Am I being unreasonable about Christmas plans?

[Grumpyaboutchristmas]

Genuinely would like views. I've name changed as with all other info from previous posts this could be quite identifying.

My family loves Christmas. We do big celebrations, not flash but lots of family and we love the tree, decorations and the whole day together. Husband's family not so bothered. They aren't that close, we've rarely done Christmas together and there has now been a family fall out with one of the in law siblings so no more big dos.

MIL and FIL in different care homes hundreds of miles away from us (different needs). We wanted them to move near us from years ago (so we could look after them in their old age) but they refused. Now they are in care homes we asked if they would move to care homes nearer to us (or one of the other siblings) so we can help care for them, bring them here for meals, do shopping etc for them, bring the kids to see them and so on. They refused.

I get that it would be quite disorientating to move when they are so old, but their quality of life would be immeasurably better. They have few friends and even fewer visitors. All of us live miles away from them and have family, work and other life commitments which means the weekend round trip to spend time in a hotel with care home visits is pretty unrewarding. They are quite old and also old fashioned and have never been hands on with the kids, and to be honest are anecdotally interested in the children but not so much in real life. The kids bring stuff to do when we are there but there's little interaction. To be fair, that's not anyone's fault, it's just the way it is and always was, even before the in laws had to go into homes.

So this year my family are already planning what to do at Christmas (don't judge us, I know it's early but my sibling and husband work shifts which they need to work around). We arrange to meet either for Christmas or for another date in between to celebrate it. We usually do Christmas day with my family just because we love it and husband's family aren't bothered. This year though, husband has suggested we go to his family. It would mean staying in a hotel near them in Xmas eve, with no tree or decorations (in rooms at least) for Christmas Eve or morning, followed by ferrying his mum to lunch in a restaurant, which would be quite low key and reserved (as it always is), followed by visit to granddad (who can't come out his home any more), followed by back to hotel. We would have to bring presents but somehow hide them from the kids - we don't have the biggest car in the world and it would be tricky to say the least. It just feels so unchristmassy. I don't want to do it but feel awful saying that. I think we make Christmas really special for the kids and i don't think that day sounds special. I'd be happy to do this any day but Christmas Day (and do, willingly, and encourage visits usually).

So AIBU to say we go to my family and not his, but go to his family on 27th once we're back? It might mean that his parents are alone in their care homes on Xmas day. One of his siblings did Christmas Day with them several years in a row (I don't think they brought the family with them though) and I don't think the others would do it at all. It makes me feel terrible to think of the in laws alone, but I also feel, somewhat terribly, that if they had moved to be near us then there wouldn't be this issue (we'd have Xmas morning here, and then bring them here, visit grandad etc). We'd have control and we could make it special for them and for the kids. In a random hotel, with Christmas dinner in a random pub or restaurant, we can't do that. The fact that they refused, in my view somewhat pigheadedly, to move anywhere near any of their children has created a situation where Christmas with young children and them is nigh on impossible to accommodate. We did say that our wings were clipped by the distance and logistics and we can't help or do as much from this distance, and I guess that includes things like Christmas. AIBU?

I have some in laws who moved a very long way and I worry about when they are older because we can't just pop up there.

Yanbu. I agree it should be about the kids. I have worked in care homes and agree the staff will make it a lovely day. Is there any chance of calling them xmas day for a chat.

I would go for a couple of days maybe boxing day or later.

Take yourself put of your situation. If a friend had this problem, what would you advise them? Would you judge them?

Because she doesn't want to put him through the distress of moving.

I don't want to seem harsh but you don't seem to appreciate how distressing it would likely be for him to move. And she may well not be able to face putting him through that - as well as not being used to giving him 'orders' if you like, given that he is the man.

I do think they sound selfish and agree with you about Christmas. But regarding the wider issue of distance, the time to move is 5/10 years into retirement. Once people are elderly moving becomes more and more difficult for a range of reasons.

Honestly I think you are being a bit unreasonable. Most years you go to your family and this year your DH had requested spending it with his elderly parents, just because they aren't as fun or big on decorations as your family doesn't mean they don't enjoy and want time together on Christmas Day instead of two days later. Would you be staying with your parents over Xmas? If so you'd have the same issue with presents.
You could easily book a holiday cottage near his parents, decorate etc. Seems like you are looking for excuses not to go.

When DC still believe in FC it's amazing what else they will believe. My DCs are choristers and board in their choir school until after the last service on Christmas Day, so since oldest DC was 7 Christmas was at school.

We told them we had written to FC to explain this to him and FC knows all about choristers so does an extra present delivery on Christmas night for all the children who have to do Christmas a day late. (And actually he quite likes it as Christmas Eve can be quite hectic!)

We then had a traditional Christmas Day on Boxing Day....left mince pie/brandy/carrots out for FC and Rudolf on Christmas night, presents under the tree Boxing Day morning. All good.

Seeing PILs on Christmas Day needn't mean DCs can't have their own Christmas too, and would cut some of the logistical hassle. Just a thought....

A PP has said that Christmas in the care home will be celebrated, so taking the ILs out for lunch will spoil that. They have never been bothered about Christmas even when well, so what difference will it make if you visit Christmas day or the day after?

Also if there are more than two siblings, as it sounds like from your OP, why can't one of the others (not the one who has already had several years in a row) take a turn?

I can see why your DH wants to be with them but I think in that case he should go on his own. Although children can get joy out of Christmas wherever they are, time spent with cousins and wider family is invaluable so I would prioritise that.

For us circumstances meant we lived up the road from the ILs and endured saw them several times a week when our children were small, so we always did Christmas with my family, who we only saw 3-4 times a year.

I certainly don't think that it should fall to one family member to visit every Christmas. However given the reluctance to move I don't think she can honestly expect her kids to visit on Christmas Day leaving young children behind or dragging them to a soulless hotel, cottage sounds nicer but really it's just somebody else's place and would be little different to being at home just the 4 of you.

I still think that the best compromise is you all visiting together on the 27th. Taking her out for lunch / dinner opening some presents with her. Don't get guilt tripped into splitting up your family up on Christmas day. Life is too short, you never know what could happen.

Probably to late to organise for this Christmas but would it be an option for next Christmas to rent somewhere and get all of DH's siblings and families together next MIL so she can join in a proper family Christmas? Without the kids missing out on the family atmosphere that you are craving?

Bear - we are already talking about getting the extended in law family together next year. I think that would be a great option, surrounded by cousins etc and close enough to visit in laws on the day and bring grandma for Christmas dinner.

What would I advise a friend? Difficult to say as I am completely biased, but based on all I have said, I think I'd say to prioritise the kids' Christmas and make the 27th special for everyone. I think I'd see that my friend had taken significant steps to try and accommodate the in laws needs and that something has to give when those offers are rejected. But this is massively biased, I accept that, as I can't switch off my own emotions and look at it uncoloured.

How many christmases since you had kids have you spent with your family, his family and on your own?

I've answered this up thread auto, we've done Christmas with them a couple of times, but they don't really celebrate it (including DH) and aren't bothered about it, so we tend to prioritise my family, which do. For my family, it's a much bigger sacrifice to delay until 27th, whereas for them it's never been an issue.

Sorry, that was for Auser, misread name.

I'm asking specific numbers.

I would be aiming for 1/3 each way split.

Imagine if you had to do his family Christmas every year. That's not nice. It's nice and fair to do his family on an equal basis. And don't you want to make your own traditions?

I HATED always having in laws sort of Christmas.

"DH not massively enamoured with my family and he isn't that bothered about Christmas either as it was never much celebrated in his family. "

Why don't you him & the kids have CD & maybe BD.

The you visit your family & he visits his parents?

I think the bit I struggle with is this approach that your family trumps your DH's. I get that you think they are better, more deserving. They already "win" christmas most years, isn't that enough? Your family being "better" shouldn't mean your DH never gets to see his on christmas day.

Sorry to be so up my own arse but I remember a wedding sermon once that said marriage is not about give and take, but give and give. You both give, and keep on giving, and hopefully that will help the marriage succeed. Your DH has done it your way for many, many years - and I appreciate that that has gone hand in hand with you doing the huge majority of the planning and organising. Wouldn't it be nice to say actually, just this once, let's build it round what he wants to do. Forget which of your extended family deserves what or even what's fair, just be kind. And that shouldn't mean he goes by himself and doesn't get to spend much time with his own DC.

MrEBear, be warned that some hospitals won't let children into the postnatal wards, mine certainly didn't. Worth checking in advance!

YANBU. Dh and I used to alternate. I was the one, who made Christmas happen at his father's house. We gave him a list of what to buy and I did all the cooking and dh and I had to go shopping on Boxing Day for more food as he never bought anything for dd or us. Then we arranged to do Xmas at dh cousins house a couple of times. We provided some food etc. We had to travel abroad and a day to see his father btw. Then when dd was 18 months, we went to his house and dd had a sick bug. There was hardly any food in the house and we couldn't go to the cousins house with ill dd. I said never again.

Dhs father really doesn't celebrate Christmas. So no decorations or festivity. Just sits and watches football, reads the paper. He has the option of coming here and doesn't want to. He has come several times to see us and dh has always organised his travel arrangements for him. He's happy in his house by himself with his dog (he has many autistic characteristics).

Dd is 8 and still believes in Santa, fairies and elves. There is no way I would go in your shoes. I think it's a real shame that your children's daddy won't get to spend time with his children at Christmas if he goes after present unwrapping. But this is also about him and honouring what he wants to do so I would send dh in good grace. And there will be next year with the children. In all likelihood they will still believe.

Vote here for Xmas with kids and time with PIL on alternative date. They are not alone and will have a good dinner and atmosphere at a home. As you say the situation is of their own making.
Your priority (and your husbands) should be your children. When they are older it would be more reasonable to compromise, perhaps with some of the suggestions above.
It is not as though they are going to be on their own at home on Christmas Day. I think it would be a selfish grandparent who expected to be prioritised over their grandchildren at Christmas.

If DH popping out for a couple of hours on Christmas Day from your parents' home is workable, then that could be the best solution, especially if he finds your family celebrations overwhelming. You can take the children to visit and give presents/ home made cards before Christmas.

And in contrast to those posters who say that children don't notice / care - mine did. We used to spend every Christmas travelling hundreds of miles, driving the length and breadth of the country, trying to be fair to everyone and fit everyone in. We stopped bothering the year that a) the children pleaded with us not to have to spend Christmas in the car again, and b) DH, Dcs and I spent Christmas evening on our own in relatives' house as everyone else decided to go elsewhere.

YANBU. Christmas is for the kids. When my dad was in a care home at Christmas (6 of them), he was never on his own. The staff made such a big deal of it and those who did have family there were mixed in with those that didn't. No one was alone unless they wanted to be. I'd go on the 27th.

I think your DH should be able to see his DM & DF on Christmas Day, especially considering christmases are normally centred around your family.

I think you've lost the true value of Xmas. Just because your family have OCD about Xmas and do a big one doesn't make it the best, or trump anything else. Your poor husband, he sounded like he has had to go to your family's big Xmas lots of times, even though it's not his thing. This year he has elderly parents, in a home, and he realises that he might not have many more with them, and wants to visit them for a change. You really ought to be able to make Xmas special for your children wherever you are, even if you only take small presents and tell them Santa delivered the big ones for when they get home. Be kind, as someone already said.

We used to rent a holiday cottage when we were in this situation.

It was usually 45 minutes to an hour away, so in nice countryside. You can take Christmas with you! It was a good balance, because yes, Christmas in a care home is not as much fun as the one you want to have. We used to have lunch with the oldies but not eat too much, then have another lunch at the holiday cottage.

I have had Christmas lunch in a care home with mother in law. Tears were shed at the sight of the old people with no one to visit, sitting alone while other people had their families with them. The staff really made an effort with them, but they looked so lonely it was upsetting to see.

Of course, those old people may have had no family, or could have been utter cunts to their kids in the past, who knows?

I can understand why your husband wants to see them Christmas. They are his parents, and they possibly don't have many Christmas left.

This is an interesting thread. I actually think that the fact it is Christmas being discussed is a red herring.

The problem with Christmas is that it has so much significance for so many people.

The OP (based on her previous posts) is the Organiser. She does a lot of organising and sorting things out (for her immediate family and for her ILs). This is not easy when done for her ILs because they are a long way away etc. Even when it is her husband who is asked to do things, it falls to the OP because she is the organiser.

There is an event that she particularly likes. Realistically, she will be doing most or all the organising for that but she doesn't mind (I assume) because she really likes this event and gets a lot out of it. However, she has now been asked if they can do the event differently, which means a really long journey and missing out on a few of the things she enjoys about the event. She will still (probably) have to do most of the organising for this new version of the event, except that she won't enjoy it as much. I can see that this would be disappointing for the OP.

My view? There are twelve days of Christmas. Do Christmas Day / Boxing Day on your own or with your family and then go an visit your in laws.