to think my DN was cruel and to punish her?

[mendimoo]

I look after my niece and nephew everyday before and after school as their parents work long hours. Today is DNs 9th birthday. DN has just started in Reception and DN is year 4. My nephew has been great with not asking to help open presents (my niece always nags him to let her help him) and really kind in making her a card off his own back, asking to bake her a cake and picking her a gift from his own piggy bank.

My niece had a few gifts at my house this morning (from me and grandparents) that her parents had said it was okay for her to open before school. One of the presents was wrapped in Frozen wrapping paper. My niece detests Frozen and actually sneered when she saw the paper. My nephew LOVES Frozen. He asked if he could please have the wrapping paper so he could use it to make a picture. She snatched it up and screwed it into a ball then dropped it into the dogs water bowl

My nephew sobbed and went into school crying for the first time since starting, saying he doesn't understand why his sister is so mean to him. I spoke to her and told her how unkind she was but she shrugged and was unrepentant. I was going to take her out for cake and bowling after school but I feel like cancelling now. DP thinks it was normal sibling behaviour but I think she was cruel and shouldn't be allowed to continue to be like that (she has form.) Her parents are unreachable unless it's an emergency and I have permission to punish as I see fit. WIBU to cancel tonight?

[Hulababy]

Regardless this kind of issue should have been dealt with there and then and not dragged on, and a birthday treat - that presumably they are all looking forward to - on the actual Day of her birthday should not be cancelled.

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

She screwed up a bit of wrapping paper. I don't understand why this meant her brother went to school in floods of tears unless he was picking up on the dynamic from the OP. This could and should have been dealt with at the time. Apology from the niece, ask her how she can make it better, explanation to the nephew that it isn't the end of the world.

You seem overly-invested and way too partial. You're considering cancelling a birthday and have stewed about it all day. You're organising alternative outings for the nephew because you think he isn't treated fairly.

Allow their parents to parent without you trying to re-balance it to what you think is fair.

[bilboteabaggin]

It's was mean, like most kids are sometimes but I don't think you can cancel a child's birthday that isn't yours.

[Lweji]

She screwed up a bit of wrapping paper. I don't understand why this meant her brother went to school in floods of tears

Because she took it back from him instead of giving it to him as he asked, and preferred to destroy it.
It wasn't just a bit of wrapping paper. It was one he asked if he could have.

[DonkeyHotay]

My ds is 9 and I'd be unhappy if he behaved like this. I probably take him to the shop and ask him to send his own money on a replacement sheet of wrapping paper. He has a 4 year old cousin and I expect more from his behaviour.

I have an arrangement with my friend. My house my rules and the same for her house. You are a regular part of their everyday lives and as such this arrangement must work with your own family.

[OnTheEdgeOfItAll]

I would take the opportunity to talk to her. Ask her why she didn't want to give it to him, and why she went as far as destroying it. Getting to the root of the problem is more useful than punishment. If she is receptive, ask her what she thinks other people would think of what she did, and if she now regrets it. Lastly, if she is repentant, ask her what she thinks she might do as an apology for her actions.

[miaowmix]

She was a bit mean but your reaction is way off, you clearly hate your niece.
It's her birthday ffs!
And why did you buy her (babyish) Frozen paper if you knew she would hate it anyway? I don't know any 9 year old girls who would like Frozen - and yes I have a 9 year old girl and know a hell of a lot of them!

I just don't buy this whole story - you seem to have far too much responsibility for your sister (brother?)'s kids anyway - what is the mysterious job that they do that requires round the clock care?

And what do your own children make of this?
Regardless, you sound like you really dislike your niece, who is after all only 9. All siblings are annoying to their siblings in my experience anyway.

[miaowmix]

plus you sound like you hugely favour your nephew

[Nataleejah]

I don't think that the "spend some time with dc1 so they don't feel pushed out by dc2" advice is meant to carry on for 5 years, Nataleejah! It certainly doesn't mean that the second child must always be treated worse than the first child.
What if only the older child is old enough for a certain thing? Or the younger one would enjoy something that would mortify the older as 'too babyish'?

[merrymouse]

If you look after them every day after school and are responsible for birthday treats, you can certainly decide how to discipline them.

I don't think this incident on it's own is a major problem - children sometimes act badly. However, I get the impression that the adults may not all be on the same page when it comes to setting standards for behaviour. When do you have time to sit down and talk with the parents - do they listen to what you say?

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

It wasn't just a bit of wrapping paper. It was one he asked if he could have.
Yy I know but I think the nephew's response was disproportionate. And if it was ott because emotions are heightened at birthdays then that consideration should extend all round.
I have a highly-strung DS, what the OP described, wouldn't have caused sobbing all the way to school.

[mummytime]

She is very insecure, and you cancelling her treat would be very mean.

I always get apologies even if they don't mean them. It teaches them to at least go through the motions of polite behaviour.
I would also make sure that I am praising them both equally, and for effort. It's harder for her to be nice so maybe she should be praised more.
I would have also distracted her little brother to stop the screwed paper being such a big deal.

Is she your brother or sister's child? Maybe try to think back to when you were children and make sure you are not re-enacting any old family dynamics.

[Flum]

A lady I knows daughter was like this to her little brother. She was just plain nasty to him whenever she thinks no one is looking, much more rarely in public. The family is kind of dysfunctional but I am not sure what has happened to this little girl to make her so cruel. I would have a really good chat with the child about this or at least tell her parents so they can be aware. Kids mostly do that stuff when adults are not looking. With this particular little girl I mentioned before the girls parents didn't believe the boy as the girl was otherwise quite golden. They didn't believe the nanny or friends who heard their kids talking about her. Eventually they put up a video camera and after only 2 days they saw some awfulness.

They are working on sorting it out now, counselling etc, but it was quite embedded. 3 years plus. The wee boy still wets the bed and stammers, we don't know if related but not an unreasonable assumption.

Nip that shit in the bud!!!!

[treggle]

I think sobbing all the way to school is more worrying than not wanting him to have part of your birthday present
He sounds hugely indulged.

[Audreyhelp]

I agree with treggle it wasn't nice to happen but not the end of the world .
She's nine which is a difficult age pick your arguments. Really hope she has a nice birthday obviously the OP is stewing on it all day and probably stirred the nephew up and that's why he was so upset.

[JustDanceAddict]

Def get her to buy more paper out of her birthday/pocket money and also I feel bad her parents won't see her properly on her bday and I'm sure that doesn't help matters.

[sleeponeday]

But her parents do encourage her self important behaviour IMO by taking her away alone etc. They'd never just take my nephew away for a treat because my niece would kick up such a fuss.

And that, right there, is why this is such a problem IMO.

What she did was really nasty. Casually and purposefully so. But from what you've described, I don't think punishing her will work - in fact I think it will just increase her resentfulness to her brother. It will relieve your feelings and God knows I would be tempted, but I think it would be pointless in terms of getting her to empathise - because what you describe is an empathy failure.

Kids tend to become what they are told they are, when it comes to kindness, I think. Have you thought of sitting down with her and saying you were really disturbed by how casually nasty she was to him, and asking why she did it? She probably won't have an answer but you can ask then how she would feel if a 12 year old deliberately destroyed [name something of real value and attachment to her] just to hurt her feelings, when she had done nothing but be kind to them? I just think making a big song and dance over how hurtful it was, but a non-angry, disappointed, confused song and dance is likelier to at the least get it across that what she did isn't acceptable than a punishment. If you punish her it won't stop the behaviour because she'll feel too enraged and hard done by, and as her aunt and not a parent you can't sustain and reinforce the message her parents are failing to send, anyway. I think trying to spark a little empathy is likelier to be of use - however marginal.

I would try to make more of a fuss of her poor little brother though. I had a cousin who was treated like chopped liver compared to her baby sister, all their childhoods, and it was rough to witness. And "it's just sibling stuff" always makes me think of the attitudes people had to bullying, 50 odd years ago. That it was normal and seeking to intervene was pointless. Sibling bullying isn't any better - in fact in some ways it's worse because there is no escape.

[sleeponeday]

I just reread and saw that you care for them both all day out of school hours - tend to think that alters matters. If you care for them both that much then you are presumably as involved in terms of pure hours as their parents - that being so, perhaps her resentment is because you have, however unknowingly, favoured the little one? If she hates Frozen and he loves it, perhaps she resented that on the paper? Is that possible - might she get extra attention from Mum and Dad because they feel he does with you?

Those are just guesses, and I can't know what the reality is. It could be way off the mark. But I do feel punishment is pointless here if you want to alter her behaviour, because you won't alter the mindset behind it. You need to talk to her and work out what is going on with her, and why she is resenting him as she does. It could be that she is like that around you because she sees you prefer him - not saying that to upset you, because we all have our own instinctive preferences for people and he is smaller and more vulnerable... but she's only an eight year old, herself. Pretty tiny still.

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

she can demand special days out without him
But, realistically, she can't demand special days out without him. Her parents are choosing to have time with her alone. That isn't a bad parenting tactic.
OP is deeply resentful about that but that doesn't mean that the parents aren't valid in their decisions.
However, the disparity in attitudes between the OP and the parents could cause problems going forward with each always trying to compensate for the other's apparent preferences.

[yodaonthebars]

It should have been dealt with there and then this morning. You have the right to discipline in my opinion based on the hours you have them just as a childminder or teacher in school would. You also can decide over the treat if you are paying.

I think I would say tonight.

'what you did with your brother this morning was very mean. If it was any other day but your birthday I would cancel the treat. However if you say sorry and mean it we will go and get your brother a frozen colour book/magazine and then go to our treat and forget about it.

I've seen siblings be treated as favourites by parents and the end result as adults has been awful.

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

What the point in buying him a roll of wrapping paper? He only wanted it because he was there and it looked fun at the time- what's he going to do with a roll of wrapping paper?

[hoddtastic]

I think if you feel this strongly about your niece (regardless of how much you say you adore her) and about your siblings crappy parenting then you are not in the right arrangement to mind their kids.

I am also agog at the suggenstions you ban pudding from the kid on her birthday for a petulant act such as this. Way to give your kids an eating disorder/weird approach to food. :O

[PaulAnkaTheDog]

Jeezo a lot of people here seem to think that a behaviour that a child should grow out of by about the age of four or five is normal for a nine year old. Very worrying. I don't think cancelling the trip is the right course of action but I don't know what is to be honest.

[Dancergirl]

What's 'normal' paul? It's not great at 9 but some kids struggle with dealing with impulsive behaviour a bit longer than others. It doesn't mean they'll turn into terrible people, as long as the right message is being reinforced each time she will learn.