Am I being unreasonable about Christmas plans?

[Grumpyaboutchristmas]

Genuinely would like views. I've name changed as with all other info from previous posts this could be quite identifying.

My family loves Christmas. We do big celebrations, not flash but lots of family and we love the tree, decorations and the whole day together. Husband's family not so bothered. They aren't that close, we've rarely done Christmas together and there has now been a family fall out with one of the in law siblings so no more big dos.

MIL and FIL in different care homes hundreds of miles away from us (different needs). We wanted them to move near us from years ago (so we could look after them in their old age) but they refused. Now they are in care homes we asked if they would move to care homes nearer to us (or one of the other siblings) so we can help care for them, bring them here for meals, do shopping etc for them, bring the kids to see them and so on. They refused.

I get that it would be quite disorientating to move when they are so old, but their quality of life would be immeasurably better. They have few friends and even fewer visitors. All of us live miles away from them and have family, work and other life commitments which means the weekend round trip to spend time in a hotel with care home visits is pretty unrewarding. They are quite old and also old fashioned and have never been hands on with the kids, and to be honest are anecdotally interested in the children but not so much in real life. The kids bring stuff to do when we are there but there's little interaction. To be fair, that's not anyone's fault, it's just the way it is and always was, even before the in laws had to go into homes.

So this year my family are already planning what to do at Christmas (don't judge us, I know it's early but my sibling and husband work shifts which they need to work around). We arrange to meet either for Christmas or for another date in between to celebrate it. We usually do Christmas day with my family just because we love it and husband's family aren't bothered. This year though, husband has suggested we go to his family. It would mean staying in a hotel near them in Xmas eve, with no tree or decorations (in rooms at least) for Christmas Eve or morning, followed by ferrying his mum to lunch in a restaurant, which would be quite low key and reserved (as it always is), followed by visit to granddad (who can't come out his home any more), followed by back to hotel. We would have to bring presents but somehow hide them from the kids - we don't have the biggest car in the world and it would be tricky to say the least. It just feels so unchristmassy. I don't want to do it but feel awful saying that. I think we make Christmas really special for the kids and i don't think that day sounds special. I'd be happy to do this any day but Christmas Day (and do, willingly, and encourage visits usually).

So AIBU to say we go to my family and not his, but go to his family on 27th once we're back? It might mean that his parents are alone in their care homes on Xmas day. One of his siblings did Christmas Day with them several years in a row (I don't think they brought the family with them though) and I don't think the others would do it at all. It makes me feel terrible to think of the in laws alone, but I also feel, somewhat terribly, that if they had moved to be near us then there wouldn't be this issue (we'd have Xmas morning here, and then bring them here, visit grandad etc). We'd have control and we could make it special for them and for the kids. In a random hotel, with Christmas dinner in a random pub or restaurant, we can't do that. The fact that they refused, in my view somewhat pigheadedly, to move anywhere near any of their children has created a situation where Christmas with young children and them is nigh on impossible to accommodate. We did say that our wings were clipped by the distance and logistics and we can't help or do as much from this distance, and I guess that includes things like Christmas. AIBU?

I would go before or after xmas and take the kids.
it's unfair on the children for them not to be at home xmas day.
I know the OP is the organiser but they are his parents and if he wants to see them xmas day he should go. If he wants the family to visit some other time he should arrange it and not expect the OP to do it because she is a woman.
Too many men opt out of organising by pretending to be rubbish at it, they should learn the same as we do.
Having a vagina does not make you the default organiser.

A few questions are coming to my mind (sorry if it has been raised and I've missed it)

• Has your MIL ASKED your DH to be there with you and the dcs on Christmas Day?
• If no one, DH, MIL or FIL are that bothered about Christmas, why is it important for nay of them to see each other on Christmas Day?

I totally get how difficult it is. I also get the difference in the ways you celebrate Christmas. We get around as a family by doing different days/time (e we do a big celebration on Christmas Eve it's my parents and do Christmas meal with my PIL in the evening or the day after).
It's more important for my parents to see the dcs opening the presents than for my PIL (and my dcs are much older than yours!) so we try and spend Christmas am at their house.
In effect we mix and match dates and times so that everyone has the best time possible.
I know my parents find it hard. They'd love spending the whole Christmas (and Boxing Day!) with us.

I would suggest similar arrangements.Christmas eve and lunch with PIL. Stay in an airb&b or cottage around. Then go to spend Christmas evening with your family.
Quite a bit of driving but at least you all get time together.

And next year, swap a round. Christmas Day with your family and Boxing Day with them (rather than the 27th after you've seen all your family)

To me Christmas is about young children I love seeing family and all that but young children really get the magic of it and spending a couple of days dragging them around strange places to visit people they don't know very well seems unkind to me. I have three kids and 3 step kids and Christmas was all about them when they were little . Now my youngest child is 12 we do more duty visits to relatives and it's about wider things like a bit of charity etc but Christmas for those few short years when they believe the magic should be at home surrounded by familiar things. I am currently training as a counsellor and we did a Christmas memories session and without fail the happiest memories were of that of family Christmases waiting for Santa to come down the chimney, not being in a hotel room or holiday cottage visiting a care home :). The unhappy ones were being dragged from relative to relative. I know it was only a snapshot of people (16) but it was interesting how our experiences shaped us.

This thread has reminded me of a Christmas Day we once all spent on a hospital ward when my son was four. It sounds as if a lot of posters on here would say it was wrong to spoil a child's Christmas like that but you know what, we decided to put someone else's needs first. Because of what subsequently happened, I'm very glad we did.

The staff on the ward made a huge fuss of him so he actually had a pretty good, if slightly unusual Christmas day. He also learned that for some people, Christmas can be a shit time. I don't think that's a bad lesson to learn at any age.

Floisme we don't know the full circumstances around the day so it's rather hard to compare. If any parent was terminally ill then yes of course that trumps a childs perfect christmas every time. But that does not appear to be the case here.

I am very very biased on this one because I spent every single Christmas as a child fitting in with the needs of two extremely selfish old people who couldn't have given a toss it was Christmas except that it gave them a chance to pull my mother's strings.

If you do do this, and I wouldn't, DH ought to be doing it all. Booking somewhere to stay, sorting meals, deciding when you visit who. It shouldn't be him deciding that he "ought to" visit parents (so they want this?) and you making that happen and trying to make things nice for the children.

Op is putting someone else first her kids.
This could well be the 6 yos last year of really really believing. Yes some 8/9 yos believe or don't want to let on they know. But for many the magic is gone by age 7.

Grandparents can wait a few days. Fil isn't going to know, Mil should at least understand her GC's Christmas should come first.

To the people who think Op should travel, would you want your GC dragged into see you in a home, made sit still and be quiet on Christmas day when they should be having fun?

But MrEBear, why do you think they will be made to sit still and quiet? The home will have stuff organised that they can join in, they can take toys and games and will probably have a huge fuss made of them

It wasn't a parent but I don't want to go into details and they don't matter. I guess I'm just not in tune with this idea that Christmas must always be a magical time. Sometimes it just isn't; that's life and you have to try and make the best of it for everyone.

I agree that husband should pull his weight over the arrangements.

There's no way I'd ruin my DCs Xmas for the sake of ILS.

Because nursing homes by there very nature are full of frail people, some who aren't well, can't cope with lots of noise or children monkeying around!
Christmas day children are likely to be hyper.

For all those banging on about the OP being selfish....I think it's pretty selfish for a spouse who is "not bothered" by Christmas and whose parent are "not bothered" by Christmas and who knows what a big deal it is for their wife - to force plans that he knows will make his partner and children unhappy.

This isn't about the in laws.

This is about the fact that for only the second time in a decade the OP's husband has actually asked to do something for Christmas. The OP has admitted that he without fail, and without question, has 8/10 times done what the OP wants.

Surely, therefore this shows just how much this means to him, and deserves the consideration that for just one Christmas, it's not all about the children and he gets to spend it with the people that mean the most to him. His wife, children and his parents.

The OP's parents have many many memories of Christmases with the small children.

I honestly cannot believe the amount of posters who would completely disregard their husbands feelings on this. Marriages are a partnership and about compromise. He has, many many times. It's the Op's turn to sack up and compromise for the sake of her husband.

Fr

OP's DH isn't forcing anything. He's asking.

I do the christmas planning too. I missed the memo that said that meant I never need to take DH's views into consideration, and I was excused from ever spending christmas day with the ILs. I rather like DH, and it's nice to be nice to the people you love.

Put it this way OP, how will you feel if your kids grow up and find partners who do all the christmas organising and whose family christmas they consider even more special than yours. How would you feel if your child asked their partner if they could spend christmas day with you, just this once, and your child's partner said "no, my parents do christmas better than Grumpy and anyway I'm doing all the hard work, so basically you can lump it."

Or would you want your child's partner to treat them better than that?

everyone should do xmas that suits them. This swapping between families and being fair sounds like hard, unneccessary work.

I wouldn't take young dc to nursing homes 4hr away on xmas day. I think it would be boring and upsetting for dc and I don't think grandparents would appreciate them for longer than 5 minutes.

Hmm. My response to this is probably coloured, at least in part, by the situation that I pretty much always spend Christmas with my in laws.

My parents are nice enough but also a little bit difficult. They aren't terribly interested in Christmas and my dad really isn't very interested in the GCs. I've asked them to come to us for Christmas over and over but they can't be arsed / don't fancy it.

In contrast, my in laws love Christmas and are just a bit easier to have in a group.

I do feel guilty about my parents being on their own at Christmas but, as I've asked them and they've said no, there is little I can do about it. We could go to the town they live in and stay in a Jury's Inn etc but my husband would be really miserable, it would be really hard work and they wouldn't be particularly grateful.

So I try to visit them for a day and night at some point between Christmas and New Year.

To respond to a few things -

Madge, I am not sure where you got your stats but they aren't from me. Looking at a statistical analysis of 8/10 Christmases being on my terms does not show the whole state of our life together, which is full of compromise for him, and his parents and his commitment to them. I offered to look after them in their old age FFS! And did so willingly. And would do so willingly if ever they changed their minds.

And he didn't ask at all - as I said up thread, I raised it as my family were discussing it and I specifically said to my family I had to talk to DH before I made any plans. I asked him if he wanted to spend Christmas with his family. I planted the seed, without having considered the effect. But I'm glad I did because I think this debate is important.

And re the homes and sitting still, they are quite austere places. A secure dementia unit is quite a frightening place for little ones, they cope very well but it's no fun, that's for sure. They love seeing granddad but he too can be frightening and a little odd at times. But that's all part of learning. I'm just not sure it should be part of Christmas Day when he knows no different. Grandmas care home is friendly but she chooses to keep herself to herself. We spend the whole time in her tiny room and she gets frustrated if the children don't sit still. There is an outside space but she gets cross if they make noise. It's very, very difficult for them but they do very well. But again, I'm just not sure that this makes for a good Christmas. I'd do it willingly any other day, and do so regularly.

In that case, OP, spend Christmas as you usually do and go down to visit (or have your husband go down to visit) between Christmas and New Year.

If this is what you do, it is important that you don't feel guilty about it.

There's no way I'd ruin my DCs Xmas for the sake of ILS.

Funnily enough they wouldn't be your DH ILS would they?

How about if he felt the same about his?

I absolutely think that you should do Christmas your way
There are only so many Christmases when kids are little. I always made sure that older relatives were included but not any cost
You are going to end up with nobody happy.

This is a tough one and I've been on the fence through reading much of the thread.

I have a vaguely similar situation (I think) in that SIL may be coming to stay for Christmas this year (she lives in another country). I am not keen, would rather not have house guests, especially in the middle of winter when it is much harder to find things to do to entertain them and she is nice but hard work. However, I've said to DH that she is welcome. We've done christmas with my family for the last 5 years (as flights v.expensive and difficult to get time off work to visit his home country for Christmas), so although having her stay is far from ideal for me, if it means that DH will hopefully enjoy christmas more this year then I have to go along with it. I know this scenario is not necessarily that comparable to yours, but I felt similarly to you about losing my preferred way to spend Christmas.

try to put youself in your husband's shoes and see it from his point of view. It sounds like he doesn't relish Christmas with your family and has asked to see his parents. As another person said upthread, it's more about doing this for DH than for PILS. Try to rent a holiday cottage and make it an adventure, I'm sure you could make it fun for your DCS. Good luck with whatever you decide.

You also have the other thing to consider-you love your large noisy Christmases. But actually does dh?

Dh's family like to have that. It's okay sometimes but actually I find it a bit overwhelming. I didn't say anything for years, and dh assumed I thought his Christamses with siblings, parents, cousins, a few extra hangers on and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all was as wonderful as he found it. Actually I find it quite stressful. They all have the expectations you join in with gusto and I would be longing for bed with a book by half way through the afternoon.

And as the children have got older and become more inclined to give their preferences, to my surprise, they prefer a quieter Christmas too. They would choose to stay at our home and have just us or go to my parents where it's not as hectic.

So just because you think it's wonderful and amazing and the Way Christmas Should be Done doesn't mean the rest of the family thinks so. It took several years of me making hints to dh before I had to tell him straight and he'd never guessed. We were both surprised to find the children felt the same way-I'd never said anything in front of them either so it wasn't them parroting me.

it was really shit having to travel to relatives at christmas and being bored and travel sick and stuffy.