Am I being unreasonable about Christmas plans?

[Grumpyaboutchristmas]

Genuinely would like views. I've name changed as with all other info from previous posts this could be quite identifying.

My family loves Christmas. We do big celebrations, not flash but lots of family and we love the tree, decorations and the whole day together. Husband's family not so bothered. They aren't that close, we've rarely done Christmas together and there has now been a family fall out with one of the in law siblings so no more big dos.

MIL and FIL in different care homes hundreds of miles away from us (different needs). We wanted them to move near us from years ago (so we could look after them in their old age) but they refused. Now they are in care homes we asked if they would move to care homes nearer to us (or one of the other siblings) so we can help care for them, bring them here for meals, do shopping etc for them, bring the kids to see them and so on. They refused.

I get that it would be quite disorientating to move when they are so old, but their quality of life would be immeasurably better. They have few friends and even fewer visitors. All of us live miles away from them and have family, work and other life commitments which means the weekend round trip to spend time in a hotel with care home visits is pretty unrewarding. They are quite old and also old fashioned and have never been hands on with the kids, and to be honest are anecdotally interested in the children but not so much in real life. The kids bring stuff to do when we are there but there's little interaction. To be fair, that's not anyone's fault, it's just the way it is and always was, even before the in laws had to go into homes.

So this year my family are already planning what to do at Christmas (don't judge us, I know it's early but my sibling and husband work shifts which they need to work around). We arrange to meet either for Christmas or for another date in between to celebrate it. We usually do Christmas day with my family just because we love it and husband's family aren't bothered. This year though, husband has suggested we go to his family. It would mean staying in a hotel near them in Xmas eve, with no tree or decorations (in rooms at least) for Christmas Eve or morning, followed by ferrying his mum to lunch in a restaurant, which would be quite low key and reserved (as it always is), followed by visit to granddad (who can't come out his home any more), followed by back to hotel. We would have to bring presents but somehow hide them from the kids - we don't have the biggest car in the world and it would be tricky to say the least. It just feels so unchristmassy. I don't want to do it but feel awful saying that. I think we make Christmas really special for the kids and i don't think that day sounds special. I'd be happy to do this any day but Christmas Day (and do, willingly, and encourage visits usually).

So AIBU to say we go to my family and not his, but go to his family on 27th once we're back? It might mean that his parents are alone in their care homes on Xmas day. One of his siblings did Christmas Day with them several years in a row (I don't think they brought the family with them though) and I don't think the others would do it at all. It makes me feel terrible to think of the in laws alone, but I also feel, somewhat terribly, that if they had moved to be near us then there wouldn't be this issue (we'd have Xmas morning here, and then bring them here, visit grandad etc). We'd have control and we could make it special for them and for the kids. In a random hotel, with Christmas dinner in a random pub or restaurant, we can't do that. The fact that they refused, in my view somewhat pigheadedly, to move anywhere near any of their children has created a situation where Christmas with young children and them is nigh on impossible to accommodate. We did say that our wings were clipped by the distance and logistics and we can't help or do as much from this distance, and I guess that includes things like Christmas. AIBU?

When your Dh was a child did his parents take him on Christmas Day to visit elderly relatives?

I would go and see them during the Christmas season - 27th Dec as you say. I would prioritise the children you only get a few magical Christmases when you are a child (3-10 in my view) after that it's lovely but not the same.

Couldn't you celebrate 27th at home as if it were 25th? Would the kids know? Just start opening the 1st door of your advent calendar on the actual 3rd December.

When I was 6 my parents had the same kind of dilema. So they delayed the Big Day by 2 days and my sistervand I were absolutely none the wiser

When I was 9 Christmas Day was delayed by a week as my Dad was away working. It was actually really bloody great knowing you were unwrapping your presents and having lovely food and feeling festive when for everyone else it was all over. Even some peoples' trees had come down!

I think you can make it 'magical' in a different way.

Your DH has suggested a rare visit to his parents for Christmas, I think you'd be very, very unreasonable to not go.

You can make Christmas wonderful for your children wherever you are. Yes it will be different to being with your family but for goodness sake, your H should be allowed to spend a Chrsitmas day with his family.

I think DH going on the day sounds like the best solution so far.

If DH's parents are like mine, they enjoy the concept of DS, but really they aren't so good at interacting with them and it's often easier to do visits just me. Also this way they'll get DH on Christmas day and the rest of you the day or so after.

Much easier than trying to recreate magic in a soulless hotel room and much cheaper than forking out for a holiday cottage at Christmas rates.

Yes Christmas is a time of giving and thinking of others, but it doesn't mean in my view, that you have to martyr yourself or your DCs. This is a practical and cost effective solution that works for everyone.

How many hours away are his parents?

I think that if he could leave after presents & have Christmas lunch with his mum that would be lovely.

Or Boxing Day lunch with her if the above doesn't work?

Not a hope.

Christmas is mainly for the CHILDREN & yours are an amazing age for Christmas.

Two adults who chose not to really celebrate Christmas nor to move closer to you do NOT get to spoil your children's Christmas. No way.

You can see them another day, it makes no difference.

Explain that as kindly, but firmly, as you can to your DH, but do not budge, even if it means 'having words'.

Think carefully before suggesting splitting up for the day/part of it.

I don't think DH going on the day is at all ideal. It's Christmas, he shoukd be sending it with HIS CHILDREN not his controlling sulking mother who never made much if Christmas in the past. Totally different if Christmas had always been a big deal to her.

I have a similar but different situation:

My family and I love Christmas and It is so precious to me to spend it with them. Big country house, open fire, lovely food and surrounded by everyone I love.

When we were first married we alternated with DH family and I hated it. His parents are divorced and there was always some unpleasant emotional drama. The house is too small to fit everyone and the food was terrible too.

Now my mum is terminally ill with cancer and every Christmas might be her last (it's a genuine miracle she's still here). MIL generously conceded that alternating isn't required and I am so relieved but I feel a little bad for DH and MIL. But not bad enough to sacrifice my Christmas.

They are at separate ends of the country so half a day each isn't possible. Our house is way too small to fit everyone and mum needs adaptations now.

We do one day over the Christmas period with the in laws eg lunch out at a hotel. Even that usually results in some major drama over who is or isn't coming.

I feel mean that DH's sister is pretty much tied to having their mum at Christmas because of me but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

So from my biased position I think you should do whatever makes the most people happy.

From my work I spend loads of times in care homes and hospital wards and there is always an effort to make Christmas special. Many people don't have any family and we would use the donations fund to get them a little something. As long as she has presents, cards, a phone call and a visit at some point I wouldn't think she will be really unhappy. Being alone in her own home would be much worse.

I do get your resentment that they didn't move. My lovely granny had a happy and full retired life but 5 hours difficult drive away from her only son. when she was widowed she up sticks left it all behind and moved into a flat opposite our young family. Quickly made new friends but also totally involved in our family, picked us up from school enabling mum to work part time, I would pop in for coffee and a chat when I was a teen and she met my boyfriends "if I was 60 years younger".

It was such a sensible decision am going to try and emulate if I get that far.

I never agree with the sentiment that Christmas is for children. I think Christmas is for everyone who enjoys it.

The pre wrapped presents could be put in the car in bin bags or even a duvet cover? Tell the DC it's extra bedding

This idea of Pinkisssimos completely solved the present problem. Hope you saw it OP.

I think one year of a slightly odd Christmas won't hurt the children. Sometimes it's good to have a change. Christmas is still Christmas all over the world.

I have a child of the same age and due baby 2 at Christmas. Truthfully I (and my family) have prioritised Christmas to be about my child. Host Christmas in our house so that it all goes ahead with my family, regardless of me being there or dashing of to hospital.

My mum feels it is unfair to get kids all hyped up, give them presents and then drag them away from them to go visiting people. I have done it once and vowed never again, that said if I am stuck in hospital with Baby2 I would like my child to visit us.
How will I feel if DC says "Daddy I want to stay with my toys and not see mummy". Ok the toys have been a hit but truthfully I'd be hurt DC doesn't want to see me.

What is the difference between being the mum of a young child who would what child to visit me in hospital and being the mum of a grown up with kids of their own? I would like to think that I would want to put my GC first and want Christmas be as special for them, as it was for me and my children. Care homes aren't the nicest of places to drag kids into and they really only believe for a few short years.

So my vote is put the kids first have a family Christmas at home. Take lots of photos and video to share with Gran later, keep a few presents back so Granny gets to see them being opened a few days later.

Bloody hell my views vascillate wildly as the comments come in. The dividing family thing isn't ideal, for sure, but not sure there is an actual 'ideal' in among all the options. DH not massively enamoured with my family and he isn't that bothered about Christmas either as it was never much celebrated in his family. Apart from in an austere religious way which doesn't appeal to either of us as complete atheists. So as much as he would love to see the kids excitement in the morning, he genuinely might love the escape and peace of the duty visit on the day. The compromise is then explaining that to the kids but they are good kids who will totally get that daddy doesn't want grandma and grandad to be alone on the big day. I'm starting to think that this is the best option, with a family visit to the in laws on the weekend before Christmas (or the 22/23rd if that doesn't fall on a weekend this year).

Getting old and infirm is bloody awful, but I genuinely hope I can tread that path in as selfless a way as possible, rather than from a bitter, guilt ridden perspective. I'm hopeful because I feel that my life is great, despite the comparatively minor things thrown at us, and I will hopefully enter old age feeling satisfied in myself and what my life has achieved. Sadly, and possibly through their own childhood and life experiences, I don't think my in laws are like that, I do think they are bitter, a bit entitled, and feel the world (and in particular their own children) should revolve around them despite making zero effort to accommodate us and our lives themselves.

RHiwrites - I did see Pink's comments but our boot is small and can only just get a big case in with not much else around it. Our children are not really at the age of vouchers or space saving toys/items yet so things tend to be quite bulky (and tat-tastic, dare I say it, though my tat is a 5 year old's treasure for sure). I think it would be genuinely difficult, if not impossible, to transport Christmas in our car, with or without the kids noticing. But there are other ways that other people have helpfully pointed out, like couriers or sending gifts ahead of time to another address etc. Were that to be the choice, and I sense it won't be, then this issue could be gotten around definitely.

Bear in mind if FIL is in a secure dementia unit now he may well have been suffering from early dementia 5 years ago. People with dementia are bad at making decisions and can lash out when they get confused.

Your MIL may have 'given in' to not trying to convince him to move...only for him then to need care and her to become too ill to move.

You never know what goes on behind closed doors, there could be far more to the story than you realise (my grandad got violent towards my grandma with early dementia. Nobody knew until he went into a home).

Christmas is a Sunday, 23rd a Friday.

Surely your DH wants to spend the day with you and kids? I would think it is weird if DH went of visiting alone on Christmas day.

Is there any other family who would visit Mil on Christmas day?

The one thing I would ask myself in your shoes, is if you would feel differently if the in laws were your parents.

Your DH has done it your way for many years and his family is somewhat splintered. I think you should do what he thinks is best, this time.

Batteries - you make a really valid point, I think you are absolutely on the money in terms of FIL resisting a move and in retrospect he was almost certainly in the early stages then (his increasing infirmity, albeit undiagnosed, was part of what prompted the discussions about moving). But it's MIL who continues to resist now and has done since FIL been admitted. I do understand all that about dislocating from all that is familiar, but surely one would prefer a life where your family is round the corner to help you (possibly daily?), does your shopping (which you still ask us to do from hundreds of miles), changes your light bulbs, sorts your broadband, takes you to see FIL several times a week (they'd be on the same site potentially so could be taken there easily after work), brings you home for dinner en famille as often in the week as you would like, takes you to children's school productions/events and overall envelops you in all aspects of family life in your dotage. AIBU to think that all that would trump the potential dislocation from some random church contacts who visit you every couple of months when you see no one but family in between? I guess I'm insulted if it does, however unreasonable that sounds. And if you don't want that family life, sounds truly harsh but you may actually have to spend Christmas on your own.

There. I've said it. I know that's incredibly bitchy and horrible and unkind. But they are my darkest thoughts which I'm working though right now.

If Christmas is for every one who enjoys it, and the ILs have never previously gone to any lengths to enjoy it, that rather implies it shouldn't be about them.

If the PIL had travelled down to the OPs house in earlier years in order to see the children and enjoy Christmas with their son, bringing tat presents aplenty, I imagine this dilemma wouldn't even arise and they would be visiting them now.

You get what you give at Christmas as at other times.

We're fairly lucky that my parents and DP's parents are only 10 minutes drive away from each other. However we live in the North East (they're in the North West) and our house is better suited to them coming to us. We do actually alternate with my parents though as there are 4 siblings, so we take turns to have them for Christmas or Boxing Day or New Years. DP's an only child so we get his parents every year.

That said, if it was a case of them being on the other side of the country to us, living in a care home and refusing all help to move closer nearby, I can certainly see why you'd want to go to your parents.

My granny and grandpa moved to Scarborough in their retirement, a good 3 or 4 hours away from home. When she was widowed, she immediately moved back home and bought a house across the road from us and became deeply involved in our every day lives. I used to love going to her house when I was a kid.

Grumpy I do understand. But it is incredibly hard to move someone with dementia, and MIL might not want to be separated a great distance from him. My grandma wouldn't leave the town where my grandad was. He died relatively young in the end so she then moved to be near a daughter. But if he had clung on to 90 - she'd had stayed in a not-accessible-to-anyone location, in a different home.

My parents were very worried about that happening at the time but moving grandad just never happened. It was too hard.

MrEBear - we are all as far flung and all going through the same debates at the moment, one sibling has said quite rightly it is not their turn because they (alone, without family) have done Xmas day two years in a row. The others are having the same conversations as DH and I now I imagine.

Brasty - yes I would be the same with my parents if they had refused the options we provided. I was very willing to take on the lions share of their care for the rest of their lives if they moved closer to us. It would have fallen to me to organise just because DH is a bloke (sorry to generalise) and not that sensitive to their needs, and because I work fewer hours and undertake most of the childcare. I could have easily combined the two though and the kids would have benefitted hugely from the close grwndparent connections, as would the in laws. I genuinely feel insulted that this was thrown back in our faces when they continue to expect so much from afar. If my parents were so selfish I would certainly feel the same too, albeit I accept the tinge of guilt may be larger.

Batteries - there is a wonderful place near to us which could take them both, in different parts of the site. We were on the waiting list for years for the Sheltered accommodation section but they have several care home units on site too, they would be closer to each other and she could see him every day instead of every few weeks when one or other family member comes to visit. She can no longer go alone, even in a taxi, as she needs assistance with mobility. Why she would turn down that opportunity is beyond me.