45 minute walk I can't see the problem particularly if you are on maternity leave tbh i often preferred to walk ( I don't drive) a big frustration is now ds walks I can't go for a nice long walk as easily.

Surely the buggy spaces were to make life few easier for mums. Whether you agree with that is up for debate I guess, I think they're great and have never once resented a buggy being on a busy bus.

I used to automatically fold when ds was little because most local buses didn't have a buggy or wheelchair space. He was about 3 when different buses were introduced and then I didn't fold unless I had to because his disability meant that he became hard to manage when not in his buggy (getting very distressed, biting me). Now he is 10 I don't use public transport at all because of the risk of others not folding or moving out of the wheelchair space.

As long as people don't get the arse about ds's sn buggy, not folding (and we have had some battles in the past) and people are considerate and help each other out, and accept that sometimes we won't all fit on, then I can't see a problem with whatever buggy you have.

YANBU. The person who didn't want to move was being an arse, as are those who moan about mums using buggy spaces. It's just another reason to air their deep-seated misogyny for some.

I hate the attitude that a bus journey should be an exercise in causing yourself as much hassle as possible just to prove that you can cope with just of much of that as the previous generation. It needs to be a convenient alternative to driving if we are ever going to tackle air quality. General courtesy and tolerance is all that is required, not martyrdom. Yanbu.

but WHY do the hatchet-faced yorkshire women of mumsnet assume that, when there may or may not be any good reason to do so, all mothers must be working at 100% to the point of pain or discomfort at all times?

It's because they have cars. at the 'baby in the 70s' stuff like it was medieval. My mum just popped me in the car and yes I even had a car seat.

Yanbu op, I don't get it at all. Surely a nicer world is where we all coexist and make life as easy and pleasant as possible for each other.

I hate the attitude that a bus journey should be an exercise in causing yourself as much hassle as possible just to prove that you can cope with just of much of that as the previous generation.

Exactly. Just because mums 30 or 40 years ago had it tough when getting on a bus it doesn't mean they have the right to take it out on new mums of today and look down at them.

Whenever I get on a bus with the pram I feel like we are an inconvenience because of the way society views mums (especially young mums), and especially when you have a pram and more than one child.

Mums with young children are just an easy target for some people to have a moan at either directly or passive aggressively.

Yes, it does seem to be mixed up with an attitude that if you're lowly enough to be on a bus with children then you should be grateful to be allowed on at all. Oh and the casual misogyny. Dh gets complimented on a pretty much weekly basis for doing such heroics as "interacting with his child on a bus" and "teaching her to cross the road". See also: attitude to Dads leaving a meeting early for school run.

Longestlurker
Ive been congratulated for interacting with my child on a train. Its not only men.

And on another thread like this the exact same people who thought that people should fold down buggies in anticipation of someone else needing the space (as opposed to waiting to see if someone later did) were adamant that they should be allowed to stand downstairs and we're outraged by the suggestion that those who are able to access the seats upstairs should consider doing so rather tgan blocking the stairs and aisle

That is good to hear Bruffin. On mumsnet women generally get derided for performance parenting rather than told they are doing a good job. Dh only has one day of lone parenting a fortnight but gets such compliments pretty much every time!

When you "politely" asked a woman to move for you, without realising it, you were actually telling her she was an abysmal human being for daring to sit there and for not knowing that you were going to get on after her and would want to use the space

Actually no. I wasn't 'blaming' her just politely asking her to move (to another seat less than 1m away) so I could access the bus as well. If there was a reason she needed a fold down seat then fair enough, I would wait for another bus. But the vast majority sit there because they don't notice prams getting on, or don't think about where the prams will fit, and in some cases think mums with prams shouldn't be using the bus. I should add that many people are very considerate, moving when they see a pram getting on or vacating the seat with a smile when asked. But it does make me angry when I see other mums struggling with pram, baby, bags and people muttering about having to move. Last week there was a heavily pregnant mum with buggy and tantruming toddler, standing with buggy wedged into small gap. The lady sitting next to buggy (who could have moved back and vacated the seat for the mum) pulled a sour face and muttered when she had to move her bag and feet a few inches to make space for the buggy wheels. No obvious mobility problems or walking aids.

Interesting about someone preferring fold up seat after hip surgery. I hadn't thought of that. I used to work on orthopaedics and we advised patients not to use fold up seats due to the risk of falls. But I appreciate there may be a reason someone wants to use one and I assume they would say so if I asked for the space. I would never ask someone with a mobility aid or who seemed unsteady boarding the bus.

For me it boils down to safety. My toddler is safer strapped into her buggy with the brake on. Not wriggling around on a seat or balanced on my lap with all the bags.

I used an Ergo carrier when she was younger but find it too tiring now (and a back-carry doesn't work well when they're tantruming and pulling your hair). Even when she was younger I found it tricky to fold and unfold buggy with her in carrier, as you need to bend down.

I would always opt to get the next bus rather than fold. But it frustrates me when there are loads of empty seats and people don't want to let prams and buggies on.

Dh gets complimented on a pretty much weekly basis for doing such heroics as "interacting with his child on a bus"

Me and DH take turns to the nursery run via bus at rush hour with toddler DD in a carrier. (We also take her in the buggy at other times, because we are feckless entitled parent-monsters mwahaha.)

Anyway: rush hour, often busy, sometimes standing room only by our stop. When that happens with DH, someone offers him a seat about 4 times out of 5. When it's me, that's more like 1 time out of 5. And he regularly gets praised for being out with his own child on the bus too, by people who weirdly never even seem to notice me.

45 minute walk I can't see the problem particularly if you are on maternity leave tbh i often preferred to walk

I agree a walk can be nice if you have the time and energy. But after a day at work there is no way I want to walk 45-minutes (in the dark, beside a busy road). I want to get DD home as quickly as possible and start bedtime routine.

fleabag generally speaking, no.

My Mother was in a wheelchair temporarily a few years back after spending a long time in hospital. I dont drive and and she had several hospital checkups. The bars that have to come down and that to position a wheelchair is to stop it from going for a spin when the bus is moving. In my own logic, may be wrong but I came to the conclusion that it is because babies and toddlers are already safely strapped in to their buggies in case of an accident, not always the case with wheelchairs.

Re the OP I think most people get Judgey because of some entitled parents they have encountered. I've witnessed occassions where Mums with prams have refused to fold down for a wheelchair waiting at the bus stop in the middle of winter. Then again I've also witnessed two young mums with babies in prams and toddlers in tow see a wheelchair waiting and haven't even hesitated to organise and help each other fold the prams down and away for the wheelchair to get on.
I once asked a driver about more seats and I think he explained something about insurance reasons is why they don't have more.

My DCs are out their buggies now but I still get judgey looks because I now have a giant rucksack I carry DSs things in that gets in everyone's way instead!

The idea that someone with a child is by definition not in a hurry is also annoying. Dh and I work in the same office. Sometimes if I get called in for something urgent on my day off I will have dd with me on the way to work so I can hand her over to dh ob his lunch break or whatever. Sometimes after a day of looking after her dm brings her to me at work so she can catch an earlier train home, so I also "have had a long day at work" while travelling on a bus/tube with dd. Sometimes I'm in a hurry just because dd is grumpy and cross and needs lunch/a nap. There are as many different reasons as to why someone might be on a bus with a child as anyone else. Buses are for everyone.

When I have the pram with me I do get the bus but I also walk a lot too. But really I do that for me and not for the people who get won't like the pram being on the bus.