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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

This is completely horrible

281 replies

whoisshe124 · 05/10/2016 23:51

NC'd obvs.

DDad died around 7 years ago. Strong character. Much missed. Died far too young (67). This is relevant.... He was self-made (think a lesser Alan Sugar, i.e. came from nothing, set up his own business, made it a success. Not gazillions, but business still strong and still going)

My mum has some wealth (because of dad's business. She's worked - she's been really successful - but not at the same level dad achieved.

I have young parents. Mum was around 65 when he died. They'd been together since she was 13. Very, very sad.

My DM is a bit amazing. (I would say that.... I love her to pieces!). She's a counsellor.

My mum befriends people. People love her. She's a friend (unofficial carer) to about a million people. There's someone she knows who is a social outcast to people who know him/his history. He's been through the courts twice, and has been shunned by people who know about it because of it. I'm not going to say what it was because it's outing, but it's sexual crimes against the vulnerable. My mum is his friend. After dad died, he's lived with her when he had no where else to go (for about a year and a half). She sees through the crimes that other people can't to the person beneath, and they get on really well and enjoy each other's company. He is a year older than me. and I fucking hate him. pervy, creepy fuck that he is, but not going to say this cos it derails my own thread and is outing to him. Not that he deserves any privacy!

Earlier this year their relationship moved on a level, and they're now a couple, although they keep this very quiet. I nearly started threads about it on here, because it is doing my head in, but I kind-of knew that MN would tell me it was none of my business, so I didn't. And my mum's older, but not old/old, and has the right to enjoy the rest of her life. it is very hard when she gets 'giddy' and excited though. BUT none of my business. I do get it's none of my business

I was talking to mum today about money, because we are skint. DH has recently taken early retirement, and I work almost full-time, and in a massively satisfying job, but one which doesn't pay well. We have (finally) achieved good work/life balance, but it's not enough to pay the bills, and we're worried about it. We are NOT on the breadline.... I work with people in poverty, and that's not us. We can't afford treats and holidays (boo-hoo us! I do appreciate people are in far worse situations). But DD's birthday is in November and Christmas is coming, and I honestly don't know how we're going to get through them (we will, but it will be hard. Not foodbank hard, but hard).

So far, so first world. I do get I'm being first-world!

I was talking to mum today, and I was telling her about this. My mum is wealthy (because of dad's business). So firstly, mum was offering to give me some of my inheritance early, and inherit less as a way to solve our immediate issues. I really don't want this (a) it breaks my heart to think of my mum dying and (b) at my age and stage, I think we should be dealing with this ourselves and finding our own solutions.

But, while we were talking about money, she had something to suggest to me. She said it came from the best place and out of kindness, but that she knew I wouldn't see it that way, but was going to tell me in any case.

When she dies (urrrrgh, urrrrgh, urrrgh. This breaks me!) me and my sister (who are NC) will inherit both a reasonable amount of money and property. And the business (which also comes with both). Her delightful BF has suggested that me and my (NC) sister will pay less inheritance tax if she gives some money to him which he has told her he will give to us.

I don't want to sound grabby. And I told mum it was her money, and she was welcome to give it all to the local cat's home if that was what she wanted.
But isn't this fucking cunt prick fleecing her? He's TOLD her he'll give it to us. But he's under no obligation to.

If he didn't, or if he put conditions on it, we'd have no chance to report him, because it's a tax dodge (and so illegal). It also means he'd stay in our lives, which I couldn't countenance (I fucking hate him,and would want nothing to do with him if mum wasn't around. I feel this is a way for him to stay in our lives)

This is very horrible and base. I'm ashamed about it, because I feel it's reducing my mum to what I'd potentially inherit from her, which is horrendous for me. I don't want to live in a world without her in it. With or without money.

But if this creep stays around, I promise I want nothing to do with him after mum dies. I don't want him to have a hold over me, potentially dishing out the occasional tenner if I'm nice to him.

How can I tell my mother I think he's a chancer who's fleecing her, when she's happy? And there's SO much back-story I'm not mentioning about my sister, who's made mum's life a misery.

This is just horrible!

OP posts:
Witchend · 06/10/2016 07:17

It won't make any difference will it? I thought inheritance tax goes on the total amount to give not who gets what.

And if she's planning to give it before she dies you can only give away a small amount before you're taxed on it, and if she does in the 7years after she's given it you have to pay inheritance tax on it anyway.
I think.

saintagur · 06/10/2016 07:25

What a horrible situation. I don't think you are being 'grabby' at all. Why would you want your parents' hard earned money to go to somebody else, especially a pervert who is clearly out for all he can get.

I agree with all those who say accept graciously whatever your DM offers. Also, difficult though it may be, please try to hide your revulsion from the 'enemy within'. Be aware that she may leave everything to him, especially if she dies and doesn't make a will.

A consultation with a solicitor about estate planning sounds like an excellent idea. I also agree that you should involve your DSIS if possible. Is the creep anything to do with why she is NC?

acasualobserver · 06/10/2016 07:29

Any good friend would tell you to accept your mother's offer of inheriting now. I hope you do.

00100001 · 06/10/2016 07:34

If money is so tight, why doesn't DH go a and get a job? Confused

SouthWestmom · 06/10/2016 07:35

Bear in mind he may be able to challenge any will leaving everything to you if he can demonstrate he was financially dependent on your mother for a material length of time.

I'd have an honest conversation with your mum:

Ditsy4 · 06/10/2016 07:35

Your mum can give a lump sum of £3,000 a year to someone( your sister and you) and as many gifts of £250 as she wants. A relative did this to reduce a family estate. My sisters and I started getting £3,000 every four years and we were so grateful for it while raising our families.
Let your mum help you. Our relative was so pleased to help and we were left the rest as her husband died before her.
I agree take mum to a financial advisor and she will find out the truth. Then a solicitor. Why not make your own will too and suggest you both go and do it. Perhaps that way you won't feel upset about it. No one likes to think about it but my dad didn't get around to making a new will ( told us he was making provision)and owed us a lot ( for us) of money from a business he and my husband were in. It caused a lot of difficulty.

brasty · 06/10/2016 07:38

Whether you accept money now or not, I would say to her that she should not be trying to avoid inheritance tax. That inheritance tax helps pay for services for vulnerable people. Because it sounds like she will be fleeced of some money anyway to avoid inheritance tax. The key is not to try and avoid it.
As an aside, I am surprised your DH has retired early if you are struggling financially. This is usually an option taken by those who are financially secure.

ScarlettDarling · 06/10/2016 07:40

How does your dm reconcile the fact that the man she's in love with is a sex offender? She sounds like an intelligent, sensitive woman...how can she be with someone like that? I'm asking this because it sounds to me that your mum is actually lonely and vulnerable and he has somehow managed to wangle his way into her life.

You need to tell her in no uncertain terms that anything that smacks of a tax dodge is not acceptable to you and that you feel very uncomfortable and unhappy with the idea. I'd also suggest to her that she thinks about making a will, and then can put all of these thoughts of inheritance etc out of her mind because it's been sorted.

I'm sorry you're having to go through this. Yes, it is horrible. Your skin must crawl every time you think of your mum being with such a vile person. Hope you get things sorted soon.

brasty · 06/10/2016 07:42

Also, even though he is a sex offender and I understand you would want to avoid him, your DM may decide to leave some of her money to him. The longer they are together, the more likely this is. So maybe something to get your head around.

boo2410 · 06/10/2016 07:42

As others have said, go to a financial advisor to get proper advice about finances and how to minimise inheritance tax. Take any money she offers you as she wants you to have it now and she would much rather see you making good use of it now. Her "partner" will not, I'm sure, pass on money to you. He's a scumbag and I am sorry that your Mum doesn't see this, she is obviously too nice and kind. Good luck.Flowers

Charlie97 · 06/10/2016 07:48

Firstly this is not a tax dodge, IHT gifting is perfectly legal!

However, you'll pay less IHT? Yes you will, you miss paying 40% in each pound above the Nil rate band (joint), but by my calculation ....you still receive 60%. So, by gifting it, she is not saving you 40p she's taking away 60P!

Clearly, he is manipulating your mother, going to fleece her and you.

Maybe, you and sister need to join forces. Show solidarity against him!

Ineverpromisedyouarosegarden · 06/10/2016 07:51

Your Mum can also gift £3000 in each tax year with no tax implications. It does need to be done properly though and records kept. She could do £1500 each to you and your sister.

rollonthesummer · 06/10/2016 07:51

He is fleecing. Take the money now.

I know quite a few friends whose parents have given them property/money already and the 7 years is already up.

Charlie97 · 06/10/2016 07:55

nd if she's planning to give it before she dies you can only give away a small amount before you're taxed on it, and if she does in the 7years after she's given it you have to pay inheritance tax on it anyway.
I think.

Your mother can give away as much as she likes, it gets the 7 year clock ticking! Assuming she lives 7 years it is outside her estate.

BUT, it is not always recommended your mother is relatively young, she may well need it! Care home fees? Not cheap!

She can do IHT planning that gives her access to the capital but the growth is outside the estate.

She needs to see an adviser now! They would discourage a large amount of outright gifting her age.

Caper86 · 06/10/2016 07:56

Why give the money to him to give to you? Why not just straight to you?

MrsRedFly · 06/10/2016 07:57

My parents are both alive & well have given all DC money (for deposit on buying a house) they would rather give money now when we all have young families & 'need' it most than wait til they die.
It's not uncommon & they didn't want to see DC struggle when they have the means & ability to help.

My advice would be to accept money now from DMum.

Gatehouse77 · 06/10/2016 07:58

I would strongly suggest your Mum sees someone about writing a will.

The money could go into a trust for you and your sister and it would/could be exempt from inheritance tax.
Equally, if she gives you some money now the amount of IT will taper over the next 7 years so, if she is expected to live longer than that, then there will be no IT to pay.

The BFs suggestion send alarm bells ringing - massively!

I know it's a difficult conversation but I think you need to find a solicitor to talk through the ins and outs of her will, how to provide and about getting Lasting Power of Attorney papers (for you and your sister, maybe, but not BF) in place. They cannot be invoked unless your mother is deemed incapacitated.

Gatehouse77 · 06/10/2016 08:01

Oh, and if you do go the way of a trust think carefully about who the trustees are and the type of trust.
IME, and I know this is very biased, DON'T get a discretionary trust but one with a specific end date.

Realitybitesyourbum · 06/10/2016 08:05

Early retirement is for people who can afford it. You don't sound like you can. Your dh should get a job and not rely on other people's money.

Of course, the rest is as everyone else says.

Somerville · 06/10/2016 08:07

I'm normally a firm advocate of accepting somebody who has lost their spouse finding love or companionship again.
But a man much younger than her who has convictions for sex crimes?
No way.
Would your dad want her in this relationship?
Doubt it very much.

Saying that, I'm not sure what you can do about it without risking alienating her.

But do make the point to her, as PP's have said, that inheritance tax is on the estate, not on how much is left to different individuals.
So his plan would only work if they were married.
Maybe that's his play? Getting her liking the idea and then announcing they have to get married quickly?
I'd get in there first with that information if I were you.
Try to keep very factual about it all and not emotional or personal.

And of course you can't ask for money early. But if she offered, take her up on it! The less money in her estate the less vulnerable she is to his machinations.

RhiWrites · 06/10/2016 08:07

Your mum sounds like a very kind person and I get that you don't want to burst her bubble but I think you should tell her:

"Mum after you're gone I won't be pursuing any kind of relationship/friendship with X. You can leave your money as you wish but if you leave it to him I will consider it his." You can leave the "and so will he you deluded woman" part silent.

On a related note, now is exactly the right time for her to consider a bequest to you. It's a reasonable and common practice. There's no shame in accepting her money now when it will come to you anyway.

notagiraffe · 06/10/2016 08:08

OP, in your circumstances I'd be 100% honest with my mother and say: I know you love him and he seems to make you happy. But he has committed sexual crimes against vulnerable people. This means I know for a fact that he is happy to take advantage of people and use their vulnerability for his own ends. So I don't trust him, and I'd be deeply unhappy at that arrangement. It's your money. You do what you like with it, but I want you to recognise that if you give it to him, it's his and we will never see it. If that's what you want, that's up to you. But if you want us to have it, give it directly to us. And bear in mind that my lovely dad earned it and worked hard all his life to provide for his own family not for some sexual predator who is in and out of jail.

That's what I'd say.

brasty · 06/10/2016 08:15

And yes, she is still young so needs to make sure she keeps enough money for herself.
I have known people like your mum. Massively kind, but easily taken advantage of by unscrupulous people. And I actually wonder if some of that has been passed on to you. I can't get over that you are struggling financially, but your DH has retired early - unless there are health reasons. It sounds like he could be taking advantage of you.

snakesalive · 06/10/2016 08:16

O mg...how can yr mum be so stupid..she needs saving from herself

JackShit · 06/10/2016 08:19

Agree with 00100001 - if finances are likely to be tight early retirement isnt the best option. Can DH not get a job?

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