To think enough is enough, time to have a re-vote on brexit

[jdoe8]

I'm still having problems sleeping with brexit, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night thinking it was just a nightmare. But its real and with each day it gets worse.

Now the banks are saying they will leave the UK, as we are 80% services and the banks are a very significant part of this it will be catastrophic for the UK economy.

Most of the people i know that voted to brexit now regret their decision so why not have another vote on it?

It does say that declaration of intention needs to happen before negotiations can happen, I take that to mean article 50 needs to be declared, now you can take it to mean that an unofficial intention can be declared but no othere country has donevery, as with much it's down to interpretation.

In the end this is a sign of how things will be done. Or did you think that the EU would just bow down and give us what you want.

Oh and I'm pretty good at my facts btw.

Please no referendums ever ever again. David Cameron was a total and utter tool for giving this choice to the public.

Personally though, I love the term remoaner. I think it's very witty and we all love a good moan. Especially if it keeps the Brexshitters on their toes. And after all, we have an awful lot to moan about for years to come.

I think the UK is up the creek. I think we should go for hard Brexit and see what happens. Of course, if it all goes tits up, it absolutely and categorically is nothing at all to do with voting Leave. Remember that.

Of course, if it all goes tits up, it absolutely and categorically is nothing at all to do with voting Leave.

Naturally winky, we must be very clear that anything bad is simultaneously not happening, would have happened anyway, and caused by the negative thinking of Remoaners .

we must be very clear that anything bad is simultaneously not happening, would have happened anyway, and caused by the negative thinking of Remoaners
Laughing my head off on this

You'd love it all to go tits up wouldn't you - just so you can prove you were right to a bunch of internet strangers.

Weird.

Basically, we're FUKD.

I just want everyone to get on with it and make the best out of a bad deal.

The markets don't like uncertainty, and re-running the referendum would cause significant uncertainty, as well as cost a lot of money and detract attention for all the other, non-EU stuff that needs sorting out

I just want everyone to get on with it and make the best out of a bad deal.

Please tell me exactly what you are doing to make the best of it?

You'd love it all to go tits up wouldn't you - just so you can prove you were right to a bunch of internet strangers.

Um, no. Y'know, because we're here too, with our families and homes and jobs and lives and all that. If it goes tits up, we're affected tOK. Hence the caring about it and not feeling content with sitting back and thinking happy thoughts.

Somewhat ironically it is certain Leavers who seem keen for "Remoaners" to bugger off elsewhere.

*too

(WTF is "tOK" autocorrect?)

Vaguely hoping that the stupidity of Brexit will warn US voters against danger of voting for self-aggrandising gobshites like He who Doesn't Deserve to be Named.

He who Doesn't Deserve to be Named

Or who should be named drumpf

My DH works in finance. He says we're looking into an abyss right now - that the brexit effect is about to hit good and hard. He could be wrong but is generally not wrong - only person I know who sold his property just before the credit crunch!

If Britain goes through the wringer it seems only common sense that public opinion may be altered by that. There's no point hanging the nation on our own petard in the name of democracy. Come to that, there is nothing undemocratic about checking again (through another ref) to get the most up to date advice from the nation that we can possibly get. This is going to be a long process about a very complex subject and there was a general ignorance about what it would involve the first time. Common sense dictates that a more informed and experienced vote would be available in six months or a year.

People are still free to vote however they wish. That's democracy. Parliament can ignore the result. That's democracy.

I think it's frightening that people don't fully grasp how bad this may be for us.

If Britain leaves the EU in 2 years without a trade deal (bear in mind it's taken 7 years to write one with Canada and that still hasn't been signed) then we resort to WTO tariffs on imports. Just one example is meat, any of our meat that is imported would carry a 27% tariff. We eat a lot of imported meat. That's meat imported from anywhere in the world as our current deals all involve our EU membership.

The lower cost in the pound will already trigger higher prices as many products are priced in dollars. Our pounds will now buy less of these. A standard rule of thumb is a 10% drop in the pound will yield a 3% price rise. We're on 17%.

People may not like bankers but they pay about 25% of Britain's tax intake. EU membership is about 0.1%. If banks leave the UK to get passporting rights into the EU and we lose even 2% of our bankers we'll have made a loss even without paying in to the EU.

The fall in the pound has lost us our place in the world. We're not the 5th largest economy anymore and lenders have lost confidence in Britain.

Britain has been hit with a shameful rise in racist attacks. I don't think for a second that leave voters are all racists but the vote has given confidence and legitimacy to those who are racist. We're losing our reputation for tolerance and respect.

A lot of people talk about the constraints that the EU puts on our government but it's not always a bad thing. When the tories came after disability rights it was the EU that protected disability rights. It's the EU that enforces disabled access to buildings and that toilets etc are put in. It was the EU that enforced fire retardation on sofas and soft furnishings. It's the EU that has put safety regulations on toys and set standards for production. The EU has cleared up beaches and helped rejuvenate run down areas. The EU has run joint projects across Europe to research, train and collaborate across all areas of study.

I don't see any benefits to Brexit that outweigh the costs.

Slender, have you and your dh hatched a plan of sorts if he is so realistic pessimistic?

Don't imagine any Leave voters on here taking any substantiated Remain points made into consideration.

As far as they are concerned, all we care about is that we "lost". Like it's a matter of pride or some sort of football match.

Nothing to do with the great fear of the repercussions.

A lot of people talk about the constraints that the EU puts on our government but it's not always a bad thing. When the tories came after disability rights it was the EU that protected disability rights. It's the EU that enforces disabled access to buildings and that toilets etc are put in. It was the EU that enforced fire retardation on sofas and soft furnishings. It's the EU that has put safety regulations on toys and set standards for production. The EU has cleared up beaches and helped rejuvenate run down areas. The EU has run joint projects across Europe to research, train and collaborate across all areas of study

But apart from that, what have the Romans done for us ?

People may not like bankers but they pay about 25% of Britain's tax intake

What does that mean they pay 25% of all income tax

Becca - I completely agree with what you have said, and that's the resounding question in my head through all of this - what do we gain? I truly can't see any gain that outweighs what we lose. I'm so gutted that my children won't be able to have the same opportunities and freedoms that we had because of this. I also really sense the change in perception of Brits now - I have friends in Germany, Belgium and Spain and they think we are mad and are shocked at the spike in racism. I think our 'brand' has been badly damaged - I'm not sure people would go out of their way to buy British at the moment!

I sat up the whole night of the referendum watching in total disbelief.

I honestly still cannot believe that anyone in their right mind can think it is a good idea to leave, it is like watching a slow car crash right now. I've just sat and rationally read all 15 pages of this thread and still can't pick out a single positive in it.

I feel so sad and ashamed about the whole situation.

Quornflakes if you really don't understand why people are having sleepless nights over it then you really don't understand do you.

I'm not sure people would go out of their way to buy British at the moment!
My thoughts too! When a huge number of EU citizens are watching the xenophobic language and trends emerging like this,specially in a place like the Tory conference itself and from May herself, I just don't see them staying happy customers if some British brand that we try to sell them once this mess is even half cleared. And even if we do manage to come up with some kind of future in manufacturing and export.

The lower pound means less incentive for other europeans to work here. I dont' think immigrants flock to britain cos they like the brits, they flock because the exchange rate is good for them and they are better off, with more opportunities (free school and nhs helps much in this decision).

So many immigrants will move to other countries (though I suspect this is an empty threat as we have schools, nhs, useful english language if you should want to move to US etc so there is a lot to attract them here over elsewhere). Only time will tell if they vamoose or not.

Being ruled by an unwieldy behemoth in times which are changing rapidly doesn't seem a good idea. It should have been changed over the years but instead has got bigger and more unwieldy.

Trading with Africa, China, Canada, USA, Australia, S America seems a good idea too at the moment as they produce different products to us, unlike EU where we are all competing for the same companies.

Imv we are getting in first at changing our main trading partners. Seems a good idea, one which the rest of the EU are eyeing angrily, hence the threats to be hard on the UK, it's to stop others wanting to leave too. That says it all imo.

It is definitely the case that European leaders are fearful of their project falling apart.

Europe, and especially the Euro, has been colossally damaging for a whole swathe of Europe. There is an entirely wasted generation in Southern Europe with the best and brightest leaving their home countries to set up London ghettoes.

The Panglossian picture painted by the remainers of a peaceful and racially tolerant Europe is far from the truth. The EC has led to a resurgence of racism throughout Europe as scapegoats are sought for internal problems. Europe does not have common values, a common language or a common culture. i think anyone who has actually travelled in Europe knows that.

Economically the only way that Europe can work is by recycling the German surplus. This can only happen by Germans hugely increasing spending or by real payments (100s of billions of Euros) from the German exchequer to Southern Europe. Is this likely to happen?

The Euro has been a large part of this disaster. The idea that you can artificially appreciate a currency and then lock it in at a wholly inappropriate exchange rate and not expect economic disaster is laughable. I imagine the pigs (to use an unfashionable but useful acronym) are looking on enviously at our quick fx adjustment to external stress, one they can no longer make.

The reality is we do live in a global economy and businesses find a way to compete. Trying to artificially lock ourselves away in a decaying edifice, harking back to great times past is what remainers think the exiters are doing. I suspect it may be the other way around.

France used to be awfully racist against north african immigrants, something to do with the Algerian War for independence.

Germany used to be pretty racist, I could be wrong but initially, 70s, they allowed Turkish people in to man the factories but refused them citizenship. They were very second class citizens, sent back when their contract ended. They haven't always been inclusive and they admit they are inclusive now as there is low birthrate and they need a population to pay for pensions for the elderly.

Beating Leavers about the head for racism is naive.

Germany used to be pretty racist - this must take the prize for the understatement of the year. Oh, a little local difficult with a man called Adolf in the 1930s that we went to war against.

Other countries are equally racist, so that makes it OK for us to be racist too, does it?