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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Trump will win

242 replies

HappyCamel · 22/10/2016 04:42

I'm living in the Southern States. I think he might well do it. Clinton is coming off as seriously corrupt. No one thought BREXIT would actually happen either. What's the feeling on the U.K. side of the pond?

OP posts:
Bananabread123 · 23/10/2016 09:33

And that's what I worry about... That he'll have a disciplined final fortnight, and that the poll gap will close as a result...

Sweatynetty · 23/10/2016 09:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bananabread123 · 23/10/2016 09:36

Also, when Trump said last year that his supporters were so loyal that they'd still back him if he shot someone, I thought that was just typical Trump nonsense... However, given the past year and all the crap that's come out, I genuinely think that many are so crazed they actually would still vote for him if he did this!

Sweatynetty · 23/10/2016 09:43

Sorry all - wrong thread! Have reported my lipstick post Grin

noblegiraffe · 23/10/2016 09:43

Someone from Trump's camp on radio 4 the other day said it didn't really matter that Trump said and did awful things because Trump voters weren't voting Trump because he was a great guy, but because of what he represents and who he isn't.

Aderyn2016 · 23/10/2016 10:10

I heard that HC is hated because her h was alleged to have assaulted women and she is alleged to have helped cover it up.
The email scandal was because she bypassed all CIA security to have emails sent to her home, which wasn't a secure network and apparently put the lives of US servicemen working undercover at risk. As well as their families. You would expect someone in her position to know better, so the conclusion follows that she is either stupid or didn't care.
When caught she installed complicated software to delete her messages. Software that you apparently cannot just buy - it was a deliberate attempt to hide what she had done and that info still hasn't all been retrieved, so who knows what she was doing.
She continued to access emails long after she stopped being sec of state because she had bypassed security. She had no right to that information. I believe she also claimed not to know that C stands for classified. Hope that one is just a myth.
The Clinton foundation also receives money from places like Saudi, which has little respect for the rights of women. I don't think HC has women's interests at heart any more than Trump - he is just more obvious.

So, either HC is spectacularly stupid (which I doubt) or she is crooked. Either way, would you want her as president if you were American? The USA keeps trying to extradite that poor autistic kid who hacked their servers but HC has done worse. If this is what she has done could it not be described as treasonous?
Donald Trump is a misogynistic arse, but arguably so is Hillary. It is a damning indictment of her that Trump is still in the running. America is fucked, whoever wins.

PausingFlatly · 23/10/2016 10:15

From the article Seneca linked:

When the Bush administration was discovered to have erased millions of emails illegally sent by 22 administration officials through private, RNC-owned accounts, in order to thwart an investigation into the politically motivated firing of eight US attorneys, just one talk show covered it that Sunday.

When Mitt Romney wiped servers, sold government hard drives to his closest aides and spent $100,000 in taxpayer money to destroy his administration’s emails, it was barely an issue.

When Hillary Clinton asked Colin Powell how he managed to use a Blackberry while serving as Secretary of State, he replied by detailing his method of intentionally bypassing federal record-keeping laws:

I didn’t have a Blackberry. What I did do was have a personal computer that was hooked up to a private phone line (sounds ancient.) So I could communicate with a wide range of friends directly without it going through the State Department servers. I even used it to do business with some foreign leaders and some of the senior folks in the Department on their personal email accounts. I did the same thing on the road in hotels.
... There is a real danger. If it is public that you have a BlackBerry and it it [sic] government and you are using it, government or not, to do business, it may become an official record and subject to the law.

Yet the fact that Hillary Clinton emailed through a private server and didn’t use it to cover anything up is somehow the defining issue of her campaign. “My God,” people cry, “anyone else would be in jail!”

PausingFlatly · 23/10/2016 10:17

Sorry, lost the speech marks on the quote from Colin Powell about himself:

"I didn’t have a Blackberry. What I did do was have a personal computer that was hooked up to a private phone line (sounds ancient.) So I could communicate with a wide range of friends directly without it going through the State Department servers. I even used it to do business with some foreign leaders and some of the senior folks in the Department on their personal email accounts. I did the same thing on the road in hotels.
... There is a real danger. If it is public that you have a BlackBerry and it it [sic] government and you are using it, government or not, to do business, it may become an official record and subject to the law."

PausingFlatly · 23/10/2016 10:23

So what I heard is that people don't actually care about email servers.

What I heard is they just care about hating Hillary Clinton and will say any ol' shite if it sounds vaguely negative about her.

Aderyn2016 · 23/10/2016 10:24

I don't understand your point Pausing? That it's okay because others have done it? Any politician who breaks the law should be held accountable. The fact that people in the US know about Hillary's actions prior to the election is impacting on how they see her.

PausingFlatly · 23/10/2016 10:31

To repeat my point, people don't care about email servers. If they did, they would have cared about everyone's use of email servers. They manifestly don't.

So use of email servers is not WHY people hate Hillary.

Aderyn2016 · 23/10/2016 10:39

I think some people do care. They know about this prior to the election and it affects how they see her. I don't think it is the only thing they care about though. Standing by Bill has done her no favours imo. I just get the impression that the whole picture of Hillary is just a bit sleazy and she doesn't have sufficient charisma to overcome it. I don't know. I don't think it is as simple as Americans being anti the female candidate - If Michelle Obama ran, I think she'd be elected.

PausingFlatly · 23/10/2016 10:43

Ditto anything to do with Saudi.

In the hours after 9/11, during the complete ban on civilian flights which prevented even the head of MI6 from flying into the US, George W Bush arranged a special exemption for members of the Bin Laden family to fly out of the US.

Saudi oil chums, apparently.

Not only was GWB not sanctioned in any way for this, but the American people re-elected him.

So no, I don't think those same people are particularly bothered about links to Saudi Arabia. Never mind such tenuous ones as you've suggested.

NotDavidTennant · 23/10/2016 10:51

Clinton's problem is that to succeed in politics she'd had to develop a tough and dominant persona, but then that leaves her open to accusations that she's a bitch, a ball-breaker, heartless, etc. It's the catch-22 of all successful women in male-dominated professions.

Aderyn2016 · 23/10/2016 10:58

I think there are lots of things which on their own are not massive but when all put together make her unlikeable. I don't know though, am not American and have no real understanding of their priorities when it comes to voting. I am bemused that in a nation so huge their choice has come down to these two particular candidates.
Maybe it is the gun thing. Some Americans are very big on their right to own weapons, no matter how many kids get shot.
Or maybe it is as simple as not wanting another Clinton, having had 2 Bush presidents - it gives the impression that certain families just take it turns to be president, like it's a right. People get irritated with a candidate they perceive as 'entitled'. Could be all these things together. There is nothing about her which marks her out as special.

Lweji · 23/10/2016 11:09

The hatred of Hillary Clinton is baffling. It can't just be because she's a woman. Theresa May and Angela Merkel don't inspire the same feelings.

They are not in the US. Grin

But, for some reason HC has been disliked and put in her place, I'd say...by the establishment Wink..., since Bill got in power, when she was pushing for and working on a welfare bill.

She also comes across as a bit cold, distant and "educated" (can't think of a better word now).
She'd do better in Germany and the UK too than in the States, I think.

SukeyTakeItOffAgain · 23/10/2016 11:56

If Michelle Obama ran, I think she'd be elected.

Brilliant and kind and inspiring and clever and educated and awesome as Michelle is, I don't think at this time she would be elected. She's a woman who is black - a double whammy.

lljkk · 23/10/2016 12:27

My dad pointed out that the State Dept. Email servers have been hacked.
HC's emails have never gone public.
So she chose the more secure server. Daft choice, eh?

Bananabread123 · 23/10/2016 12:46

Must be a good time to invest in marriage counselling in the U.S. .... The differences between voting intentions of men and women are stark to the point there must literally be millions of marriages where the husband supports Trump and the wife Clinton!

Remembering how much angst there was where couples were on opposing sides on Brexit, and given this cuts to the core of male/female relationship in a way that Brexit didn't, surely there've got to be some major issues in relationships as a result of this?

Lweji · 23/10/2016 13:48

lljkk

Yes!

And many before her have used other servers.

The truth is that nothing is 100% secure. Particularly anything official with huge arrows pointing at it. An anonymous email account in the middle of millions of other emails, that only you know the password for, is probably safer.

BeALert · 23/10/2016 14:04

Trump supporters don't let their wives vote, silly :-)

BeALert · 23/10/2016 14:10

I don't understand your point Pausing? That it's okay because others have done it? Any politician who breaks the law should be held accountable. The fact that people in the US know about Hillary's actions prior to the election is impacting on how they see her.

The FYI have concluded she didn't break the law. I'm not sure therefore why you think she should be held accountable for breaking the law?

BeALert · 23/10/2016 14:10

FBI... Not FYI.

lljkk · 23/10/2016 14:19

ah, but FBI is a pawn of the establishment.... Bill had a 10 minute chat with some FBI person & that set FBI straight to let Crooked off the hook. (Shrug).

What a waste of public money it would be if Trump appointed a special prosecutor to go after HC.
tbh, the rest of Capital Hill should be horrified b/c an indepth investigation. It would start turning over stones & ending up criminalising everyone else's bad decisions, in Rep. party, too.

Bluesrunthegame · 23/10/2016 14:25

If Trump wins, he will eventually make a state visit to the UK and our queen will have to greet him, shake his hand, hold a banquet for him etc. I'm trying to imagine her face as she does this. Very glad it's her not me! All the palaces in the world wouldn't make up for that.

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