To think it's taking the piss for a bloke on remand accused of double rape to decide he is a woman?

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sex-gender-change-pomont-9141800.amp?client=ms-android-google

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What advantages do you think s/he's going to get from this? None at trial, surely. As for her going into a women's prison, surely all prisoners need to be protected from dangerous fellow-prisoners? If she was sharing a room or using communal showers with women prisoners that's one thing, but it's a massive leap to suggest that's going to happen.

And to the poster who said she's never heard of a "male vagina", this is likely because you get your info on transsexual issues on hysterical mn threads. One of my closest friends is a trans man, very strange you think they don't exist.

Transactivists made it up. I doubt it's commonly used by HCPs yet. But if trans lobbyists have their way it will be.

No, just pointing out your woolly thinking, Edmund.

Edmund, that if someone says they are a woman and have a female penis, then they are a woman and must be allowed access to all female sex segregated facilities and treated like a woman at all times. You are singling out this individual and saying they have no right to be treated as a woman. That's transphobic.

Particularly since we are talking about someone on remand and not serving a sentence. Although it makes sense to keep rapists with penises out of women's prisons, it isn't legally reasonable to put this particular person in that category until and unless "she" is convicted (mental gymnastics not to misgender).

I agree with pps that transgender individuals are severely and unfairly ill served by opportunists such as this person appears to be. We MUST have a better definition of what "trans" actually means before we go too far down the rabbit hole.

Or preferably let's expand our understanding of what a man is to include dresses/sensitive nature/nail varnish/mascara before we expand our legal definition of woman to include a penis.

#spartacus

Should also add that she was genuinely very worried about the impact on vulnerable prisoners many of whom has suffered appalling abuse (both physical and sexual) from men in the past and on members of staff particularly muslim women who were being ordered to carry out searches.

Heartened that the newspaper this is in isn't pandering to this man's nonsense by referring to him as her.

That's probably terribly bigoted and transphobic of me though.

What advantages do you think s/he's going to get from this? None at trial, surely.

Segregation from male prisoners. Considered to be housed with female prisoners. Currently enjoying "rub downs" from female officers.

As for her going into a women's prison, surely all prisoners need to be protected from dangerous fellow-prisoners? If she was sharing a room or using communal showers with women prisoners that's one thing, but it's a massive leap to suggest that's going to happen.

Many (most?) women in prison have experienced male violence. How will they feel being housed with a male, even if he poses no risk.

And to the poster who said she's never heard of a "male vagina", this is likely because you get your info on transsexual issues on hysterical mn threads. One of my closest friends is a trans man, very strange you think they don't exist.

Transmen are female.

It is obvious things like this were going to happen. If all a rapist needs to say is 'actually I now identify as female' and everyone falls over themselves to have him searched by women or locked with female prisoners, what do they think he is going to do?

I would imagine that prisoners who have carried is it racist attacks are not given a cell to share with BME prisoners, that measures have to be out in place to protect male prisoners from male sex offenders and other sorts of violence. No all these issues are not exactly analogous, but the point is that it's not a prisoner's gender identity that breaches other rights, it's a system that doesn't properly safeguar everyone's rights. It seems to me perfectly possible for a male prisoner to live as a woman in a way that doesn't put women at risk.

poster myownprivateidaho Fri 28-Oct-16 13:53:14
What advantages do you think s/he's going to get from this? None at trial, surely. As for her going into a women's prison, surely all prisoners need to be protected from dangerous fellow-prisoners? If she was sharing a room or using communal showers with women prisoners that's one thing, but it's a massive leap to suggest that's going to happen.

oh awsome so we can all pay for a dedicated officer to take this sex feind round to shower , change Ect when eveyone else has finished because there is a sulpus of staff😳🙄

I am feeling postively hysterical about this, you know, with me a being a woman and all.

It seems to me perfectly possible for a male prisoner to live as a woman in a way that doesn't put women at risk.

Only if you entirely discount risks to mental health.

I can't imagine that the real female prisoners in Cornton Vale would give him an easy ride either.

This is gone so far beyond ridiculous; it's fucking terrifying

poster myownprivateidaho Fri 28-Oct-16 14:01:07
I would imagine that prisoners who have carried is it racist attacks are not given a cell to share with BME prisoners, that measures have to be out in place to protect male prisoners from male sex offenders and other sorts of violence. No all these issues are not exactly analogous, but the point is that it's not a prisoner's gender identity that breaches other rights, it's a system that doesn't properly safeguar everyone's rights. It seems to me perfectly possible for a male prisoner to live as a woman in a way that doesn't put women at risk.

yes because sharing a cell is the only time yu get to socialise 🙄 You clearly have no clue how prisons run my sister works in feltham many of the stabbings and attacks actually happening when the inmates are socialising and usually out number the staff it wouldn't be much of a leap if you can stab Somone or assault Somone you could rape tham

And worse still if its consensual the reason why we don't have male and female images to together because we don't want rape but we don't want prison romance , pregnancy and the drama relationships can bring in a confined space with people who often are not mature

I knew this would happen. A rapist getting sexual kicks by forcing women guards to frisk him.

Vile.

But of course he's not a 'real' transwoman, is he? As long as that's the line that's trotted out every single time one of these cases comes up, women are at risk.

The extream left are destroying this country with there PC bull shit

Well yes I do think it's worth paying for dedicated facilities rather than putting women at risk. I don't agree with anyone being force to pay down or strip search anyone they're not comfortable with. I don't think cis women should have to share showers/bedrooms with trans women if they don't want that.

What I'm saying is that the prison system already deals with the problem of an enclosed space with extremely violent, predatory and sexually predatory individuals and also very vulnerable people. It's a problem, no doubt. But it's one that if you have a prison system you have to be able to deal with. And I don't really understand why this instance of that problem should be considered uniquely challenging.

I can't imagine that the real female prisoners in Cornton Vale would give him an easy ride either.

That's for sure. I saw a documentary on that place once.

As it happens I've also spent time teaching in Feltham YOI. Yes, safeguarding is a problem. But as I say it's a problem inherent in the prison system and one with which the prison system should be able to deal without compromising people's rights unnecessarily.

It seems the right to "self identify" has caused more problems than it has ever solved.

I don't know if he is saying this because he thinks he can benefit from it in light of the charges against him. It shouldn't. However it's possible to be both someone who feels they should be a woman, while appearing outward to be male, and being a rapist. They are not mutually exclusive. He may well be both. We certainly aren't in a position to know enough to judge, having read a newspaper article.

The question is rather whether any men who feel they are women should be allowed free access to all female sex segregated spaces.

People convicted of racist crimes against BME are housed amongst BME prisoners (I know this because a relative works with prisoners). They usually don't disclose that their crime was a hate crime because sadly quite a large percentage of the prison population is BME and....well im sure you can work out that they won't be well liked if the other prisoners find out that they are in for a racially motivated crime. But it's much easier to hide the racist element of your crime and just admit to being in for a serious assault than it is to hide the fact that you are in for multiple rapes. A transgender prisoner who is MTF (or one who is pretending to be transgender) who is in prison for rape should be held in a male prison on the vulnerable prisoners wing as that is where he belongs, especially if he still has a penis. He has no place being held amongst women many of whom are terrified of men due to their experiences. I also don't think that female prison officers should be made to pay down rapists or sexual offenders, transgender or not because of the sexual thrill it may give the offender.

I can't imagine that the real female prisoners in Cornton Vale would give him an easy ride either.

I would imagine that there are a number of women there would might take it upon themselves to give rapist a taste of their own medicine.