to think my DN was cruel and to punish her?

[mendimoo]

I look after my niece and nephew everyday before and after school as their parents work long hours. Today is DNs 9th birthday. DN has just started in Reception and DN is year 4. My nephew has been great with not asking to help open presents (my niece always nags him to let her help him) and really kind in making her a card off his own back, asking to bake her a cake and picking her a gift from his own piggy bank.

My niece had a few gifts at my house this morning (from me and grandparents) that her parents had said it was okay for her to open before school. One of the presents was wrapped in Frozen wrapping paper. My niece detests Frozen and actually sneered when she saw the paper. My nephew LOVES Frozen. He asked if he could please have the wrapping paper so he could use it to make a picture. She snatched it up and screwed it into a ball then dropped it into the dogs water bowl

My nephew sobbed and went into school crying for the first time since starting, saying he doesn't understand why his sister is so mean to him. I spoke to her and told her how unkind she was but she shrugged and was unrepentant. I was going to take her out for cake and bowling after school but I feel like cancelling now. DP thinks it was normal sibling behaviour but I think she was cruel and shouldn't be allowed to continue to be like that (she has form.) Her parents are unreachable unless it's an emergency and I have permission to punish as I see fit. WIBU to cancel tonight?

Hopefully she will mellow and he will toughen up a bit.

Great parenting there.
Hope for the best, sit back and relax. Don't teach your children sympathy or basic manners.

I think 'I praise him a lot' says loads.
Do you praise her much, op?

Agree with others here. Make her say sorry it wasn't nice or kind and try to encourage her to think about how she would feel in his shoes. Getting her to buy him some wrapping paper would be good recompense. But I do think its quite normal for children to be mean to their siblings now and again - though it shouldn't go uncorrected. But dont cancel the birthday - thats pretty harsh punishment and disproportionate - grown ups need to play nice and birthdays are very very important to children.

I've always worked and always managed to take the day off for birthdays so I think thats pretty sad her parents don't. And I dont agree with treating her and her brother differently - excluding him from family trips doesnt seem right to me at all. They could be creating some of the unkindness if one child feels they are better or more deserving than the other. And its really horrid if one child doesn't feel as loved as others - children are so aware of this and siblings are often looking for it (you love him more than me etc...).

I've done very well lweji

Four kind polite thoughtful kids. Probably because I didn't judge them every time they were mean to each other. Or make it clear I only liked them if they were perfectly behaved.

Sadly she sounds horribly spoilt, l applaud your efforts to take a stand and think you should punish her ....or she is going to become worse.

Poor DN having such a nasty sister,
oh and l don't believe this is normal sibling behavior.....and accepting things like this and not sharply correcting it encourages bullying, empathy has to be taught consistently and firmly from a young age and unkindness dealt with sharply everytime.

Well done you sound like a fab Aunt

They both sound spoilt and massively over indulged IMO

Probably because I didn't judge them every time they were mean to each other. Or make it clear I only liked them if they were perfectly behaved.

Which the OP didn't, but made it clear that such nasty behaviour was unacceptable, particularly towards a younger/weaker child.

They both sound spoilt and massively over indulged IMO

Not judgemental at all.

Think you handled it fine.

Bit bemused by comments such as
"for a 5yo to get so upset over something that wasn't his to ask for is really a bit silly."

It's the act that is upsetting, not the loss of the paper. It was a spiteful thing to do.

She is 9.. There are probably birthday party invitations going around on a weekly basis with her peers and birthday pressies in the mornings with their families. She doesn't have that because of her parent's demanding work schedule and perhaps lack of forethought. Perhaps, she feels out of kilter but doesn't know why. Plus you do not really know what goes on behind doors and their family dynamics. I agree that it is right to encourage empathy at all times! But, a birthday should never be cancelled, you are her shining light on her special day. She does need to make amends to her brother within a day or two of her special day in whatever way you deem appropriate. Good luck. I hope the situation improves.

blinks

It is her 9th birthday, but you have had her before and after school, and she is still with you at bedtime?

"What you don't do is take one child away, without their sibling, and then decide NOT to take the younger one away without their older sibling! for fear of upsetting the older one. Does that make it clear enough?"

^"It is not clear enough. Where are they going? What are they doing?
Maybe somewhere where a particular 4yo would be too much hassle? E.g. too whiny/fussy/misbehaving to enjoy something particular. I don't know, just guessing."^

I will try again, Nataleejah.

I am not saying it is wrong to take one child away on their own, if the activity is unsuitable - or if you want some time with just that one child.

But it IS wrong if you don't subsequently take the other child away for an equivalent treat, on their own, leaving the sibling behind - because you don't want to deal with the first child tantrumming about the second child getting a treat.

You have to treat both children fairly. That doesn't mean they have to have the same treat, but it does mean that one child shouldn't get better treatment than the other because they kick up a fuss, and the parents don't have the balls to face that.

If one child gets a treat, the other one should get a treat too - ie. if one child gets taken to see a film that is unsuitable for the younger sibling, then the younger sibling gets a cinema trip to a film they want to see, at a later date.

It means that both children should get to have trips away with their parents and without their sibling - maybe different types of trip to suit their ages.

In the OP, the niece gets to go away with her parents, but her brother does NOT get to go away alone with them, because of the fuss his sister makes. That is not fair.

I really hope this makes things clearer.

I think you handled it well.

Personally having read through the thread I think Nina was actually what spot a complete over reaction and to make out an 9 year old was some villain . Gosh my brother had a 5 year age gap and he was terrible with me, but we are adults and get on fine we were typical siblings. I have two DC with similar age gap to ops DNie DNep and they can be nasty to each other but extremely loving the next. You even said 70% of the time she is loving to him they are typical children. It sounds like they are likely missing their parents and in need of abit more stability.

Her brother needs to know he's important too. She should def buy him Frozen paper but also needs to know he looks up to her. She needs to stop seeing him as a new rival and look out for him. How amazing to have a little person look up to you!
Does she look up to you?

It doesn't sound like your nephew is treated very fairly tbh, even by his own parents!! I wouldn't cancel the treat but agree with PP that you should take her to a shop and but some Frozen craft stuff and make it VERY clear to her that she is buying these things with her own money because of her unacceptable behaviour. And it is unacceptable. Yes she's a child but at 9 she is plenty old enough to know what she is doing, and from your description it sounds like she acted deliberately in order to try and hurt her brother's feelings, which is not okay. You need to get her parents to talk to her and make sure she knows that acting in such a mean and spiteful way to her brother (or to anyone!) is not acceptable and she should not be doing it.

I used to know a girl very similar to the niece. At 9 she was still having foot-stamping tantrums. Her mother would appease her. She had treats all the time and days out left right and centre.

Her younger brother was always put into childcare and never included in the treats.

At 21, I hear the girl is still the same. I feel very sorry for her brother.

OP, you've handled this really well.

Buy a copy of Aesop's fables to have at hand and if she does a similar thing again, make her read the Dog in the Manger story aloud and tell you what she thinks of the dog's actions and how the other animals would have felt.

About a month ago you posted that you were concernned because your DN's father, who has a history of abuse, had just started co-sleeping with her with her when she visits and that she's exhausted when she returns from his house. At the very least it suggests that she may be tired and her time divided between adults who don't get on. Her brother needs support too, and needs to see adults making sure he's treated fairly. But there may be something else behind it than sibling rivalry.

I'm getting confused with all the nephews and nieces not to mention the DNs.
Are DNiece's parents separated or together? Different sets?

I'm confused now too Lweji.
I thought the neice and nephew's parents were both doctors? That's why OP has them so often.
Was there any mention of a split family?
I'm lost now

I care for my neices and nephews too and I think at some point when you become the main carer you HAVE to treat them how you'd treat your own. I personally would make her apologise, cancel the birthday treat, and take away something she loves for a set period of time. Spitefulness isn't becoming behaviour for a 9 year old in any situation and needs to be nipped in the bud.

The split family was mentioned in a very alarming post by the OP last month, where she was worried about her niece's father possibly behaving inappropriately. I'm guessing the niece and nephew's mother has remarried. Sounds like there is a lot of stress in the family and I wondered if that is why the niece is acting as she is.

I want to buy the kid some frozen wrapping paper and send it to him. I have no idea how you should handle it, I only have one child, but if I saw him being this spiteful to another child, I would certainly be trying to get across how he'd made the other child feel and let him know that what he did made me unhappy as well as the other child, because he had done it. I hope this helps.

Powershower now fancy you mentioning Aesopps Fables....