To be fed up of comparisons with 1930s Germany in U.K. politics?

[jessica29054]

Surely a better and far less potentially offensive comparison is the 1980s?

Labour in disarray, therefore weak opposition, and a female PM of course.

Comparisons with the rise of the extreme far right in Germany have little place. The BNP are the equivalent to Hitler and his party and thankfully have little mainstream support.

What is frightening is suddenly starting to understand how it happened.
Didn't it always seem unimaginable, how the 'good' Germans failed to stand up and stop it?
Now I feel it's much easier to see how each little change seems relatively innocuous - not nice, and I don't agree, but not worth getting het up about, because what can I do?
And suddenly it no longer feels so unimportant, but I've still no clue what to do.
And every day I hear more accounts of attscks on foreigners (I'm one, remember) and I feel a little. It less safe.
I don't think it will end in genocide, but there are a lot of places that fall far short of that which I still don't want to go to.

I'm not claiming that Manon; I'm saying you don't know, and neither do I.

Naka, it really isn't like what's happening to our country now

Britain First deliberately faux innocent patriotic shit about veterans and starving dogs to hook people. They're hardly going to start off with "We're thick racist jackbooting thugs - pop in for a tea and scone!

I felt really grubby after I'd looked at their FB page. But, we need to scrutinise so I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out echoes of the 1930s.

There's plenty of evidence that the Leave campaign was extremely successful, so I don't know why you're trying to deny that. (well I can guess).

I totally agree Allfednonedead I have much more sympathy with and understanding of Germany now I see how pathetically easy it is to manipulate the population.

Jessica, you really can't see the parallels? You are blind if not.

When the Nazis took power, they started by keeping lists of the "undesirables" which then became a mark on their house, before eventually rounding them up to take them to camps. This was before they even started their war on the Jews.

It is happening again now.

I'll leave this here:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Perhaps you should think about that.

Naka is right OP, that's exactly what is happening in our country. I just hope that we have enough good people to stand up against the rising tide to stop it.

What is frightening is suddenly starting to understand how it happened.

I agree. I don't know whether social media helps or hinders here - I think it's still too early to tell. It's certainly easier for people to aligning and mobilise themselves but it's easier to watch and scrutinise them as well.

As I always say. You might dislike my politics and call me a lefty, but you should be bloody glad we are so vocal. We have seen it happen time and time again and the public of Germany were complicit in their silence when they rounded up socialists, then gay people, then the disabled, then trade unions. As long as it wasn't them who were effected, they weren't bothered.

I will not allow that to happen again. Be glad there are people speaking up about how awful this is and drawing the comparisons between now and Nazism, because it shows we are aware what is happening and we won't let it happen. Not again. Not ever. This is just the start and if the Tories want war, they've got it. Because let me tell you, people won't go down as easily this time.

No, Naka I can't.

Because immigrants haven't been compared to rats, made to swim in separate swimming pools, the list goes on.

I think you don't want to leave the EU (fine) and dislike Theresa May/Tory party (also fine) but the answer is not to find one of the worst genocides and dictators in history and draw comparisons.

Unfortunately, that poem, originally so profound in context, is losing its impact. I now think of it as being not the horrendous suffering of some but rather the hyperbolic shrill statements of those who compare anything they dislike to nazi Germany.

As I've said - if I'm wrong - if May turns into a dictator, starts the process of gassing people (who? Immigrants? Poor people?) I'll eat my words.

YY Nakatomi. We seem to share the same political views as well as the same taste in men in glasses

The rise of UKIP has been a scary thing to behold, in the face of the referendum vote (and that poster ). FOr that reason, I'm actually relieved that May is PM, and that there was no General Election in the wake of the Brexit vote, when UKIP could have gained some real political power on that wave of nationalism.

Theresa May is far too right wing for my liking, and I dislike a right wing government - but UKIP is very scary indeed. It really is that Michael Rosen poem. With the threat of Trump as well, we could be looking at a very dangerous time ahead of us.

Naka and Alfred are saying it for me.
I suspect that the rhetoric doesn't feel so threatening if it isn't about you or anyone close to you, it's just 'others'.
But when you care about someone who is in the group who is being blamed for all the problems in the country or who is going to have to be counted up by their company then 1930s Germany feels uncomfortably close.

The Tories came to power in 2010 by vilifying the poor, hence austerity. That was pandering to populism.

Fascism: I sometimes fear...

"I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.

Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...

It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

Michael Rosen

OP if I wanted to call someone Hitler, I would name Farage. That poster, that singing of Hitler youth songs.

You need to look at history - Oswald Moseley, the Black Shirts. In fact, on Sunday it was the 80 year anniversary of the Battle of Cable Street. We Brits have a long history of fighting fascism - we need to make sure it continues.

I don't think I will be herded into a camp, but after the last few days I wonder

will I, if I want to change jobs, be hired if employing foreign workers is a negative? Will it be penalised, or will there be quotas?

Will I even be able to stay in the job I have?

Will I be restricted in being able to access healthcare, or other services?

Will my children?

And of course, many other such worries. I should say I have uk citizenship, and this insulates me, but I don't feel safe because I don't know for how long it will be valid- I can see a tiered citizenship becoming the norm.

In any case, There doesn't have to be an outright genocide for life to become mean, and feel precarious

It won't be May, are you being deliberately obtuse?

Fascism is on the rise all over Europe, UKIP is still going and Farrage has not yet stepped down. Borders are closing and protectionism is on the rise. This is the start of something horrible.

When your European colleagues are sent home will you stand up? When we privatise the NHS and education because we can't afford it as we've sent home the people who worked there are you going to stand up for those too poor to pay for healthcare? What about education?

When the Nazis took power, they started by keeping lists of the "undesirables

Bit like Corbyn...

This talk of nazi is just being edgy, May or the Tories are not equivalent to the nazis, it's just playing Godwin's, someone using Facebook likes as some kind of example is laughable on so many levels that it's not worth discussing really.

Personally I think she is showing more of her C&E upbringing, the 'lurch to the right' that a lot of people are scared of, to me is actually capturing the disenfranchised labour/UKIP supporter, I doubt she will instigate an invasion of Poland...

When the comparison is made with 30s Germany it's really the conditions of and the rise of National Socialism and not the political religion of Nazism itself.

I think your fixation on the extremities of Nazism is intentional because it enables you to deny the parallels of the early stages.

its similar to many events that end in fascist totalitarian states. in some ways it reminds me of pre francos spain, with the population so divided. and of course we have no need for expert

jessica29054

Either you are naive, stupid, or both.

Do you not remember that poster during the Leave campaign? This one: leftfootforward.org/images/2016/06/UKIP-Leave-Project-Fear-800x450.jpg

Looks an awful lot like this to me: static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/indy100/WkTYUB18EW/10727-x0cvjj.JPG

This one: d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ukipdev/pages/151/attachments/original/1398093353/Burning_flag_48sheet.jpeg?1398093353

Looks like this: www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/photo/lc/image/17/17401a.jpg

Playing on the same fears, that someone else is at work.

Need I keep going?

Yes, yes, clearly very stupid :) I see the error of my ways and I'm sorry for the genocide we are about to experience.

Fascism is on the rise all over Europe, UKIP is still going and Farrage has not yet stepped down. Borders are closing and protectionism is on the rise. This is the start of something horrible

Whilst that's true (to some extent), it is a natural pendulum swing, it is to be expected, that doesn't mean it's going to kick of into WW3, no one has really come out of the financial crash apart from the higher classes, from our austerity driven policies, to the French with there 'socialist' regime, globalisation is on the March

Being obtuse seems to be worn as a badge of honour these days.

Oh for gods sake this thread is getting about as bonkers as mumsnet gets and as hysterical.

Op agree with you. It's the 80s.