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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

This is completely horrible

281 replies

whoisshe124 · 05/10/2016 23:51

NC'd obvs.

DDad died around 7 years ago. Strong character. Much missed. Died far too young (67). This is relevant.... He was self-made (think a lesser Alan Sugar, i.e. came from nothing, set up his own business, made it a success. Not gazillions, but business still strong and still going)

My mum has some wealth (because of dad's business. She's worked - she's been really successful - but not at the same level dad achieved.

I have young parents. Mum was around 65 when he died. They'd been together since she was 13. Very, very sad.

My DM is a bit amazing. (I would say that.... I love her to pieces!). She's a counsellor.

My mum befriends people. People love her. She's a friend (unofficial carer) to about a million people. There's someone she knows who is a social outcast to people who know him/his history. He's been through the courts twice, and has been shunned by people who know about it because of it. I'm not going to say what it was because it's outing, but it's sexual crimes against the vulnerable. My mum is his friend. After dad died, he's lived with her when he had no where else to go (for about a year and a half). She sees through the crimes that other people can't to the person beneath, and they get on really well and enjoy each other's company. He is a year older than me. and I fucking hate him. pervy, creepy fuck that he is, but not going to say this cos it derails my own thread and is outing to him. Not that he deserves any privacy!

Earlier this year their relationship moved on a level, and they're now a couple, although they keep this very quiet. I nearly started threads about it on here, because it is doing my head in, but I kind-of knew that MN would tell me it was none of my business, so I didn't. And my mum's older, but not old/old, and has the right to enjoy the rest of her life. it is very hard when she gets 'giddy' and excited though. BUT none of my business. I do get it's none of my business

I was talking to mum today about money, because we are skint. DH has recently taken early retirement, and I work almost full-time, and in a massively satisfying job, but one which doesn't pay well. We have (finally) achieved good work/life balance, but it's not enough to pay the bills, and we're worried about it. We are NOT on the breadline.... I work with people in poverty, and that's not us. We can't afford treats and holidays (boo-hoo us! I do appreciate people are in far worse situations). But DD's birthday is in November and Christmas is coming, and I honestly don't know how we're going to get through them (we will, but it will be hard. Not foodbank hard, but hard).

So far, so first world. I do get I'm being first-world!

I was talking to mum today, and I was telling her about this. My mum is wealthy (because of dad's business). So firstly, mum was offering to give me some of my inheritance early, and inherit less as a way to solve our immediate issues. I really don't want this (a) it breaks my heart to think of my mum dying and (b) at my age and stage, I think we should be dealing with this ourselves and finding our own solutions.

But, while we were talking about money, she had something to suggest to me. She said it came from the best place and out of kindness, but that she knew I wouldn't see it that way, but was going to tell me in any case.

When she dies (urrrrgh, urrrrgh, urrrgh. This breaks me!) me and my sister (who are NC) will inherit both a reasonable amount of money and property. And the business (which also comes with both). Her delightful BF has suggested that me and my (NC) sister will pay less inheritance tax if she gives some money to him which he has told her he will give to us.

I don't want to sound grabby. And I told mum it was her money, and she was welcome to give it all to the local cat's home if that was what she wanted.
But isn't this fucking cunt prick fleecing her? He's TOLD her he'll give it to us. But he's under no obligation to.

If he didn't, or if he put conditions on it, we'd have no chance to report him, because it's a tax dodge (and so illegal). It also means he'd stay in our lives, which I couldn't countenance (I fucking hate him,and would want nothing to do with him if mum wasn't around. I feel this is a way for him to stay in our lives)

This is very horrible and base. I'm ashamed about it, because I feel it's reducing my mum to what I'd potentially inherit from her, which is horrendous for me. I don't want to live in a world without her in it. With or without money.

But if this creep stays around, I promise I want nothing to do with him after mum dies. I don't want him to have a hold over me, potentially dishing out the occasional tenner if I'm nice to him.

How can I tell my mother I think he's a chancer who's fleecing her, when she's happy? And there's SO much back-story I'm not mentioning about my sister, who's made mum's life a misery.

This is just horrible!

OP posts:
ChequeOff · 06/10/2016 01:05

Totally get where you're coming from OP.

On a practical level, it really depends on how much your DM is suggesting as part of your inheritance right now v the whole estate.

Also bear in mind that any amount given now becomes tax exempt after 7 years as long as the is still alive so legally it makes sense for you to accept any inheritance right now.

RedBullBlood · 06/10/2016 01:05

Tell her straight that you have no wish to be part of a tax dodge. Even if the bloke has every intention of passing on the money it's not right.

SplendidPanda · 06/10/2016 01:12

Your mum did not pay IHT when she inherited from your dad, but you will pay 40% on everything above above the limit (£320,000?)

Provided that it's correct your dad transferred everything to your mum - when your mum passes her wealth onto you and your sister you can use both your mum and dad's tax free inheritance limit (I.e. assets worth up to £650,000 should be passes on tax free).

That sounds like a lot of money but as other posters have said, taking property into account will eat it up pretty quickly.

Regarding inheritance tax on the business, dependent on the specifics your mum may qualify for "business tax relief" which could exempt 50-100% of the business from inheritance tax.

It would definitely be worth your mum setting up a meeting with her accountants and getting some proper advice on inheritance tax and (totally legal!) tax planning to reduce the bill.

SteamTrainsRealAleandOpenFires · 06/10/2016 01:14

OP is the business still in the family?.
If its still in the family, would it be possible to take it over say for a nominal fee of 1£?. so people won't lose their jobs et cetera
Or was it sold earlier on, before your Dad passed away.?

Sorry for the questions Blush.

SplendidPanda · 06/10/2016 01:16

Oh and to add - it seems that essentially what the waste of space boyfriend is him acting as a trustee of your inheritance but without proper legal backing etc. Why not consider setting up an actual trust? Another thing to ask the accountants about.

Collaborate · 06/10/2016 01:23

Giving part of your inheritance to her boyfriend won't reduce your IHT bill (in fact the estate has to pay the bill).

To that's a scam from the start.

Datun · 06/10/2016 01:24

Go online or ask an accountant about the tax implications and how to minimise them.

Can your mum leave a small amount to this man in her will ? To salve her conscience and keep him off your back ?

I would back her as far as you can, but make suggestions to minimise his involvement.

ShmooBooMoo · 06/10/2016 01:30

Any chance of getting back in touch with your sister? I think you need to get together (if poss) to convince mum that this is not a good idea!

Tartyflette · 06/10/2016 01:33

If your DM gives money to her BF it will absolutely NOT have any impact on IHT, unless they are married. So that line is bollocks. She can give away any amount she likes, so long as she lives for another 7 years after making the gift.

(And the IHT limit when the second spouse dies has now been doubled, i.e to £650,000. A surviving spouse does not pay IHT when their DH/DW dies so your DM inherited money tax-free when your DF died. When she dies the first £650,000 of her estate is IHT-free. But I do not know what would happen about that limit if she marries again )

If she marries this man any existing will she made is no longer valid -- if she does marry him she would need to make a new will after the marriage.

You can accept money gifts of any amount from her now but if it is above a fairly small amount (£3,000? Pse check) and she dies within the following seven years it will still be included in her estate for IHT purposes.
Think she needs to consult a solicitor (she might want to leave the BF something in her will but I hope she would want to protect the bulk of her estate, for her children and grandchildren. )

EverySongbirdSays · 06/10/2016 01:36

Anyone reminded of the late Lynda Bellingham' sons and her ex husband who gave them nothing and spent it all?

He won't give you a penny OP but you know this

If she wants to separate some money out for tax reasons it can be put in trust for grandchildren.

It is a shame that you and your sister are NC or you could join forces against him.

Act fast and make sure a will excluding him is done and dusted. He is clearly a fortune hunter and not even a very good one that he is so obvious with it.

SoTheySentMeA · 06/10/2016 01:47

My god, just the thought of this situation makes my skin, how utterly horrendous for you Flowers I don't know how you restrain yourself from begging her to end it - if my mum were with a horrible creepy pervert I don't think I could be so self controlled.

About the money, I can totally understand your frustration/horror at the Creeps suggestion! I think you would be best off taking a portion of your inheritance now rather than risk her leaving it to the Creep. I really feel for you, hope it works out!

Kr1stina · 06/10/2016 02:28

You mother needs proper tax planning advice, the rules about imheriting a business are complex.

She's in her 60s so she need to make arrangements for succession planning ASAP. Isn't she concerned about what woudl happen to the staff?

BummyMummy77 · 06/10/2016 02:55

You aren't being horrible at all. Flowers

Italiangreyhound · 06/10/2016 03:19

whoisshe124 I am sorry you are in this situation and I think you need to break it down into managable bits.

Here's the relevant bits I see...

Your mum wants to give you some money to help you out now, for you to enjoy and for her to see you enjoying. LET HER. If she dies within a certain period of time and if the money is above a certain amount, there may be implications on that money she has given you. You will need to investigate this and be aware of it.

You really dislike the man who is in your mum's life and disprove of him, and suspect his motives. Have you told your mum? Do with this whatever you wish, I think I'd need to tell my mum in the nicest possible way that I don't 'approve' of her choice, but I love her to bits. It may well not be your 'place' to approve or disapprove but you can bet your bottom dollar most parents would be telling their adult children if they disproved of a love interest! It does not mean you need to fall out etc. It just means you can explain to her what you are uncomfortable with and that you will not have any long term connection to this man. So if your mum wants to leave her, and your dads, money to you and your sister after her death, she will need to not involve this man at all (as this would make her death even more painful for you and would make life much more uncomfortable for you right at a time when you needed all your strength).

You do seem to have an 'issue' in that you are living beyond your means, which I think many of us (myself at times) are doing. You said "We have (finally) achieved good work/life balance, but it's not enough to pay the bills, and we're worried about it." I think if you are happy with your work life balance etc then you may need to find some way to cut down the bills. So that you can live happily without worrying about this. Even in retirement both my parents had small jobs, my dad drove a van and my mum worked in a shop. It may be that your dh needs to do something small to help you feel less stressed about money.

Maybe you are thinking you will one day get an inheritance, and it may all work out fine. I guess I am just aware how many people do get small jobs even in retirement and I think having this covered would help you not to think too much about the money aspect of your mum's life. My mum just died (this year) and she was spending a lot to stay in a nursing home, money was worrying but we just thought of her money as her money to use and realized we may inherit nothing, when we did get a small inheritance it was very nice.

I recognize fully this was not the intention of your post but is being NC with your sister something you definitely want to continue to do? Having lost your beloved father, contemplating one day losing your mum and potentially having to deal with this very unpleasant man might you and your sister be able to build bridges together? Just an idea.

You're worried about your mother's death (when it happens) and feel sad thinking about it, try not to allow this to spoil your time with her. I've now lost both parents, one at 74 (total shock) the other at 83 (very expected).

It is very sad but you do get over it, in time. Almost all the money my parents made in their life went on my mum's final nursing home care but I know it was her money to spend, and she would much rather have given it to us. But it was not possible. In my mum's life, after the death of my dad, we made as many happy memories as we could and tried (my sister and I) to live life supporting each other in supporting mum.

Now they are both gone I have no regrets and no sadness.

Please just be really nice but really clear about how things make you feel and please do accept your mum's generosity now while she is able to see the benefit of your having it.

It may also be worth pointing out that if giving this money to this man and him giving it to you later is illegal (as to avoid tax), then he, or you or all of you could get into serious trouble after your mum's death and I am quite sure this is not the way you would want to remember your mum or how she would want to be remembered.

Bless you Thanks

Italiangreyhound · 06/10/2016 03:19

Phew, sorry, got a bit caught up there, it is all very real and recent for me too!

Italiangreyhound · 06/10/2016 03:21

And what EverySongbirdSays and others say.

MudCity · 06/10/2016 04:14

OP, if your mum is offering to help financially then, yes, accept it.
However, can you really afford for your DH not to be working and for you to be in a job that doesn't pay well? It's great you have achieved a work-life balance but you have to be able to afford that and compromise the treats, holidays and other luxuries. There lies your choice.

Maursh · 06/10/2016 05:19

Her delightful BF has suggested that me and my (NC) sister will pay less inheritance tax if she gives some money to him which he has told her he will give to us.

How bizarre!! You will also pay less IHT if she gives the money directly to you and your sister. I assume, btw, that your mother already has a will. I think that I would suggest that she should speak to an independent financial planner for advice on this and also point out that if she gives money to the BF then it is legally his and he is under no obligation to give it to you, you sister or even return it to her should they split up.

PoldarksBreeches · 06/10/2016 05:55

I'm surprised that you are being so restrained about this relationship tbh. Your mum sounds like a vey kind person but also one with compulsive care giving tendencies. Taking in a waif and stray with a history of sexual offences isn't a sensible thing to do and something that someone with good boundaries just wouldn't do. Yes she deserves to be happy but with a sex offender 30 years her junior? Really? If that were my mum I'd be having words, or I would have done way back when it became apparent he was exploiting her.
Because of course he is. He gets a place to live, someone to caretake him and make him feel accepted when he knows the rest of the world hates him, and no doubt he's planning to inherit the money when she dies.
Take the money now. Just take it and safeguard your dad's legacy. Don't be proud.

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/10/2016 06:33

Take the money now. You may inherit nothing otherwise. My mother has given my brother and me what she considers "half" of the wealth she had with my father accumulated. Then she threatened and has perhaps written me out of the will. Father died many years ago btw. In reality it's no where near half of the of the wealth each, maybe an eighth each of their combined wealth when father died. She remarried and she and her second husband now have even more money. He has no Children and is terminally ill so not likely to inherit from mother. I don't expect to inherit what stepfather will leave. But I would like the other part of the inheritance from my father as I know he would have wanted that despite dying intestate. Parents die and leave their remaining spouse to do the right thing. They often don't. My father was also self made with mother in a supporting role.

I know someone, who inherited nothing as their father didn't provide in his will. The wife remarried and willed everything to her second husband and his children. Her parents were relatively wealthy.

Seriously take the money. Your dad would not have wanted to see you struggle and neither does your mum. If you wait much longer, her scrounging boyfriend may have managed to twist your mind and leave you nothing. Why struggle when you have a choice?

glueandstick · 06/10/2016 06:48

Suggest your mother forms a trust fund for your children.

Seek some proper IHT planning advice.

Sorry is blunt- one hand typing feeding small person.

He sounds awful.

ConvincingLiar · 06/10/2016 07:09

Take money now. Encourage proper estate planning. Tell her the "cats home" is not real, but it's something flippant to say because you don't want to think of her dying. My parents have some sort of insurance policy that pays out to cover all the inheritance tax.

FinderofNeedles · 06/10/2016 07:10

Take the money. Put what you don't need immediately, away into a savings account or 3 (up to £15K in an ISA I think?). See it as protecting you'd DF's money. And protecting yourself from the creep, in later life.

When discussing it with your mother, don't link it to any suspicions you have of him, as it will only complicate matters (as you say, she is 'giddy' and 'happy'). Tell her how grateful you are and that you will use it wisely, for the benefit of you and the g'children.

Could she set up a trust fund of some kind for the g'children?

SoupDragon · 06/10/2016 07:16

But isn't this fucking cunt prick fleecing her?

Yes. Yes he is.

Others have said it so I won't repeat it. My dad has been giving my siblings and I gifts for many years in order to reduce IHT - all equal so it won't make the will messy when he (or my mother) do die. This is what yourmother should be considering if she wishes to reduce IHT, not the lies that man is spinning her.

Whocansay · 06/10/2016 07:16

If she wants to leave it to you there are many ways for her to do it other than giving it to him. Tell her to get some proper financial advice and LTB.