This is completely horrible

[whoisshe124]

NC'd obvs.

DDad died around 7 years ago. Strong character. Much missed. Died far too young (67). This is relevant.... He was self-made (think a lesser Alan Sugar, i.e. came from nothing, set up his own business, made it a success. Not gazillions, but business still strong and still going)

My mum has some wealth (because of dad's business. She's worked - she's been really successful - but not at the same level dad achieved.

I have young parents. Mum was around 65 when he died. They'd been together since she was 13. Very, very sad.

My DM is a bit amazing. (I would say that.... I love her to pieces!). She's a counsellor.

My mum befriends people. People love her. She's a friend (unofficial carer) to about a million people. There's someone she knows who is a social outcast to people who know him/his history. He's been through the courts twice, and has been shunned by people who know about it because of it. I'm not going to say what it was because it's outing, but it's sexual crimes against the vulnerable. My mum is his friend. After dad died, he's lived with her when he had no where else to go (for about a year and a half). She sees through the crimes that other people can't to the person beneath, and they get on really well and enjoy each other's company. He is a year older than me. and I fucking hate him. pervy, creepy fuck that he is, but not going to say this cos it derails my own thread and is outing to him. Not that he deserves any privacy!

Earlier this year their relationship moved on a level, and they're now a couple, although they keep this very quiet. I nearly started threads about it on here, because it is doing my head in, but I kind-of knew that MN would tell me it was none of my business, so I didn't. And my mum's older, but not old/old, and has the right to enjoy the rest of her life. it is very hard when she gets 'giddy' and excited though. BUT none of my business. I do get it's none of my business

I was talking to mum today about money, because we are skint. DH has recently taken early retirement, and I work almost full-time, and in a massively satisfying job, but one which doesn't pay well. We have (finally) achieved good work/life balance, but it's not enough to pay the bills, and we're worried about it. We are NOT on the breadline.... I work with people in poverty, and that's not us. We can't afford treats and holidays (boo-hoo us! I do appreciate people are in far worse situations). But DD's birthday is in November and Christmas is coming, and I honestly don't know how we're going to get through them (we will, but it will be hard. Not foodbank hard, but hard).

So far, so first world. I do get I'm being first-world!

I was talking to mum today, and I was telling her about this. My mum is wealthy (because of dad's business). So firstly, mum was offering to give me some of my inheritance early, and inherit less as a way to solve our immediate issues. I really don't want this (a) it breaks my heart to think of my mum dying and (b) at my age and stage, I think we should be dealing with this ourselves and finding our own solutions.

But, while we were talking about money, she had something to suggest to me. She said it came from the best place and out of kindness, but that she knew I wouldn't see it that way, but was going to tell me in any case.

When she dies (urrrrgh, urrrrgh, urrrgh. This breaks me!) me and my sister (who are NC) will inherit both a reasonable amount of money and property. And the business (which also comes with both). Her delightful BF has suggested that me and my (NC) sister will pay less inheritance tax if she gives some money to him which he has told her he will give to us.

I don't want to sound grabby. And I told mum it was her money, and she was welcome to give it all to the local cat's home if that was what she wanted.
But isn't this fucking cunt prick fleecing her? He's TOLD her he'll give it to us. But he's under no obligation to.

If he didn't, or if he put conditions on it, we'd have no chance to report him, because it's a tax dodge (and so illegal). It also means he'd stay in our lives, which I couldn't countenance (I fucking hate him,and would want nothing to do with him if mum wasn't around. I feel this is a way for him to stay in our lives)

This is very horrible and base. I'm ashamed about it, because I feel it's reducing my mum to what I'd potentially inherit from her, which is horrendous for me. I don't want to live in a world without her in it. With or without money.

But if this creep stays around, I promise I want nothing to do with him after mum dies. I don't want him to have a hold over me, potentially dishing out the occasional tenner if I'm nice to him.

How can I tell my mother I think he's a chancer who's fleecing her, when she's happy? And there's SO much back-story I'm not mentioning about my sister, who's made mum's life a misery.

This is just horrible!

Goodness, just read ZazieCats advice. Ignore me, listen to her!

He is a horrible chance. I would tax avoid completely legally by taking a much as she is willing to give now. Offset your mortgage and stop worrying about Christmas.

"But he could have left some to Op if he wanted... the legacy is hers, not Ops."

This assumes that the OP's DD would have for seen this scenario. I was talking from the point of fairness, not legality.

But they are counting pennies because Op's husband has retired.

Well there's an obvious solution to that!

Presumably even if this man wasn't on the scene posters would be telling Op to take the money know when she needs it?

OP, you've received so much good advice on here, particularly on the legal side, that there's not much to add. Recently, in one of the Sunday money pages there was an article about this form of tax avoidance – basically never do anything to avoid tax illegally, not only will HMRC take action now, but your details will be 'marked' for constant checks for a long time.

If you can have a conversation, perhaps on the following lines, 'Mum, seriously I can't believe you want me to do something illegal, even more so when it comes from someone with a criminal record. It may come with love but I'll be worried sick forever …'

JellyBelli's first sentence is spot on.

Stay strong.

You've had lots of good advice.

Can I add one thing. Can she keep any important legal documents such as wills or property deeds etc., at a safe location, for example at her solicitors, in case such documents get "lost/destroyed" if anything happens to her.

I suspect he will push for marriage.

sorry but this is freaking me out a bit.....sexual crimes against vunerable people....like raping people in care homes or what?

Its insane

It's practical to discuss people's wishes and Wills tbh. I think your attitude about it is a bit ridiculous.

Your DH shouldn't have retired. You can't afford it.

Take the money that's being offered. He won't give you a penny. Does your mum honestly believe he will? Is she that gullible and naive?

How awful for you. Not surprised you're upset.

However, is it possible that this is your mum's way of gently breaking in the news that they're thinking of getting married?

Forget about the inheritance tax stuff, this is a red herring as you'll get less anyway if your mum marries this man and he inherits her estate.

it actually sounds to me that she has considered it all - I'm sure she's not stupid - and wants to share her wealth with her new partner.

Personally I think the only thing that might sway her is the reminder that it was your dad who built up the estate and so morally the beneficiaries would be his wife and children, and not some random stranger he'd never met.

Did you receive anything from your father's estate when he died?

My elderly father has taken up with a woman who molested kids.
My mother is shacked up with a sex offender.

this is madness

Say to your Mum that her suggestion about helping you now is a good one, a helpful one, and one that you really appreciate.

Say that as she has started to think about inheritance tax, it could be a good idea to go to an accountant together and discuss how giving you money could be done in the most helpful way.

Suggest that you discuss with a professional advisor how she can best manage her assets in terms of her will.

She could be giving you and your sister a lot now, rather than giving it to a man who is certainly intent on fleecing her. He probably wouldn't even wait until she died, once he had her money in his grubby fist. He will just disappear. Unless he does manage to marry her in which case he will encourage her to change her will and inherit her whole estate.

She needs to know that she can give you money and assets now - or have them put in trust. Knowledge is power - for her. Tell her you want her to be well informed and should therefore seek professional advice.

I wonder if he does start pushing for marriage, if there's some way you can suggest to your mum that she tell him that she's signed everything over to you, and you give her a monthly stipend.... Maybe it's a story you read in the paper a few years ago about a woman in her 50s befriended by a man 20 years younger, who discoved she'd already disposed of her estate and who then dumped her stealing her jewellery, or something. I dunno, something which could persuade her subtlely to tell him and take the risk of not seeing him for dust. After all, if he still wants to marry her when she owns nothing but the agreed upon sum you give her monthly then she can be comfortable that he probably really does love her....

Inheritance aside, you're worried about paying bills. Why do you work "almost" full-time, and can your DH really afford to retire early? It sounds like you could do a lot to help yourselves

OMG, MN. 6 pages of comments. Thank you so, so much. I've been reading for, like, nearly 2 hours. Thank you so much to everyone, except the person who said my lovely mum is a fake. She isn't.

and thanks to everyone who's shared a similar or similar ish story/experience. I've noted them all, and I'm sorry for your loss. I'm horrified by the suggestions that he might try and marry her/she'd go for it. I note those. I think (hope!) it's a million miles away, but it's on my radar now!!!!

Thanks to all for legal advice and all the suggestions for how to move forward.

All taken on board. They're all in my head, and I'll use them when I next talk to DM (not talked to her today, but due to in the morning)

To try and respond to some of the themes that have come up...

I actually have contacted my NC Dsis today (this is SUCH a big deal.... we've not spoken in years!), and we have had communications about this. she has said she agrees with my approach (which is to say to DM I don't want to do anything illegal, I don't want to be beholden to creepy fucker [can't bring myself to call him her "bf"] nor do I want to be in a situation where I have to have contact with him, particularly when mum isn't around, and finally to say what I've learned here about how giving him money doesn't avoid IHT). (my DH had suspected similar, so it's been very good to have had that confirmed. Thanks again).
I don't know what DSis thinks of creepy fucker.
I'm pleased that I do now know that anything I say to DM comes (more or less) with DSis's blessing/agreement. I think this is important because it affects her as much as it affects me, so I didn't want to go back to DM if there was a risk she felt differently. So this is something I'm very glad I now know.

DM absolutely knows how I feel about creepy fucker. She knew how I felt when they were just friends, and understands how this has moved onto a whole new level (for me) now they are more than friends. (eg, I used to be civil with him, boarding on jovial. I've now (since they have been lurvers) told her I never want to see him again, and won't visit her if he's there. Or, as little as I can manage).

Creepy fucker was never one of her clients. She has known him for years. Probably most of his life . She is friends with his mum . However, she has done a lot of counselling with people who are on sex offenders register, so she is very used to seeing beyond the horror of that particular crime and giving empathy to the person. I'm not saying this for a fact, but I suspect that is why she was able to be friends with creepy when he was generally being shunned by everyone else, and could see beyond the atrocity and appreciate other qualities. Back when they were just friends, I could (with a stretch) get this. The world ISN'T black v white, is it. Not all bad people have moustaches to twirl and an evil laugh - that's like saying buglers are dressed in black and white stripes with a bag reading "swag" over their shoulders! I don't like him, but I could appreciate why mum did. Taking it to this level though.... eurrrgh! But, you know... he's bright. He's got a quirky sense of humour. He can show great empathy. In my head, I can't list those qualities without also adding "monster", but mum clearly can.

I mentioned the age of 65 in my OP. To be clear, my mum isn't 65, that was her approx age when DDad died. Actually, she was younger than that, because she isn't 70 yet. But she's approaching it fast.

There's been a theme of asking why my DH is early-retired and saying he shouldn't be if we're struggling for money, and some suggestions he should 'step up'. My DH is older than me. He worked 20+ years in a high-stress, well paid job. It was beginning to break him. He was getting ill (and he's already a cancer survivor, so he's not had it easy!). He had an opportunity to take early retirement with a big pay-off, and with my blessing, he took it. He does work, but it's low stress and low paid and part time. He honestly deserves this (my DM also agrees with this - he has done his whack, and has def previously brought home the bacon. He is now allowed to step back a bit and not let his health suffer). The issue is me. I used to have a job which was quite well paid (although I was at the lower end of the pay scale. Think 25 - 35k), but it was making me miserable, and we were having to farm out DD a lot. Plus after DD was born I went part-time, so earned even less. DH suggested that as he was now being promoted to a point he was making serious money, I take on a lesser job which gave me more time because we could afford it and = less stressed me and more time/attention for DD. (I think he hoped more relaxed sex for him. Like that was ever going to happen....). The discussion/agreement with him was that he would earn big bucks for a while and then retire early-ish, and then my turn to step up and his to take more care of DD.
When he took the redundancy deal he did say that the money wouldn't last forever, and I would need to do more. This is all a mutually agreed thing.
The problem is that I fucking love my job. And HE loves that I love my job. AND it fits in with DD's care (not that she needs as much now as she's a teen).
I'm also not especially qualified. So not sure what better paid job I'd waltz into, and would be sad to give up what I've got. And DH would be sad if I gave it up, and DM would be sad if I gave it up. I really am that happy and satisfied by what I do. AND it works for the running of our house, looking after DD. This is why I said we've got the work/life balance right. Sadly, it doesn't pay enough of the bills. But it's hard for me to contemplate walking away from a job I love to one I won't love as much for more money (assuming (a) that job even exists and (b) they'd hire me in any case!). That we are skint is my bad, not his. But I don't want to give up my job!!!!!!

To (almost everyone) who said I should take the money. It wasn't a hard and fast offer, it was said very casually. I note the comments about how much money care takes up. I would want mum to have the best care money can buy if and when she ever needs it (and I don't have any money!) Don't most children want that for their parents? Actually, I'd want her to live here, and I've suggested it several times. But not sure that's what she wants (and do I want creepy fucker round here???? Guess my answer!)

Another issue for me is that the money/estate my mum has is because of my dad. HE was the breadwinner. But he couldn't have done that without the support of my mum. So I'm not comfortable with going to her and saying "this is dad's money, and he wouldn't have wanted creepy fucker to have it". Dad knew creepy fucker. He thought creepy fucker was was creepy fucker (because he IS a creepy fucker.

p.s. to the person who asked if mum has friends who are actual friends and not people she cares for.

Yes - loads. They do mutual helping and all sorts!

btw, whilst I think creepy fucker would take whatever money he can, and he might manipulate to get some/more, I DON'T think he's a con artist (fgs, isn't sex offender enough!)

I think (hope) he's a chancer and vile, and would take what he can get. But I bloody hope he's not just in it to fleece her. He was LONELY and ostracised and mum was nice to him, and they were (honestly) great friends. A proper friendship. It was mum that took it to the next level (sex) and not him. I HOPE he didn't want to lose her/loved her enough to go for it. I don't know what he gets sexually from their now sexual relationship.

He is a very isolated person, his relationship with mum makes him less isolated. I might be naive to suggest this, but I hope he is having sex with my mother (eurrgh) in order to be less isolated, ostracised and alone. I don't THINK his agenda is fleecing her, although it might be useful secondary thing to him. In my head is a scenario where he appreciates and relies on her, and then she made a move on him and he loses more by saying 'no', so he says yes. I think he does love her (he bloody should, she's been amazing for him). I don't know whether or not he fancies her. My mum is loving the sex.

This guy is a loser. I see him more as a sad fuck who'd appreciate any crumb he's given (including sex from a woman 20 years older than himself) than an actual scammer. I might be naive in that.

God, I hate him!

Don't feel the need to validate or explain your or your dh's position.

I'm just in awe of how you're coping with your Mother's relationship. I had a similar circumstance with my mother and watched her have four children with the vile, revolting, perverted piece of shit her partner after my Dad.

He's since skipped the country and is banned in many others.

Don't fell grabby either. I like to think if I had an error of judgement in my life (I've had many before ) that ds would make the right choices for himself. He's what counts.

OP did really need to explain her DHs postions.

On the face of it the situation was "DH took early retirement, and we can't afford to do anything other than pay bills"

It rather implied he wasn't working.

OP I too am amazed by how well you're coping with this.

I'm wondering about your Mum purchasing an annuity for her future care that creepy fucker wouldn't be able to get his hands on?

Also, I wonder how your Mum responds when you bring up the issue of his past crimes? Is she at all open to leaving this relationship and looking for a new one?

So how old is your DH now and does he work at all?

I agree not all people are baddies or goodies, of course. Some things are just a complete NO.

If that persons crimes are so great that they have been taken to court twice, we are talking serious here.

I work in a setting where such people may well be in the crowd we see. I would never begin a relationship with them. I am wondering how your mum managed to cross the boundaries with this man as there are strict rules about the client/counsellor relationship.

I guess this is history but I find it troubling.

Leaving some money to him won't actually reduce any inheritance tax unless they are married.

OK, OP, I get that there are nuances, people not all bad etc, but in your sense that he is not a con-artist or out to fleece, bear in mind that it was HIM who suggested to her that she could give money to him, on a completely spurious basis of avoiding Inheritance Tax.

I honestly cannot imagine anyone with loving or good intentions making such a suggestion. I can imagine someone coming up with a genuinely watertight scheme to help, but this one is not accurate, not effective and simply puts cash into his hands - and HE made the suggestion.

Think on.

I really envy your ability to step back and explain things so objectively - you probably don't think that you do that, but you do.

I hope that your mum, when you mention getting things done legally, sees your pov as plainly as you see hers, and that you then can get things thrashed out and wrapped up so you are all protected sufficiently. As there are gc, if your mum is like you in her ability to cut through emotional turmoil and look at things plainly, it does bode well.

Glad you have spoken to your sister.

Is your Mother still a counseller? Does she counsel abuse survivors?
Have you reported her relationship to where shw works?