to think my DN was cruel and to punish her?

[mendimoo]

I look after my niece and nephew everyday before and after school as their parents work long hours. Today is DNs 9th birthday. DN has just started in Reception and DN is year 4. My nephew has been great with not asking to help open presents (my niece always nags him to let her help him) and really kind in making her a card off his own back, asking to bake her a cake and picking her a gift from his own piggy bank.

My niece had a few gifts at my house this morning (from me and grandparents) that her parents had said it was okay for her to open before school. One of the presents was wrapped in Frozen wrapping paper. My niece detests Frozen and actually sneered when she saw the paper. My nephew LOVES Frozen. He asked if he could please have the wrapping paper so he could use it to make a picture. She snatched it up and screwed it into a ball then dropped it into the dogs water bowl

My nephew sobbed and went into school crying for the first time since starting, saying he doesn't understand why his sister is so mean to him. I spoke to her and told her how unkind she was but she shrugged and was unrepentant. I was going to take her out for cake and bowling after school but I feel like cancelling now. DP thinks it was normal sibling behaviour but I think she was cruel and shouldn't be allowed to continue to be like that (she has form.) Her parents are unreachable unless it's an emergency and I have permission to punish as I see fit. WIBU to cancel tonight?

[mendimoo]

I didn't post to discuss her attributes Nina and don't need to defend myself to you. If you have nothing constructive to say then please refrain from repeating yourself.

[tootsietoo]

My DDs are 8 and 10 (just turned 10 last week) and if it reassures you at all DD1 does this sort of thing to DD2 quite often. It upsets me so much, and I really don't like her much a lot of the time because of it. BUT objectively I know that, as a PP said, it is all to do with sibling jealousy and hormones and all sorts of funny ideas whizzing round her growing brain. So I think it's important that we DON'T demonise them, but punish proportionately, explain, repeat, and repeat and repeat. It will sink in at some level and at some point.

I think I probably agree that cancelling the bowling and meal is disproportionate, but that for her to buy some Frozen paper or some other Frozen item for her brother out of birthday money + apology as sincere as she can possibly make it would be proportionate.

Also I think one on one parent time is a really good thing for children that are suffering from sibling jealousy. Obviously we make sure we do it equally for both, but I think DD1 needs it more.

BTW my DD1 would also be incandescent at being given anything Frozen!

[Barksdale]

It sounds like she was angry about being given something she hates and sees as babyish. When her brother was so happy with it, she felt jealous that he was getting enjoyment out of her present and she reacted in anger.

I don't think it was "spitefulness" as such but a loss of temper.

She should have been told off at the time and then everyone could move on. Birthdays can be a source of sibling tension. Cancelling her birthday treat is way out of proportion.

[MrsJayy]

Eek thread has moved on a little bit your issues are further than her being mean your nephew isnt the favoured child is he so it would be pointless telling her parents they probably wouldn't be that concerned however your Dn being the favourite indulged child doesnt mean you need to bring her down a peg or 2 and cancel her birthday night out imo. How would you word it to her that she doesn't come down on a little 4yr old like a tonne of bricks because she might and that isn't fair on him

[marcopront]

I feel sorry for both of them.

If the presents came from you and your parents, presumably you all know her and know she hates frozen. Why is someone close to her using paper from something she hates?

From her point of view :
Mummy and Daddy don't want to be with me on my birthday.
Granny and Grandad have used paper from that horrible frozen
And now my brother wants the paper.

[PurpleDaisies]

It's not up to you to dole out punishments - especially on her birthday. Tell her parents if you think she needs to be punished

So when the niece acts out, the op should make a list and saved if for parents to deal with?

[hoddtastic]

are you (perhaps) over levelling the playing field a bit here?

[2kids2dogsnosense]

Sounds like you don't actually like your dniece very much?

I think that is is a major inference - I certainly didn't get that impression.

However, I think destroying the wrapping paper was an unbelievably spiteful thing to do. I really would't tolerate such wanton nastiness.

However, any punishment that comes about because of this may make her resent her poor little brother even more. I would let her know that what she did was AWFUL and that if anybody else heard about it they would be shocked and would think that she was a horrible person.

Point out that YOU don't think she's horrible, but that what she did WAS.

Her brother isn't much more than a baby and e loves her to bits - it's breaking his little heart. Yes - but him some wrapping paper - not so sure about using dessert (present) money to do it. Just make sure that for every nasty thing she does, you will do a nice one for him.

Poor little bugger! (Don't use those words )

[MeAndMy3LovelyBoys]

She sounds very spiteful and nasty.
I feel sorry for your little nephew

I don't feel sorry for your niece one bit.

[2kids2dogsnosense]

too many typos to correct - use your common sense.

[Audreyhelp]

I think this is a fuss about nothing to be honest . Actually feel sorry that her parents aren't doing anything for her birthday. Yes it was mean and nasty but tell off and just move on from it.
She didn't break his toy . He has probably forgotten about it and so should you.
Let it go... Just let it go........

[Lweji]

marcopront does have a point.

While I'm quite tough on behaviours, I also think it's important to discuss the issues and the reasons for punishments or why those behaviours are not appropriate. And try to listen and understand the reasons for those behaviours as well.

But, ultimately, the behaviours should not be acceptable.

[MrsJayy]

I cant do the quoting on my phone but Macropront broke it down really well she is 9yrs old her behaviour is not acceptable but understandble.

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

It should have been dealt with on the spot and finished there and then rather than looking to drag it out all day by discussing punishments with a load of Internet strangers.

She has probably been having a good day at school, enjoying her birthday and then you will be there at home time waiting to dish out her just desserts for something that was probably long forgotten about - by both of them.

Thats spiteful - maybe she's learnt that trait from you op?

You are not her parent op no matter how much you baby sit and you clearly have an issue with their parenting - do take it out on them instead of there nine year old dd.

Hope she has a nice day - in spite of you op !

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

Don't worry meandmythreeloveyboys this child is not your ex step daughter - no need to project !!

[MrsWorryWart]

If the OP is such a regular and important person in her Niece & Nephew's life, then I'm presuming she knows how the children are to be treated. And whilst they're in her care then why shouldn't she punish. They'd certainly be punished for all kinds in nursery/school.

I don't think it's the biggest issue, but due to the backstory and information that has come out since, then I think it's more than fair for DN to buy DNephew a roll/sheet of Frozen wrap, so she can see it's not acceptable to treat others like that.

On this occasion, it's her Brother that has been upset, but this may happen regularly with other children.

I think it's so sad that the Parents weren't able to get some time off, however, lots of Parents have to work very hard and long hours, to provide a certain standard of living to their DC. Would I do it? No! However these Parents do.

[Branleuse]

its spiteful of her but it would be absolutely terrible for you to cancel her birthday over screwing up some paper. Siblings ARE often horrible to each other, and if it wasnt her birthday, then it would be more OK to cancel, but as it is, i think you need to let it go


Also using DN and DN when theyre two seperate people is really confusing

[Audreyhelp]

dont you think it's spoiling the nephew to go and buy him a whole roll?
Would be so annoyed if I gave birthday money and she spent it on that.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Re not being able to get the time off - well, it isn't always possible to do that, is it? If the children's parents work as teachers or in a university, time off in term-time, especially this early in the term, will simply not be possible. Plenty of other jobs where it wouldn't be easy to take a day off because it's a child's birthday.

As for the OP's dilemma, I agree, don't cancel the bowling, but do try to make it up to the little boy in some appropriate way. Spitefulness is a hard thing to deal with. Unfortunately, not everybody grows out of it, as we see on MN every single day. About half* of all threads on AIBU arise out of some sort of spiteful behaviour.

*This statistic was produced by the well known 'Pull a random number out of the air' approach, as favoured by many politicians.

[PurpleDaisies]

audrey how do you propose the op buys a scrap of wrapping paper without buying a whole roll?

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

FFS! It was used wrapping paper get a grip! Kids do this shit all the time

Spectacularly missing the point.

Nina do you have a child who is frequently accused of being spiteful, spoilt, or a bully by any chance?

Children who do this sort of thing for kicks need to have it stamped out and nipped in the bud at the earliest opportunity and before they are allowed to grow into insufferable monsters whom nobody likes. Sometimes it takes someone who isn't their parent to see them for exactly who they are and to tell them straight that it's not on.

[ThoraGruntwhistle]

I'd go and buy him a Frozen colouring book or something to cheer him up. I don't think I'd cancel her birthday treat but someone needs to have some serious words with her about acceptable treatment of others.

[VeryBitchyRestingFace]

You are not her parent op no matter how much you baby sit and you clearly have an issue with their parenting - do take it out on them instead of there nine year old dd.

OP said in her post that she has parental permission to punish as she sees fit. I should think so too, if she's babysitting 5 days a week.

Nina, you seem a bit invested in this.

[needanewjob]

Hola I work in a primary school with her specific year and at 9 she is definitely old enough to know that what she did was spiteful and hurtful! The fact that she saw her sibling in tears would tell her that she'd obviously crossed a line even if she was somehow unable to review her own behaviour....

I think I'd make a point of buying him his own frozen wrapping paper because of what had happened but I wouldn't cancel the treat (although perhaps now the shopping trip for the replacement paper should happen before the treat so that she realises what she did needs to be corrected)