This is completely horrible

[whoisshe124]

NC'd obvs.

DDad died around 7 years ago. Strong character. Much missed. Died far too young (67). This is relevant.... He was self-made (think a lesser Alan Sugar, i.e. came from nothing, set up his own business, made it a success. Not gazillions, but business still strong and still going)

My mum has some wealth (because of dad's business. She's worked - she's been really successful - but not at the same level dad achieved.

I have young parents. Mum was around 65 when he died. They'd been together since she was 13. Very, very sad.

My DM is a bit amazing. (I would say that.... I love her to pieces!). She's a counsellor.

My mum befriends people. People love her. She's a friend (unofficial carer) to about a million people. There's someone she knows who is a social outcast to people who know him/his history. He's been through the courts twice, and has been shunned by people who know about it because of it. I'm not going to say what it was because it's outing, but it's sexual crimes against the vulnerable. My mum is his friend. After dad died, he's lived with her when he had no where else to go (for about a year and a half). She sees through the crimes that other people can't to the person beneath, and they get on really well and enjoy each other's company. He is a year older than me. and I fucking hate him. pervy, creepy fuck that he is, but not going to say this cos it derails my own thread and is outing to him. Not that he deserves any privacy!

Earlier this year their relationship moved on a level, and they're now a couple, although they keep this very quiet. I nearly started threads about it on here, because it is doing my head in, but I kind-of knew that MN would tell me it was none of my business, so I didn't. And my mum's older, but not old/old, and has the right to enjoy the rest of her life. it is very hard when she gets 'giddy' and excited though. BUT none of my business. I do get it's none of my business

I was talking to mum today about money, because we are skint. DH has recently taken early retirement, and I work almost full-time, and in a massively satisfying job, but one which doesn't pay well. We have (finally) achieved good work/life balance, but it's not enough to pay the bills, and we're worried about it. We are NOT on the breadline.... I work with people in poverty, and that's not us. We can't afford treats and holidays (boo-hoo us! I do appreciate people are in far worse situations). But DD's birthday is in November and Christmas is coming, and I honestly don't know how we're going to get through them (we will, but it will be hard. Not foodbank hard, but hard).

So far, so first world. I do get I'm being first-world!

I was talking to mum today, and I was telling her about this. My mum is wealthy (because of dad's business). So firstly, mum was offering to give me some of my inheritance early, and inherit less as a way to solve our immediate issues. I really don't want this (a) it breaks my heart to think of my mum dying and (b) at my age and stage, I think we should be dealing with this ourselves and finding our own solutions.

But, while we were talking about money, she had something to suggest to me. She said it came from the best place and out of kindness, but that she knew I wouldn't see it that way, but was going to tell me in any case.

When she dies (urrrrgh, urrrrgh, urrrgh. This breaks me!) me and my sister (who are NC) will inherit both a reasonable amount of money and property. And the business (which also comes with both). Her delightful BF has suggested that me and my (NC) sister will pay less inheritance tax if she gives some money to him which he has told her he will give to us.

I don't want to sound grabby. And I told mum it was her money, and she was welcome to give it all to the local cat's home if that was what she wanted.
But isn't this fucking cunt prick fleecing her? He's TOLD her he'll give it to us. But he's under no obligation to.

If he didn't, or if he put conditions on it, we'd have no chance to report him, because it's a tax dodge (and so illegal). It also means he'd stay in our lives, which I couldn't countenance (I fucking hate him,and would want nothing to do with him if mum wasn't around. I feel this is a way for him to stay in our lives)

This is very horrible and base. I'm ashamed about it, because I feel it's reducing my mum to what I'd potentially inherit from her, which is horrendous for me. I don't want to live in a world without her in it. With or without money.

But if this creep stays around, I promise I want nothing to do with him after mum dies. I don't want him to have a hold over me, potentially dishing out the occasional tenner if I'm nice to him.

How can I tell my mother I think he's a chancer who's fleecing her, when she's happy? And there's SO much back-story I'm not mentioning about my sister, who's made mum's life a misery.

This is just horrible!

You will avoid inheritance tax if your mum transfers property to you seven years or more before she dies.

If she transfers the property to this man, he has no obligation to pass it on to you after her death or after his death -- including if he signs something saying he will, makes you the beneficiary of his will, etc.

take [some of] the money now
see a solicitor for advice.

Definitely see a solicitor so you can discuss it with your mum with facts.

Your mother needs financial advice pronto. Though surely there are accountants attached to the business?

Her BF is talking bullshit. There is a maximum amount you (ie the children) can inherit without paying inheritance tax, when my dad died 15 years ago it was around £120,000. More than that I don't know.

Slightly off topic, but if your family are struggling to the extent they are why has your DH taken early retirement, is he not well?

In the meantime, your mum can also 'gift' money to her DC tax free, I think that's about £1500 a year.

tbh I am very surprised that your DM (who has run a succesful business) would even consider giving money to her bf to pass on to you. She should have accountants, tax advisers and solicitors that help run the business. Arrange meetings with all of them. Present it to your DM that she needs sound advice because she doesn't want to create problems for her bf when she dies which she might with insufficient planning.
In the meantime, your DH needs to reconsider his early retirement. You don't have a good work/life balance if you can't pay for birthdays and Christmas.
Also, take the money that your DM is offering to you just now but consider how best to use/invest it. Using it to pay daily living expenses because your DH wanted to retire early, may not be the best use of it.

When you're in love a lot of people can lose all sense. Plenty of women getting scammed by men not being who they re etc etc so it's Arellano a surprise and if she hadn't discussed it with her accountant, which I suspect she hasn't, then no one can advise her.

So it's hardly a surprise

A sex offender and a confidence trickster? Nice. Anyway, this is bullshit, but I think you know that. How exactly would him having the money save inheritance tax? Load of rubbish. Get your mum to make a will now (in case she marries him!) and explain that if she gives the money to him, and then he dies without having made a will, the money will go to his heirs and not to you and your sister. That shouldn't be too confrontational should it? You can make it sound like it's not him you don't trust, it's the system etc. Also, taking some of the money now is not you taking advantage of your mum, it's you protecting her from being fleeced. Assuming you didn't get any inheritance when your dad died, you can now inherit a combined amount of both their thresholds up to GBP650,000.00. The business doesn't need to form part of the estate for IHT, you can get business relief of up to 100% in some circumstances (obviously you'd have to get a v good tax expert to go through the details with you) and as others have said, an gift given to you now by your mum will not attract IHT if she survives (sorry to use that word!) for 7 years from date of gift. Her home could also be put in your name now too - you'd have to have an agreement to let her remain in the home.

In that case I would suggest she gives some of the money early to you and your sister (and only give him money early if she intends for him to inherit it anyway). There is no point in giving him money to then give to you!!!

I actually think it is better for people to pass on money while they are still alive so they can see their children benefiting from it (obviously if the person has enough money themselves anyway).

Get your mum to make a will now (in case she marries him!)

I'm no solicitor but my understanding is that will's made before marriage become nul and void upon marriage and a new will is needed. May be wrong but I'm sure that used to be the case.

If she does make a will, it will be revoked if she marries this guy anyway. And as others have said, the amount of IHT will be based on the value of estate, not who it is left to. You should encourage her to talk to a professional.

1. Take money now- he sounds like he is a con artist as well as sex offender, likes vulnerable victims and your mum will get more vulnerable as she gets older. He's lining this up for marriage and taking the lot.
2. Be wary of the fact that he is also trying to engineer a confrontation over money, with the intent of driving your mum further into his arms and making it easier for him to alienate her children. I knew someone whose mum was Ina similar situation- started off all Mr Nice Guy, until the mum had fallen out with her daughters, then he got more and more abusive to "break" the mum. Started keeping keeping large, aggressive dogs in the houses, emotional abuse to keep her in line, (daughter suspected physical abuse too but had no proof). He demanded to see, keep, regularly update a copy of a will that left him everything. Mum woke up at some point and rebelled enough to make another will (witnessed by sympathetic neighbours) that left everything to children, but cue long legal battle over which will should stand. Did eventually go to children but it was close run thing.
3. Get advice from a good accountant about getting the business put Ina trust or similar vehicle so that it is in tact for future generations- usually this is about age guarding it from the taxman, but it can be used to safeguard it from predatory partners too.
4. Be prepared for this man to play all kind of manipulative and abusive tricks, both directly on your mother and within your family. There are laws around safeguarding elders from financial coercion- don't think your mum is quite there yet, but he will get there. The interpersonal aspects of this are tricky, you'll know the situation best, but my general advice would be to avoid falling into any confrontation traps where he can isolate your mum from her family.

Good luck

isitjust If there's an agreement that dm can remain in the home i think that may make it a 'gift with reservation' and therefore may be ineffective to avoid iht - it's complicated and depends on variables like whether dm pays market rent (on which op would be liable for income tax potentially) - also there may be cgt implications. op and dm would need legal and tax advice on that.

In general, op if i were you i would suggest that dm sees a solicitor familiar with wills etc, and a tax accountant, to discuss all the options.

I would gratefully accept some inheritance now. Your dad has left a substantial legacy and I would suggest that you shouldn't need to be counting the pennies, given this. Also, there wI'll be a time when you don't have the family support from your mum that you do now; hundreds of thousands could disappear on care fees in addition to whatever happens with your mum's DP. Get yourself financially stable while you still have your mum.

YANBU- I admire you for your amazing reasonableness in this situation.

He has a history of exploiting vulnerable people. It sounds to me like your DM might fit that category because of the gap that losing your DDad has left in her life.

I think you need to watch him like a hawk - if he is after large lumps of inheritance, then he may also be pressuring her to give him smaller lumps of cash. I expect with his criminal history he will struggle to get work, but your DM might be helping him fund a lifestyle he thinks he deserves.

I think the only practical thing you can do is reiterate to your DM that you din't want her to do anything illegal, you don't want the money from her and your DDad to be tainted in anyway, and that she should get independent advice.

Yes, suggest to your mum that this would all be much easier to cope with if it was all wrapped up legally, with proper tax advice etc etc etc. Weep on her at the thought of her death, lay it on thick if you want to.

Get it sewn up. If she gives him money then it's done legally with his repayment promises included.

Powerpants the same thing happened to me. My dad died 3 years ago and it still pains me greatly.

you should talk to your mum but be very careful how u word it

happened with someone i know said they thought their df new partner was trying to inherit everything almight row and now they dont speak

Take the money now, and take her to see a solicitor.

Your Mum is incredibly destructive. she is playing you. She is doing it nicely and with a smile on her face, but ffs wake up.
She has sought out and befriended a sexual predator.
she has actively stirred up the shit with this incredibly 'naive' story.

Its bullshit,. She is a very nasty person by proxy. Protest that as much as you like, but she is a fake.

"Your dad has left a substantial legacy and I would suggest that you shouldn't need to be counting the pennies, given this."

But he could have left some to Op if he had wanted to.

Of course that doesn't mean that her mother can't give Op something if she wants to, but the legacy is hers, not Ops.

Do you think that on some level your mum does some doubts about his idea, and that's why she mentioned it to you?

Putting aside the fact that this man sounds vile and I would not want him anywhere near my family...

I can't see how giving him cash to give to you when your DM passes away could possibly reduce her tax bill either legally or illegally. Presumably his idea is that if her estate is reduced by £x then her inheritance tax bill will also be lower. How is paying the cash to him any better than paying it to you? If the idea is that you don't want to take the cash now then surely a better (and perfectly legal if you're in the UK) was to deal with it would be for her to put it in an account in your name (so it belongs to you legally) but you agree to only access it when she is no longer around. If you're in the UK, only gifts made within 7 years of death count in your inheritance tax estate. A much more sensible way to deal with these issues would be for you to discuss them with your DM and get some inheritance tax advice (I know it's hard but it will make it much easier to deal with when something happens and you are upset). For example, did you know that payments made even in the last 7 years before death can be exempt from inheritance tax if they are 'normal expenditure out of income'? This means payments (can be to you, the cat's home, grandchildren, anyone) which she can afford to make without eating in to her capital and which are not unusual for her. For example, if she did it regularly even relatively large birthday, anniversary, christmas gifts, regular payments for things for her grandchildren etc. There are perfectly legal ways to pay less inheritance tax without the risk of some dodgy bloke pocketing her hard earned money.

"My mum befriends people. People love her. She's a friend (unofficial carer) to about a million people."

Does she have any friends or just people she helps?

I'd take your Mum up on her kind and sensible suggestion of some of your inheritance NOW when you need it and she can see you (and her grandchildren) benefit from it (which is beneficial for her too).

I'd strongly suggest she makes a will.

Can you talk to her?
Tell her you don't want to be dealing with money troubles at the time of her passing?
Tell her you know she loves HIM and he loves her, but he is not really connected with you or sister and it seems unfair to give him the burden of being completely responsible for all that money?
Can she make a will NOW so that you can all grieve for her rather than have money worries after she has gone.
Then it will all be right and proper, tax will be paid as is right and you can all relax and 'forget about it'.

Good luck he sounds like he has a vile hold over her affections

squishy I also wondered if OP's Mother is having secret worries about leaving partner to dish out money. If OP queries it, it might allow Mother to change that plan without feeling disloyal to 'partner'.