to think my DN was cruel and to punish her?

[mendimoo]

I look after my niece and nephew everyday before and after school as their parents work long hours. Today is DNs 9th birthday. DN has just started in Reception and DN is year 4. My nephew has been great with not asking to help open presents (my niece always nags him to let her help him) and really kind in making her a card off his own back, asking to bake her a cake and picking her a gift from his own piggy bank.

My niece had a few gifts at my house this morning (from me and grandparents) that her parents had said it was okay for her to open before school. One of the presents was wrapped in Frozen wrapping paper. My niece detests Frozen and actually sneered when she saw the paper. My nephew LOVES Frozen. He asked if he could please have the wrapping paper so he could use it to make a picture. She snatched it up and screwed it into a ball then dropped it into the dogs water bowl

My nephew sobbed and went into school crying for the first time since starting, saying he doesn't understand why his sister is so mean to him. I spoke to her and told her how unkind she was but she shrugged and was unrepentant. I was going to take her out for cake and bowling after school but I feel like cancelling now. DP thinks it was normal sibling behaviour but I think she was cruel and shouldn't be allowed to continue to be like that (she has form.) Her parents are unreachable unless it's an emergency and I have permission to punish as I see fit. WIBU to cancel tonight?

[MaddyHatter]

tbh, while she's being rather harsh about it, i do agree with Nina in that it should have been dealt with this morning with a sharp telling off and pulling her up on her behaviour, then forgotten about.

At the end of the day, yes it was spiteful, but its only wrapping paper, and for a 5yo to get so upset over something that wasn't his to ask for is really a bit silly.

I get there is some other dynamic going on here with the parents treatment, but to spoil her birthday over some ripped paper is ridiculous.

[KoalaDownUnder]

its spiteful of her but it would be absolutely terrible for you to cancel her birthday over screwing up some paper.

Agree.

I think this is a really bloody ridiculous overreaction, tbh.

Siblings do petty, mean things to each other sometimes - they're kids, they lack impulse control. Nephew probably forgot about it 5 minutes later. I doubt his 'little heart is broken', or whatever hyperbole everyone is carrying on with.

I think punishing her hours later, on her birthday, is horrible.

[AGenie]

If it's any help, the younger one will have seen your reaction and realised that he is the more popular. If he has his wits about him he will slip into the nice-as-pie role while his sister is quietly despised by adults around him. In the long run, it's in her interests to be punished so she doesn't end up stuck in the vindictive sister role.

[CancellyMcChequeface]

Destroying the paper was unkind and she should have been told off for it, but I agree with the poster who said that to a 9-year-old it might be confusing/upsetting to be given a gift with Frozen paper if 'everyone knows' that she hates Frozen. To an adult it's not a big deal and any complaint about it makes the child look ungrateful for the gift, but young children don't have that same perspective. I reacted similarly to being given lots of all-pink birthday cards when I was around that age. I loathed pink, and was very confused that if someone wanted to do something nice (buy me a card) they'd choose one that they knew I'd dislike. That they didn't think about it/it was a card they already had in the house/whatever didn't occur to me, because I was a child.

So, ruining the paper was unkind and possibly spiteful, but I think losing the birthday treat would be a very disproportionate response. The 5-year-old won't remember the ripped paper when he's older, but something that negative happening on a birthday won't be forgotten (and not in an 'oh, I learned my lesson and was nicer to my brother afterwards' way).

[OliviaBensonOnAGoodDay]

It sounds like she was angry about being given something she hates and sees as babyish. When her brother was so happy with it, she felt jealous that he was getting enjoyment out of her present and she reacted in anger

Agreed.

Not an excuse for nastiness, but I don't think she's the reincarnation of the kid from The Omen, as some posters seem to think.

I despised my brother at this age. I think it's to do with hormones and quite primal instincts kicking in. Seen it with lots of looked after young people too in their sibling groups. although that's usually a bit more complex.

I agree with PP that she should buy him something Frozen related out of pocket money, but maybe the day after her birthday, not on the day. And make it a positive thing, not (just) a punishment - as she's choosing the paper or whatever, tell her how kind she's being, how thoughtful and good at choosing for her brother. How much he'll love it, because he's younger and smaller, and how he'll be so happy to see her with it. Try and make her realise how much better it is to be nice.

Prepared to be told I'm too soft though.

[bookwormnerd]

I think you need to very careful, yes it was nasty but kids can be especially to siblings. Your nephew has probably forgotten and if you make a big deal your niece will just remember that her aunt ruined her ninth birthday so make her more jealous of her brother. Looking at it she may be upset that the person who used frozen paper didn't seem to know her (despite probably left over) her parents wernt with her (and at 9 she wont be able to fully understand I they have to) and she is probably jelous of younger brother. If you cancel treat you could deepen the wedge. Maybe just say calmly to niece before go out to be kind to her brother maybe she can get him son frozen stickers and say sorry then you can go out and it been done with. You cant force a person to be sorry. Parents sound rubbish with taking one child over another but you need to not feed in to resentment. You make a big deal you could make relationship between you unrepairable , kids can be horrible I know having grown up with siblings that's true but this is not the day to make a huge stand

[kurlique]

Wow such a variation in the responses to this! I am firmly in the camp of that her behaviour is mean and unacceptable and consequences of poor behaviour are required (but not cancelling her birthday treat as that would escalate things) but I am more concerned that her parents don't stand up to her behaviour and her brother missing out as a consequence - I really don't understand how people can do this to their kids, it's not fair on either child. A friend of mine had a similar older sibling, they have very little to do with each other as adults and no wonder, the older sibling's jealous behaviour was so indulged by the parents he was even given presents on the younger one's birthday because he would kick off seeing his sibling getting presents without him getting something too... But then they didn't give the younger one present on the older one's birthday because they didn't kick off and make a fuss!!! Equity is so important, it doesn't need to be instantaneous (I took DS on a trip to London one summer on his own and a couple of years later I took DD, who is younger, on a similar trip - that's fair and when DS went it was made clear to DD that her turn would come when she was older) but it must be evident to both (all) children that their parents are even-handed and that poor behaviour wins you nothing. Someone needs to stand up to that young girl before she turns into a selfish and unpleasant woman... over dramatic... Me?

[Lunar1]

I do not tolerate spiteful behaviour. The evening would be reduced to either bowling or the meal, probably the meal then going to get some paper for your nephew.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

To the posters who have said the OP should leave this for her parents to deal with - did you miss the bit where the OP says her nephew doesn't get to go out on his own with his parents for treats (in the way her niece is doing, for her birthday), because her niece makes such a fuss about her brother getting such a treat, and the parents give in to this behaviour?

In the light of this appeasing of tantrums from the niece, do you honestly think they will provide an effective consequence for her behaviour towards her brother?

[WiddlinDiddlin]

Mmm..

She's 9 - I would expect a 9 year old to get over having wrapping paper that wasn't their favourite.

A 3 year old, yes, floods of tears, wrong wrapping paper = end of world. Not a 9 year old.

To then be nasty and spiteful to her little brother ... is nasty and spiteful and again she's old enough to know thats not acceptable.

Cancelling a birthday treat is a big deal though so I think going out to get wee brother something nice BEFORE heading out for birthday treat would be the best way forward - leaving any punishment til the weekend is too long and likely wouldn't even happen if shes not with the OP at that point anyway.

[Branleuse]

I also think you cant judge a small child by how they occasionally treat their siblings. Mine speak to each other in ways that theyd never get away with speaking to their schoolfriends. When you live with people they get the brunt of everything. It shouldnt be ignored, but you cant catastrophise it either, and maybe she is already upset with having to be away from her parents on her birthday morning

[Branleuse]

and it WAS her wrapping paper. She wasnt obliged to give it to him

[JudyCoolibar]

You have not said anything positive about her in your posts it's all about your little favourite.

Nina, it's generally a good idea to check before posting things like that. Quote from the OP at 13.53: "My niece is wonderful".

[JudyCoolibar]

Would be so annoyed if I gave birthday money and she spent it on that.

Audrey, do you normally expect to be able to control what a child spends their birthday money on?

Siblings do petty, mean things to each other sometimes - they're kids, they lack impulse control.

Not at age 9, normally.

[Memoires]

I agree, get the nephew wrapping paper first, then do birthday treat. I do think you need to speak to the parents about the unequal treatment. The children both know it happens and it's unfair. The girl is using her favoured status against the boy, and he is becoming passive.

[Obsidian77]

Yes it was cruel but she's a kid. Instead of punishing her, could you have a quiet word with her saying you were horrible to your brother and upset him a lot, what can you do to make him feel better about it? If you punish her by cancelling a birthday treat I doubt you'll see any improvement in her behaviour and she'll just resent him more.
Steer her towards treating him better. If she's always this angry and unhappy she might need help learning ways to calm herself.

[Spingroll16]

Am I like the only one who thinks she is old enough to know better, and to cancel her birthday trip out.

She was spiteful and unkind, birthday or not, you cant allow that behaviour.

[treggle]

You sound very much keener on your nephew than your niece!

[treggle]

Cancel her birthday?! Oh fgs.

Yes it was mean and tell her off. But don't make d nephew into a sad victim

[Nataleejah]

Don't cancel birthday, but a good telling off should do. What a little cow.

[PurpleDaisies]

Don't cancel birthday, but a good telling off should do. What a little cow.

Little cow? That's pretty unnecessary. All kids are horrible at times.

The op has already told her off and she wasn't repentant. She needs to understand that behaviour like this requires an apology or making it up to the person (in this case using pocket money to buy wrapping paper seems a good idea).

[KoalaDownUnder]

'Siblings do petty, mean things to each other sometimes - they're kids, they lack impulse control.'

Not at age 9, normally.

Oh, of course they do. There are threads on here all the time about teenagers having a strop and doing/saying something nasty. Let alone 9-year-olds.

[Lweji]

Of course children do nasty things and lack some control.

That's why they need parents around. To teach them appropriate behaviour.

[Dancergirl]

So I think it's important that we DON'T demonise them, but punish proportionately, explain, repeat, and repeat and repeat. It will sink in at some level and at some point

^^This x1000

We sometimes forget that they are children who are learning how to behave and may make mistakes many many times until they get it right. Yes it was a spiteful act and there are various different options how to deal with the undesired behaviour depending on your style of parenting. However it is dealt with, the important point is that the little girl gets the message clear and loud that it was a nasty thing to do. It doesn't mean she won't make a mistake again, she probably will but children learn things at different rates.

[Dancergirl]

Not at age 9, normally

Rubbish, all children develop at different rates and learning impulse control is part of that.