to think my DN was cruel and to punish her?

[mendimoo]

I look after my niece and nephew everyday before and after school as their parents work long hours. Today is DNs 9th birthday. DN has just started in Reception and DN is year 4. My nephew has been great with not asking to help open presents (my niece always nags him to let her help him) and really kind in making her a card off his own back, asking to bake her a cake and picking her a gift from his own piggy bank.

My niece had a few gifts at my house this morning (from me and grandparents) that her parents had said it was okay for her to open before school. One of the presents was wrapped in Frozen wrapping paper. My niece detests Frozen and actually sneered when she saw the paper. My nephew LOVES Frozen. He asked if he could please have the wrapping paper so he could use it to make a picture. She snatched it up and screwed it into a ball then dropped it into the dogs water bowl

My nephew sobbed and went into school crying for the first time since starting, saying he doesn't understand why his sister is so mean to him. I spoke to her and told her how unkind she was but she shrugged and was unrepentant. I was going to take her out for cake and bowling after school but I feel like cancelling now. DP thinks it was normal sibling behaviour but I think she was cruel and shouldn't be allowed to continue to be like that (she has form.) Her parents are unreachable unless it's an emergency and I have permission to punish as I see fit. WIBU to cancel tonight?

Not your place to punish this in my opinion but if I was looking after my niece and nephew I would hope to have the kind of relationship where I could discuss this with their parents. My daughter really would rather she didn't have a younger sibling and it is very difficult to get parenting right in this situation.

both my 8 and 9 year old make each other cry at times and can be completely spiteful, yet they also love each other to bits and can be really tender and sweet to each other. Yes theyre old enough to know better and of course it would be better if they were nice to each other all the time, but im also realistic and cant imagine cancelling one of their birthdays over something so trivial. How damaging would that be.

I would carry on with the birthday as normal, but have a conversation with the parents about it and let them discipline. I would also definitely have a second conversation with your niece and reiterate how mean it was to upset her brother like that. I don't think you should change the birthday plans or take money off her to buy new paper. If she had broken something of his though, then yes, but it was her paper so I'm not sure she should pay to replace her own paper. Obviously she should have given it nicely but I don't think her paying for new paper is in any way going to solve the issue. I think her parents should decide punishment.

I wouldn't call that normal sibling behaviour.

Not in my house. I would have been be very upset if either of mine had ever behaved like that.
I would withhold some treat or money from her - maybe not an actual birthday treat, in case it backfired on the little boy, but something very soon afterwards, something that will really make her realise that actions have consequences.
I would certainly not brush it under the carpet.

DP is right and you should leave it now you have told her.
needs no punishment, especially on her birthday.
The paper is pence in Primark, they can't give the stuff away, why would anybody suggest they don't have dessert? What a stupid suggestion.

Gettinglike I think her attitude is part of a wider picture. Maybe she feels resentful towards her brother for being sweet and cute (who knows). I felt jealous of my sister growing up and I'm sure she did of me, and I definitely feel that this was in no small part due to the poor management of situations from our parents. They would favour, blame, and praise when it wasn't right to, and instead of encouraging kind or friendly behaviour they would totally overreact with punishing which only made child in the wrong far more resentful and wanting to "get back" at the other some other time. It didn't work and it pitted us against each other all the more.

I think the poster who said encouraging her to be kind and feel the pleasure of putting right what she did and seeing her brother happy is on better lines.

Treggle - can you see how the OP's niece is getting favourable treatment from her parents, because they are afraid of her kicking off? From what the OP has said, the little boy is not getting equal treatment from his parents - that is what I think is unacceptable in this situation.

'Normal' does not mean 'acceptable'. 5yr difference between my DC. DS2 is quite sensitive, to be honest, quite melodramatic. DS1 winds him quite often. Not exactly spiteful, but sometimes utterly idiotic things. Like it appears a 'fun' thing at the time to trip DS2 on the stairs, without thinking that this is not just mean, but very dangerous.
Back to OP, i wouldn't cancel birthday, but take away some non-birthday related thing, e.g. Screen time.

Not acceptable in my house, I'm the type to cancel a birthday for something like this. There's one thing having an argument or what have you, but this was deliberately spiteful, not behaviour that I'd tolerate from a 9 year old - and towards a 4 yo to top it off. Really mean, I'd be having very strong words and probably would cancel plans. Do something nice with your nephew while they're away, with the money you would have spent on bowling!

"both my 8 and 9 year old make each other cry at times and can be completely spiteful, yet they also love each other to bits and can be really tender and sweet to each other. Yes theyre old enough to know better and of course it would be better if they were nice to each other all the time, but im also realistic and cant imagine cancelling one of their birthdays over something so trivial. How damaging would that be?"

I think you are right, Branleuse - but I do think there should be some consequence for the girl's behaviour - for me, a telling-off, and buying the wrapping paper for the boy, instead of dessert at bowling would be reasonable.

However, I am sure that you treat both your children equally and fairly, and from what the OP says, this isn't the case for her niece and nephew. She has said that he wouldn't get to go away with just his parents for a treat, as his sister does, because she would make too much of a fuss - and it sounds as if this is symptomatic of how the two children are treated in general by their parents - that is wrong, surely?

She has said that he wouldn't get to go away with just his parents for a treat, as his sister does, because she would make too much of a fuss
Isn't it a 'classic' parenting advice that parents should spend some alone time with DC1 so he/she doesn't feel pushed out by DC2?

Have you told her it was spitefull what she did?

My ds can be mean and fight. They are 7 and 10. But if they was spitefull to each other theyd get a bollocking and told that what they did was spitefull unkind and if they acted like that to other people theybwouldnt have any friends. Because its true.

I was just wondering if shes ever pulled up on her behaviour

Agree, itsmine.

Skipping dessert to go and buy wrapping paper? Fgs. The 4-year-old probably couldn't care less about the paper anymore, and would be .

Way to drag something out and ruin a birthday celebration for everyone.

I know everyone is different, but I am a bit shocked that the parents are taking DD away for the weekend and leaving DS behind, my DD is 5 and DS will be 2 in November yes there are things I would love to do with DD but DS isn't old enough yet, but I wouldn't dream of leaving DS behind we are a family and that's that.
I find it very upsetting how your DN won't get the same treatment in case your DN kicks off, she isn't a only child anymore, but that's not her fault it's her parents for allowing it to be like that.

Poor DNephew . He sounds a really nice caring little boy OP and I am pleased that, if he has to spend the weekend anywhere , its with you as you sound caring . The parents are enabling her by the sound of it .. How upset he must be that they take their DD for these trips but not their DS on his own :( As my Great Nan would say "They are making a rod for their own back". I would still take her , as DN I assume would be going on the birthday outing ? but I really would have words with your DS or DB because one day it may be DNephew who pulls them up, and wants answers as to why his big sister was treated so obviously different .

I'd have been quite firm with her this morning and told her it was really unkind but probably would have left it at that. I certainly wouldn't be cancelling a birthday treat.

Just out of curiosity, what trip away are her parents taking her on that your nephew can't enjoy as well? That just seems a bit odd to me but hey ho.

Well, i have 3DC so taking only one for a certain thing at a time, or sharing them for activities with DH seems only fair thing to do, purely for logistical reasons or that only DS1 (12) is old enough to go to certain places.

Your nephew sounds lovely. And he still wants to make his sister things for her birthday even though she treats him like shit. The fact that she is so eager to open his presents but he doesn't even ask to open hers on her birthday says a lot too.

If my children were ever so spiteful to each other I would be so so sad. And I wouldn't want to reward that behaviour with a treat at all. Of course, my children do fall out as all siblings do. But I've never ever witnessed them do anything so cold to each other like the OP's niece did to her brother.

Also, the fact that the OP's niece shrugged it off and did not care about how her actions upset her brother and how nasty it was. That just makes it a whole lot worse and the treat after school will be sending out the wrong message.

I would t cancel a birthday treat, no. I don't think the punishment would fit the crime - too severe for what wasn't that huge in terms of 'naughtiness.' It's not that unusual between siblings TBH. Whereas cancelling a birthday treat is a huge punishment.

It wasn't kind and she should have to apologise. And I'd get the nephew a replacement roll and no get her anything additional.

But cancelling her birthday treat is a big issue and wouldn't actually have any real learning benefits either. If anything it could make the resentment much worse.

Well presumably the weekend away with her parents is the birthday treat & what Op is doing is extra?

So if for example Op decides to just go out for cake or bake a cake with the nephew, I can't really see a problem with that.

Siblings do petty, mean things to each other sometimes - they're kids, they lack impulse control.

Not at age 9, normally.

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You are joking right?! I know adult siblings who can be mean and petty towards each other!!

I don't think that the "spend some time with dc1 so they don't feel pushed out by dc2" advice is meant to carry on for 5 years, Nataleejah! It certainly doesn't mean that the second child must always be treated worse than the first child.

From what the OP has said it sounds as if the nephew has never gone away for a treat with his parents, without his sister, because of the fuss she'd make - you cannot think that that is OK?

If the nephew is always losing out to his sister, because the parents are afraid of her kicking off, this will damage both children. You say that it makes sense to take only one of your children for a particular treat or share them for activities with their dad - for logistical reasons - and that makes perfect sense. But it is only fair if all the children get a fair share of the treats and their parents' attention - I am sure that you make sure that this happens for your DC, but it doesn't sound as if the OP's nephew gets treated fairly or equally by his parents - that is what makes what is happening to him wrong, whilst what happens in your family is fine.