Am I being unreasonable about Christmas plans?

[Grumpyaboutchristmas]

Genuinely would like views. I've name changed as with all other info from previous posts this could be quite identifying.

My family loves Christmas. We do big celebrations, not flash but lots of family and we love the tree, decorations and the whole day together. Husband's family not so bothered. They aren't that close, we've rarely done Christmas together and there has now been a family fall out with one of the in law siblings so no more big dos.

MIL and FIL in different care homes hundreds of miles away from us (different needs). We wanted them to move near us from years ago (so we could look after them in their old age) but they refused. Now they are in care homes we asked if they would move to care homes nearer to us (or one of the other siblings) so we can help care for them, bring them here for meals, do shopping etc for them, bring the kids to see them and so on. They refused.

I get that it would be quite disorientating to move when they are so old, but their quality of life would be immeasurably better. They have few friends and even fewer visitors. All of us live miles away from them and have family, work and other life commitments which means the weekend round trip to spend time in a hotel with care home visits is pretty unrewarding. They are quite old and also old fashioned and have never been hands on with the kids, and to be honest are anecdotally interested in the children but not so much in real life. The kids bring stuff to do when we are there but there's little interaction. To be fair, that's not anyone's fault, it's just the way it is and always was, even before the in laws had to go into homes.

So this year my family are already planning what to do at Christmas (don't judge us, I know it's early but my sibling and husband work shifts which they need to work around). We arrange to meet either for Christmas or for another date in between to celebrate it. We usually do Christmas day with my family just because we love it and husband's family aren't bothered. This year though, husband has suggested we go to his family. It would mean staying in a hotel near them in Xmas eve, with no tree or decorations (in rooms at least) for Christmas Eve or morning, followed by ferrying his mum to lunch in a restaurant, which would be quite low key and reserved (as it always is), followed by visit to granddad (who can't come out his home any more), followed by back to hotel. We would have to bring presents but somehow hide them from the kids - we don't have the biggest car in the world and it would be tricky to say the least. It just feels so unchristmassy. I don't want to do it but feel awful saying that. I think we make Christmas really special for the kids and i don't think that day sounds special. I'd be happy to do this any day but Christmas Day (and do, willingly, and encourage visits usually).

So AIBU to say we go to my family and not his, but go to his family on 27th once we're back? It might mean that his parents are alone in their care homes on Xmas day. One of his siblings did Christmas Day with them several years in a row (I don't think they brought the family with them though) and I don't think the others would do it at all. It makes me feel terrible to think of the in laws alone, but I also feel, somewhat terribly, that if they had moved to be near us then there wouldn't be this issue (we'd have Xmas morning here, and then bring them here, visit grandad etc). We'd have control and we could make it special for them and for the kids. In a random hotel, with Christmas dinner in a random pub or restaurant, we can't do that. The fact that they refused, in my view somewhat pigheadedly, to move anywhere near any of their children has created a situation where Christmas with young children and them is nigh on impossible to accommodate. We did say that our wings were clipped by the distance and logistics and we can't help or do as much from this distance, and I guess that includes things like Christmas. AIBU?

Oh and if you do end up travelling, get a car-top box. You can load it up the night before with presents etc. so that no DC get a look inside. Like this (but you can normally get them much cheaper second-hand):
www.halfords.com/motoring/roof-bars-roof-boxes/roof-boxes/halfords-250l-roof-box-grey

Thanks to everyone for their replies. Sorry, been eating and chatting to partner.

Lots of talk about location up thread. Family based in a particular area and kids moved away, so yes the in laws have always lived as adults in that area (give or take). But yes we did ask them if they wanted to move closer to us many years ago, when they were getting on but very much independent and healthy. They indicated that they wanted to and I personally did a lot of work visiting and videoing sheltered accommodation and places close to us which might suit and feeding back the results and getting them on and monitoring waiting lists. But when it came to to crunch they said no. I resented the wasted time for sure. I was on mat leave, I did it all with two babies in tow, I'm still pretty cross about that. I know I need to let it go.

Things are different now, but as their health has deteriorated (difficult to have MIL at home overnight, she's very disabled now, and obvs impossible for FIL with dementia) we have said that it's difficult to commit to looking after them properly (and as they request/insist) at such a distance. And with the choice about maintaining that distance from us and all other siblings, made when of sound mind, comes the knowledge that we can't always be there, that it won't always be convenient. We visit a lot and my husband does absolutely everything for them from a Distance, managing FILs care right though to doing all manner of paperwork for MIL. Kids go regularly too. We are overall very supportive. But you're right, I am still bloody angry that they ask for so much support which is an incredible strain from afar. They have absolutely no idea how much strain or how much work it takes behind the scenes, how difficult it is to drop everything and attend a care meeting many hours away, they don't realise just how many hours we work professionally around all that, they take it all for granted and I think they believe it is 'owed'. In my view, if they want that sort of care and support, they should have moved closer to the person doing that work to facilitate it.

As things go currently, it runs on guilt and tiredness from both of us and a lot of resentment from me. And although Christmas is a different beast entirely, I feel so strongly that with all this as background, we should prioritise the kids over them. Sounds brutal, but that's how I feel. And to the person who said I hope your son visits you? I wouldn't dream of expecting my kids to look after me, not when I've seen the burden it creates. I would move closer, or gracefully accept the limitations of not doing so. I would not want their own family's developing wings to be clipped.

Catz, you are a legend, thank you so much for all your suggestions, and to everyone else's helpful comments and suggestions too. Im going to look all this up tomorrow when fresher, these ideas could well hold the answer. I'm hearing all the selfish comments and taking them on board, truly. Im also using this as a means of sounding off in a way I wouldnt dream of doing in real life.

Why would they have moved when they were not elderly? Presumably they had friends and a social life there?

YANBU. DH and I both come from military families. We both spent every, and I mean every, Christmas travelling all over the country ( and across some) making everyone else happy. When we had DC my MIL said to us to make sure we didn't do the same. They would always be happy to see us, but do what was right for our family at that time. I love my MIL for saying this to us. As a young child my DH and I both remember the awful feeling of having to leave our Christmas presents and being made to visit everyone else. At that age all you want is to be free to play with your long awaited presents.

Lots of people work in healthcare, the police service and other jobs where you might have to work Christmas. If I worked on Christmas Day, I just celebrated a different day. So as long as the driving isn't unmanageable you can do Christmas with your family and Christmas with the in laws, it's just not everyone will get to see you on Christmas Day itself - could be Boxing Day, 27th instead - it's still a day over the Christmas period.

Sounds like for FIL which day it is may not matter to him, MIL will get some sort of festive meal, celebration and company in her care home, whereas your kids are at an age where doing things on Christmas Day itself actually matters to them. I would prioritize the kids and do a fun Christmas with your family, and do the trip to the in laws a few days before or after. I agree Christmas in a budget hotel will be miserable and trying to eat out when lots of small businesses and cafes will be closed will be a pain.

If your husband feels very strongly about things, that's different, and compromise may be in order, otherwise the most people get the best time if you do things as above. If you visit the in laws, FIL if he's very demented may not get the benefit of it being Christmas Day rather than 27th, you and the kids could have a miserable time, possibly MIL and your husband may enjoy it.

If not everyone is going to get exactly what they want, then it's weighing up the pros and cons of each option. Renting a cottage is a lovely idea - could be expensive, would it mean you'd miss out on a summer holiday though? If so, would you mind?

I agree with Wayfarer on this. This is a very special time in your children's lives when you are building up the traditions of Christmas and it's a truly magical time for them. Most people I know don't feel Christmas has the same significance once the children are grown and it becomes more of a time for just relaxing and eating/drinking etc. I'm sure your MIL's home will make it a special time and she can have your visit on the 27th to look forward to. My view might be a bit different if the PIL had a a really close relationship with your DC but they don't and it wouldn't be very festive for them to be dragged off to the care homes on Christmas Day. Give the kids the fun of playing with cousins and getting excited and silly.
Tell DH you know he wants to be a good son but he needs to go with the greater good. And does he want to cope with bored kids.
Good luck

I like the cottage idea too. We are financially fine, but it would impact on another break for sure, but that would not be a consideration. I totally think that this is a situation to prioritise financial imput if it can keep more people happy, or happier. I'm going to investigate that more tomorrow.

Nowhere near center parcs unfortunately! Otherwise that would be well worth it, the kids would bloody love it.

Honestly, I think it was unreasonable to expect them to up sticks and move to you. Maybe they shouldn't have lead you on thinking they would move, but it's where they'd always been based why should they move?

They can't expect you to necessarily move down to them either, but going to visit them when they're old and frail in a home seems just the right thing to do.

I feel you're holding a lot of resentment for something that's a bit unreasonable, if I'm honest.

BTW husband not wedded to any idea, he is blissfully reasonable and wants to work towards a solution that suits us as a family. He's so much more reasonable than i am. I love him a little bit more today just because he has been so bloody mature about it all in the face of me being the opposite.

If you do go for the holiday cottage, could you get a roof rack to carry the presents and some decorations to make it more Christmassy?

Cross posted with your update - you're doing a lot already, more than many families do. You're not selfish or neglecting anyone. Caregiver stress can be a real problem in these situations and you have to look after yourselves too. Enjoy Christmas with your kids the way you want to.

Piratefairy78's comment about people traveling across the country is true for lots of people - I had a friend who hated it so much she used to volunteer to work on Christmas Day every year as her family live one end of the country and her husband's the other end. By working she avoided guilt tripping and long drives to see one lot Christmas Day and the other lot Boxing Day - she had her own Christmas at home on Boxing day with friends instead.

I read somewhere that the parents PILs chose to remain in the area they spent their entire married life. I can imagine that they lovingly got a house in which to bring up their family and it would be hard to leave that house until there was no other safe option. They may have downsized but remained in much the same area. It is so hard to walk away.
This is where OP's DP lived his childhood and will have a bit of a tie for him too and he may be looking at the future thinking once the parents are gone his childhood place will no longer be the same.
Many older people don't actually realise that they are
getting older and more limited until they are very limited.
I have spent Christmas day in hospital from 12 to 8. Not one other relative came. I did not get so much as a bar of chocolate all that day. The hospital did not provide any food, not that I was really expecting any. I am always the driver so always fit to drive. Not one family member offered me left overs or a sandwich if I even went to their houses to collect it. I should let that go but not to see any other relative or have a bite to eat on Christmas day was a real deal breaker for me.
Christmas can be a very hard time for someone in hospital or a Care Home and just as hard for one person who visits that patient.
This is not a very nice lesson to teach your children

But isn't there also a lesson that caring for parents is not obligatory, that you can do it but it has to be a compromise? I certainly don't want my kids to feel the kind of one sided obligation my partner does to his parents. I don't feel it for mine, they are currently well and independent but would not dream of doing what his parents have by insisting on massive support from their far flung children, often guilt tripping and playing one off against the other. My parents are already looking into sheltered accommodation with care home options for the future to avoid this, they don't want to be a burden and have made it clear they won't allow themselves to be. Isn't this is a lesson too? Don't you also make your bed and lie in it, even if you are physically infirm but mentally bloody sharp as a razor?

I definitely don't want to teach my kids that horrible parental guilt trips are normal life, I'll protect them from that as long as I can.

Maybe do New Year with them?

It's a good idea but don't think they would be bothered about that, they go to bed really early and they have never celebrated NYE at all, even before infirmity hit. If we didn't do Christmas, I think going on Boxing Day or 27th would be more appreciated than NYE.

If it's any help, they don't really have friends, they have always been socially completely anti social, although some church connections do still visit occasionally. It's really sad. They didn't even get on that well together either, but that doesn't mean the dislocation from each other is any easier after 60 odd years in the same house.

I think it would be massively unfair on your children to do this.

I don't think it's unreasonable for your dh to have one Christmas with them.
Depending on the age of your dc you can probably make it an
Adventure.

We always went to my dgran's for Christmas. Don't ask me how but my dp's managed to get us,all in the Mini including stocking presents without us knowing. I suspect sometimes we travelled Dow with our feet on them!
We always had our presents to each other when we got back, again that was great because we had more presents to come.

What I've done when the dc are old enough to understand when we've been away had been we spoke to FC and asked if he could just bring a couple of things on the day and could he deliver the rest when we get back.
Lovely chap told the children to ring a bell the evening we got back and sprinkle fairy dust (glitter ) outside.
Gives two Christmas days, and the children love it. Now they're older they actually prefer that.

I have visited my gran both in hospital and in care homes on Christmas day and after she died, I have been thankful I did. Yes, she didn't know it was Christmas day always, yes we went back to a tiny undecorated house we were staying in, but it was something we did for her that mattered.

I have spent Christmas day in hospital from 12 to 8. Not one other relative came. I did not get so much as a bar of chocolate all that day. The hospital did not provide any food, not that I was really expecting any. I am always the driver so always fit to drive. Not one family member offered me left overs or a sandwich if I even went to their houses to collect it. I should let that go but not to see any other relative or have a bite to eat on Christmas day was a real deal breaker for me.

Were you a patient or a visitor? I'm struggling to envisage this situation? Did the family members who didn't offer you a sandwich know you were in hospital for 8 hours on Christmas Day?

Rollonsummer - i may be wrong but suspect that there may be more to that family set up than meets the eye, it sounds like the family were close to the hospital (in order to have the ability to offer the sandwich?) which would definitely seem more odd to be the only one at the hospital or not be offered a place at Christmas lunch. Our issue is the distance to travel to and from those places, there would be absolutely no issue fitting those on Xmas day were they a stone's throw away - you'd get morning to do FC and could do family Xmas meal when you get back. That sounds selfish typing it but this is thinking about what my kids would like on Xmas day (a bubble of time to play with their bits under the tree, unrushed, in their PJs) rather than what me and DH want.

The bell and fairy dust sprinkling is a lovely one though, they would buy that for sure, it's going in the mix - thank you.

I totally get it. It's really hard to contemplate sacrificing a special day that you know your DCs love and so do you, in order to visit people who from the sounds of it never interacted or gave much joy through their presence even when they were able to. Just because someone is old it doesnt automatically trump all and I agree your Christmas at home will be great and one in a travel lodge or rented cottage not to much.

Could your DH go on his own? Maybe drive down after present opening (still early) and then you all drive down to meet him the following day?
I totally get the sense of duty I feel I ought to see my parents on Christmas Day even though its not a big day for them and they would never make me feel guilty about it. I do that to myself.

Of course Christmas is about the children- certainly Christmas Eve/ day!!! And not in a million years would I sacrifice that for my children. But maybe your husband is feeling overwhelmed by your family - and the solution could be your own Christmas at home, with visits before or after Christmas to see both his relatives and yours, plenty to time for them to play with cousins over the Christmas holidays! But you can't try to do FC and bring a 5 and 6 year old to a miserable hotel just to be able to see any relative on Christmas Day. The kids should've at home enjoying their day!

Hi rookie, we've discussed him travelling there on his own after present opening, but I really feel we want him with us on Christmas Day? Well aware I am now sounding like a child but I think daddy being there on Xmas day, if at all possible in the circs, is a good thing? But it's definitely in the mix- though at the moment I feel it's all of us or none of us, don't really want to divide our little family unit on the day if I can help it.

If we did it from my family home (my parents, with everyone there), I've worked out it wouldn't be that much different in terms of distance and travel, so that's a possible option - we all go to my parents and DH travels to and from his folks on the day. Kids get morning with FC, DH and all the cousins and family, in laws get a visit, and we can all visit the in laws as a family possibly the weekend before to make our 'Christmas dinner with grandma and present giving' trip. Typing that, this option might actually work for everyone - DH does get rather cabin fevered in the thick of my family, a day on the motorway with music and quiet after a lovely family morning might actually be his Christmas day of choice!

I really feel like this thread has helped to focus my thoughts on this so huge thank for all the differing views.

Realise my last post was a complete think aloud moment - it's all or nothing one para followed swiftly by 'oh dividing and ruling could actually work' in the next. Just goes to show I'm taking all the advice on board and thing it through in real time.

I can completely understand why you want to do it your way. It sounds far more enjoyable.

But it sounds like Christmas is always done your way, and probably will be most often in the future? What's one year out of so many?

It's a pretty great lesson for kids - sometimes you have to put yourself out for other people, because it's a kind thing to do.

YANBU

With having older teenagers now, I think you need to make the most of the special Christmases while the kids are so young and still "believe"

However, I understand that your DH wants to see his parents this year as he probably feels time is running out but could you not allocate Boxing Day for his parents?

We have DHs family who live a good hour away and we spent Xmas day with my family and then Boxing Day we visit his parents. We pretend Boxing Day is Christmas Day and do presents and have a meal with all the trimmings. If it won't feel very Christmassy on Xmas day anyway with DHs parents then that could be a good compromise going on Boxing Day?

I understand your views as I wouldn't be looking forward to the day as you have described especially if you are used to being with your close family who love to get into the Christmas spirit!