AIBU To expect my wife to actively search for work now DC are at school ?

[Fortnum]

My wife hasn't worked full time in the 12 years of our marriage, I have always been the principle earner. Previously there were some part time supermarket hours despite a reasonably professional clerical career prior to marriage and moving to another area of the country. Now our DC are 7 &10 respectively I would expect her to at least search for some work within their school hours if possible , I have even offered to invest in a business start up for her.

I earn a good wage and we can afford to live reasonably well, but now with age 40 not far around the corner , I feel we should be working very hard to bring in whatever we can to plan for the future, its all very well us owning a nice home but with another income we could pay the mortgage down even quicker and it is always worth both partners having a decent pension arrangement.

She does not seem too bothered, she has applied for precisely two jobs in 4 months. I had a period of 6 months unemployed a few years ago, (with savings) and I spent 6-8 hours a day networking where possible and applying for jobs and canvassing potential employers.

So AIBU ?

Can't you both work part time? That way you both share the kids duties and you may even have more time together as a couple?

This is an interesting thread. I am in a similar position to your wife, OP, except that I have now been out of work for 7 years. I also gave up a good career in the UK to follow my DH who lived abroad so I am effectively a trailing spouse.

DH hasn't really had to change anything to do with his working hours/patterns since the kids came along and I became a SAHM. You can rest assured when he has mentioned me finding work, I have said it's not a problem at all IF he steps up and shares some of the responsibilities re kids/school run/sickness etc. He quickly blanches at that thought and then changes his tune. We have kids in two different schools in two different places with two different starting/finishing times plus a half day, or no school, on Wednesdays not to mention four different activities to get to on three different days after school. Then homework to be done every night (eldest is seven so this needs to be supervised). Plus a two week October half term break, two weeks at Christmas, two weeks in February, two weeks Spring break followed by eight weeks in the summer.

DH travels a lot, leaves the house at 6am and often not back until 7.30pm.

It makes me a rather unattractive potential employee I think. Unless I had a live-in au pair who could drive.....

I've noticed a trend with my mum friends that as our children start school, quite a number or working mums have become stay at home parents. As it's much harder to work when children are school aged and have their own ideas about what activities and social things they want to do after school. Those who stayed home when their children were babies and started work when the children started school are struggling a lot and many returned to stay at home parenting to the relief of their whole family as their husbands were just not prepared to suddenly be 50% responsible for the home and childcare arrangements.

Poor Angela0413 hasn't yet discovered that juggling work and childcare gets harder when they start primary school than it was when they were younger. grin

Why does it get harder? Genuine question.

I'm a SAHM. I haven't worked for twelve years, at least I haven't been paid for twelve years. This wasn't really a choice. Instead, I've raised my dcs, singled handedly tbh. Dh is great and supportive. I've supported his career and he works a twelve hour a day, sometimes more. I have no support outside, my mum died when DS was a baby 11 years ago. I cannot remember when I last out socially. My 12 year old DS also has ASD making childcare in the early days hard. Before I had my dcs, I worked and was the breadwinner. I supported dh through uni. I want to work and I've actually got an interview next week!! But finding something that will fit in is hard, I've still got to take my DD to school, and be there to collect her at 3.20. There's no one else, no after school stuff, things aren't always that simple.

Trifleorbust - sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant that the OP could actually end up paying more if his/her wife did work, because the wife's wages might not even cover the childcare - that's what would happen in our house if I could not earn more than £200 per week.

roundaboutthetown - They divorced for many reasons - only one of which was being told she was lazy and not trying hard enough to get a job. I wasn't implying that divorce was preferable/cheaper - just pointing out the irony that she found it easier to find work when she didn't have to find a school hours job and still get home to put a beautiful home-cooked meal on the table.

Im a sahm and both my DC are now at school, it's not a role I ever envisaged having tbh. However we have no family nearby, we aren't from this area and dh works in role which can't be done from home and requires a lot of last minute trips abroad for up to a month.

I don't see how it would work for me to have a job. There is NO way he'd take time off if they were ill or during holidays and the kids have appointments too with dentists , occupational therapy, optician etc. That would all fall on my shoulders too.

Dh talks now and then about me getting a part time job but what he means is a job which is 930-230 and term time only, oh and doesn't mind me not being in when the kids are ill or they have an appointment or whatever. Those jobs don't exist!

Irrespective of whether you're both women or not then I think you need to think long and hard about the bigger picture.

Yes, Hippee, but he isn't subsidising her. Sorry to be anal, but it's the attitude lots of people have about the earnings of the lower paid partner - actually, she would be financially contributing to everything, it's just that childcare could cost more than she earned.

OP not back?

Why does it get harder? Genuine question.

One reason is that while most nurseries offer 8am-6pm hours all year round, school is only 9am-3pm, with 13 weeks holiday a year. You therefore have to arrange breakfast clubs, after school clubs, holiday clubs, childminder, or some other form of wraparound care (all of which are generally over-subscribed) as well as homework, projects, after-school activities, etc.

My children are both in primary school and I'm considerably more knackered, and more pressed for time, than I was when they were under 5.

It's very difficult to get back in to the workplace after a long gap. I know because I tried, and even from a part -time job that i had for two and a half years, I had a recruiter refer to me as a mum-returner which I thought was unfair given I had recently done ECDL, Payroll course, Excel Expert, and so had more to offer (I would have thought) than a school leaver. However, employers disagreed and I received so many rejections I had to turn to hypnosis to keep motivated and positive. Eventually I got a job but you should see my folder in my email where I stored all the PFOs

haudyerswhist I agree those jobs don't exist. men are dreaming. Often, those same men wouldn't employ a woman part-time in their own firm, give him/her flexibility to pick up kids etc, but they expect their wives to find such a plum role. Or so it seems, reading the threads on mumsnet!

I'm single so I do all the wifework too. Argh. No wonder i'm in bed at 8.40

Maybe she knows what it would be like for her, as I know I what it would be like for me, and is choosing not to break her back. Unless you are planning on splitting ALL the household duties and childcare (and not doing a shitty job of say, the regular cleaning because all of a sudden now you can't be arsed) then I think you are unreasonable.

I work part time that I can schedule around ds and I don't expect my dh to scrub toilets when he gets home, he has it pretty cushy and I do as well. But I know what it would be like for me if I did go back full time and - half household duties split would be more like 75% me and maybe 25% dh when all is said and done and I'm not dissing dh - he is an outstanding career person and I'm more a home maker. I choose not to kill myself with work.

But we talked about this kind of thing before children. Did you?

I don't think you are meaning to be unreasonable but I think you need to think it through.

I have been at home with our dc's since we had them and went back to work full time about a year ago but had to leave as dh travels with work and is often away a week at a time (up to a fortnight a month). I started working full time but was still expected to do school run as dh just can't with his work and it was impossible as the job was an hour's commute so if I had to stay late for anything then I either had to grovel and ask another mum to pick dc up from school or leave meeting and deal with dirty looks from the team. Dh also thought it would be a great idea for me to go back to work until the reality of it hit - I was earning about 5k more a year than I would have to pay a nanny so paid for childcare was pointless. Dh tried to help but he has a very stressful job and travels loads, so it just didn't work.

I'm lucky enough to be working for dh now from home doing something dull but at least I can pick the kids up and be around in case anyone is off sick and take time off during the school holidays. It's not exactly my dream job but it's a compromise for both of us, because I want to be around for dc and practically it makes sense too.

Trifleorbust - yes, sorry, you're right - I guess I am lucky that my DH considers all earnings as household income, so I haven't seen it that way at home, hence my sloppy language

Why the need to use the word 'actively' before search?

I literally had to wait for my kids to grow old enough that I could know they would be ok in the house on their own for an hour or two.

because as a pp says, you can't get a job where you can leave early, take time off for appointments etc.. i still need a lot of help from my m&d with childcare.

I think OP maybe you should actively step forward and take responsibility for 50% of the duties wrt picking up, dropping off, the event of sickness, half terms etc.......... That would be a more secure and more realistic platform from which to job hunt.

Basically, your lifestyle can be as dependent on your wife not working as it is on you working. Just as you have to make sacrifices financially if she doesn't work, you might have to make them in other ways if she does work. I have quoted this before, but I read an article a while back about the assumption nowadays that women must pursue their careers by stealth - run an organic baby food empire from their kitchen table and still be able to make the 3pm school run and chair the PTA. It drives me bonkers.

Why does it get harder? Genuine question.

What Spaceunicorn said plus when they first start they are often completely exhausted from school and some might struggle with after school care too. Once they get a bit older there is homework, which can be difficult to do if they are coming home late etc unless the after school club has a quiet area and your child is good at going and getting it done.

Added to that many schools seem to have a habit of springing things on you at the last minute that either take lots of effort or require you to be present in the middle of the day. Our old school was awful at this. On Monday there would be a note in the book bag saying something like 'we have decided to have a woodland theme this week so please dress your child as a badger or squirrel for school on Wednesday and come along to our class performance on Thursday at 1pm'. As a SAHM this was a pain but if you are at work it is pretty much impossible to do this and your child will notice. Our current school is brilliant at planning things in advance so hopefully this won't happen to you but still there is quite a bit that is planned in advance and you don't want to not turn up to any of it if you can help it.

Then there's the fact that your child is now old enough to have quite strong opinions on things and tell you. So if 'everyone else' is picked up and taken to the park or a playdate together and they are going to after school club every night they might not want that. Of course they might be quite happy but it is easier to distract them with something else when they are 3 rather than 8 and if your child is feeling left out because others are forming close bonds out of school that is tough.

Then there's the emotional side which can take much more effort and time than when they are younger. So talking about friendship dynamics that aren't working etc.

Of course a lot of this depends on your school, your child, what the demographic in the area is (are most SAHM), whether the after school clubs are decent etc. It can be difficult though.

YANBU in wanting her to contribute or consider her future but you are being U in assuming that it is as straightforward as it was for you.

When you were looking for work, you could network and apply for jobs to your hearts content safe in the knowledge that you had no constraints to your working hours. You did not have to consider childcare, school runs, school holidays or random inset days. Unless you work within education there are very few employers that offer this flexibility.

Hmm. It would be reasonable to want her to look for work. It would be reasonable to want her to be around before and after school. It would be reasonable to want her to do something that would increase the household income, and relieve you of being sole earner. However, you appear to want all three at once, and that's pretty optimistic for someone in her position. If you'd ultimately like her working to achieve more money, you may need a long term plan, rather than her grabbing the first NMW gig that turns up and hoping it's school hours. I mean, do you think supermarket would would cover childcare x in school holidays?

If you do actually come back, I'd be interested to hear more about this startup you mentioned. Would it have fit round school hours?

Well, I was going to post something deeply insightful and well worded, but as the OP has not been back...

YABU btw.

I image after 12 years out of the workforce your partner has lost a lot of her self confidence re work. Maybe some work related course would be good first?

I think YABHugelyU and I'm coming at this from the point of view of someone in a similar situation to you - that is, I work full time and have done since my children were small. My husband is the SAHP and our boys are now 8 and 10.

DH is more qualified than you have described your wife as being (think decent professional degree, post grad studies, CV that up until the time out for children is stunning) but because someone needed to stay home and my earning potential is greater, we decided he should stay at home full time as at the time, both of us working part time wasn't an option. We are comfortable and have planned our finances over our lifetime based on one income.

We looked into him going back to work standard office hours (that's what he would have to do to fit around my job) and when you factor in wrap around school care, school holiday care, the need for someone to be around when the boys are sick, cramming all the jobs that he does in the week into the weekend (DIY, gardening, shopping, laundry) - our family as a whole would be financially worse off with him in a salaried job than with him out of one. I get to spend the weekends doing fun stuff with my family because he's done all the day to day crap in the week. (And yes, before that paragraph kicks off - I know a lot of families have to cope with two working parents, and doing all the shit work at weekends. We are lucky and don't have to, I'm not about to race to put us into a situation where we do).

YAalsoBVU to make the comment that "it is always worth both partners having a decent pension arrangement". DH has got a decent pension arrangement, because I have made sure that I am paying into one for him as well as one for me. In the same way that my income now is family income - he buys whatever he needs from our joint account as I do - my pension is a joint pension and will be family income when I retire. Anything else would be unthinkable.