£9000 per year plus living costs and it is policy for the university tutor not to talk to,parents...am I being too precious?

[MillyDLA]

Just wondered your thoughts. My ds has missed the credits needed to move to his next year at uni, failing one exam by 2%. He has only just been told today that he can't return to uni until Sept 2017. I would have liked to have discussed this and meet with the personal tutor to support my ds in making the right choices. I want him to stop and consider all of his future options. However, even with my ds present the uni have refused any contact. I know my ds is a grown up, but this is a big decision. Added to that are all of the financial implications, student loans, a flat signed for for the whole of next year and future career/change of degree options. Big decisions to make.

I am interested in your thoughts around the lack of contact by the uni.

Thanks

But it's not a staff underperformance meeting. If it was a plagiarism meeting then yes you are allowed to bring in someone else. Once a guy brought in his Dad, also a Uni Lecturer. Who listened to the case we presented (it was more a case of carelessness than actual plagiarism) and then gave him a right royal bollocking in front of us.
How you can misunderstand the pass criteria when re-sitting an exam is beyond me. Honestly.
It doesn't matter HOW he is funded because that is your problem. Let's see your son had invented an amazing device aged 16 and was a multi-millionaire and funding his own university degree, well then, it doesn't mean that we 'keep secrets' from his parents while informing you of your son's because you are paying for his. How his degree is paid for is again between the student and the person paying for his degree (whoever that may be). It doesn't give us the right to discuss his progress/issues with that person.

Oh dear me. I despaired last week at people still making medical appointments for adult children about to go to university... this is even more precious.

Can't give any advice but just wanted to give you these .

You must be feeling really shocked.

No in this case my ds has given permission for me to be involved, the uni have refused. As I keep saying, that is fine, he has learnt a valuable lesson, he does need to reassess. He has found a full time job to pay for his flat. He needs to decide whether to take his exam next May and return to his degree in Sep 17 or to pay for the two extra modules starting now and return to his degree in Sep 17, therefore not needing to retake this exam.

Actually the bigger decisions will be does he return at all? He will also need support to work that out.

Suggestions: maybe he should be in a house share and not in a flat as that would save a lot of money. Also it might be better at his age. I know you have paid the flat rental but he can move out in 6 months' time.

I think he has to learn to budget for himself. He is very lucky he has a parent paying for him.

18 is legally an adult, but not in reality.

milly - it's relevant because you're complaining, but without thinking why the professional rules that apply to you, might also constrain your child's teachers - and in different ways.

stealth - depends whether the child has actually given permission. For us, if a parent rings and says 'my son is fine with this,' no, we're not allowed to assume it's so. If there's a level of doubt, we'd be very cautious, because at the end of the day, the parent doesn't need to talk to us, and the adult does have a legal right to that protection.

Unis DO do "after care", it is in their best interests for students to do well. Even if there's every indication that a student might fail, tutors will do everything they can right up until the exam to help them pass if the students are willing to seek that help… and they do usually get those who seek help through!

Sounds like your DS was "winging it" rather than taking the advise and help available, especially if he didn't understand the consequences of failing this module! That help IS there but they're not gonna go knock on his houseshare door and drag him to it if he doesn't seek it.

that right there is what aftercare means in a uni environment

Thank you Little, I did ask for advice! Just wish people on here weren't so judgemental! They really don't know me. If it sheds light on me and how I deal with my children one of my sons came out of primary with a face black and blue, quickly followed by his HT who said "never mind, boys will be boys, he was punched in the face" what did I say " yes, boys will be boys" and walked away! Not a helicopter parent, not precious, merely asking your thoughts. Interesting debate though. I won't take any if it personally!

Aren't the posters here talking about data protection being a bit precious? Most circumstances allow for someone to be present if the person asks and gives permission. This applies to GPs, medical appts, and so forth.

Not precious at all! We are simply not allowed to discuss a student's information with parents. Yes normally students can request a formal meeting plus a representative (and at my university a student could ask parents to be present at that), but it would need to be a formal, documented meeting because we are not allowed under data protection to reveal information to anyone but the student. We would need to be very certain that everything to be discussed would be fine to be spoken about in front of the parents, or a student could claim we had divulged confidential/personal information without permission.

It's also about what is considered professional and appropriate. I'm a university lecturer with pastoral responsibilities, and I can happily have an informal or formal discussion with a student on their own about resits and what our procedures are. But it would be above my pay grade, as it were, to have a formal meeting about exam results with a student plus parents or representatives. That would be the responsibility of the HoD, plus our main administrator plus probably also someone from HR or the Board of Examinations if the parents were present!

If I was caught in the position of speaking to parents or potentially infringing data protection I would be absolutely bollocked by my manager and the HoD, and it would be considered an appallingly unprofessional thing for me to do, possibly even a disciplinary matter - so I wouldn't even consider it. The students are the legal adults and it doesn't matter who is paying the fees, our contract is with the student. Students can and have sued my university in the past for breaches of data protection amongst other things, so the uni is now very hot on appropriate protocols.

ssd "I think they should discuss it with you, not because he's being a baby or you're being a helicopter ( shite labels), but because its putting him into an awful lot of debt and you as his mum are wondering if he realises the implication of this."

but on that basis, if OP's son was working and got offered credit cards, it's the same thing. I was amazed how much credit I could get in my first job.

I'm just saying this because you can't police an adult in that way - there are tons of ways we can all get into trouble.

also, I think with the uni decision described here it's very much about personal choice and personal finance which the son can just talk to his mum about - there's no need for uni to talk to mum. If the OP asked uni "am I throwing good money after bad" they can't answer the question anyway, they don't have a crystal ball.

ds has given permission for me to be involved, the uni have refused

It sounds like there is nothing more to discuss. The options have been outlined, your son needs to make some decisions.

I think a lot of university staff would be happy to meet with parents if the student was present and they had the student's consent. It may be that this tutor has an incomplete understanding of the data protection rules and has just assumed that he can't talk to parents. Or it may be that it really is policy. Anyway, you just need to accept that, I think.

Added to that are all of the financial implications, student loans, a flat signed for for the whole of next year and future career/change of degree options. Big decisions to make.

With regard to these issues, I would strongly encourage you/your son to seek advice from your university's advice service - probably located within the Students Union but could be Student Services or similar. Ideally talk to someone who can advise on both housing and student finance issues. They can only talk in general terms to you, but with your som's consent, they would probably be happy to meet with both of you.

I'm wondering how you intended to go about this OP?

If your son went to his tutors to set up a meeting and he asked if it was ok for a parent to accompany him, that's one thing. If you rang the uni and demanded a meeting, that's different.

The data protection stuff being bandied about here is getting silly. I've been down the road (albeit a different one) negotiating medical info on my elderly parent and they can give permission for me to be party to that. If I went to their drs demanding info I'd not get it due to DP. Most unis whether it's counselling depts, or other pastoral support will talk to parents or another adult if the student says it's okay.

But I go back to what I said before which is your son's dilemma is a family one which ought to be discussed as a family after which he can communicate with uni over his decision. Your talking to them- other than perhaps whether they think he has the ability to pursue the degree - is not going to solve anything.

If it is the Uni refusing to talk to you I suspect because it's far too late at this stage - I do think your DS would have been aware what would happen if he didn't pass (they don't make 'em resit for fun!) but perhaps he thought he could get round it somehow.

I do agree with the Uni's stance though, the cost of the course and who it is met by doesn't give the parents any additional rights. I appreciate that it's a shock to you all, I know at least two people who didn't get to do their second year because the Uni refused to have them back and despite knowing full well that they hadn't made the required effort it hit them both pretty hard at the time.

The parents of one met with the Dean (this was well before tuition fees) who robustly refused to allow their child back on the course.

It's entirely possible he has only just been told he failed a resit, our resit boards are in August but some will be in September. It's also possible to 'carry' a failed module into the next year, if you haven't failed more than a certain number of other credits (depends on the institution) but if the module can't be carried, usually the only way to retrieve a failed module is to register part-time and take it the following year and come back full time when you're done. Students won't normally get funding for that p/t year so will have to fund themselves, normally they just work because they have few classes, or

I'm a Personal Tutor and I wouldn't expect to meet a parent about an academic issue, it undermines our relatonship with students and as others have pointed out, our contract and duty of confidentiality lie with the student. There's nothing stopping you discussing it thoroughly with your son before or after he has a session with his tutor and maybe the financial advisor in student services. It has to be his decision though.

It really wouldn't make any difference if you actually went to see the tutor even with your son's permission, you probably think it would give you a clearer idea of the options but the options will already be clearly set out in the communications your son has with the university, we have to be very clear in these circumstances. You wouldn't be able to negotiate with anybody to change the situation.

because we are not allowed under data protection to reveal information to anyone but the student.

Actually, the data protection rules don't stop you sharing information with third parties as long as you get the relevant consent in place. It is perfectly possible to do this. However, I imagine that some universities just put a blanket ban on talking to third parties because it's easier to enforce.

It really wouldn't make any difference if you actually went to see the tutor even with your son's permission, you probably think it would give you a clearer idea of the options but the options will already be clearly set out in the communications your son has with the university, we have to be very clear in these circumstances. You wouldn't be able to negotiate with anybody to change the situation.

yes I've been wondering what the OP thinks would be achieved if the uni did speak with her, the options have been given, he has the information, he just has to decide what to do. It's past the point where he could have salvaged the module enough to continue into the next year full time.. so what does the OP expect to happen at this meeting I wonder???

Other than repeating the information already given what else can they do? they can't make the decision for him

broken, the OP is the only person telling us that this consent is in place. It does have to come from the horse's mouth. You cannot just assume that a third party is a reliable source of that information.

I think most unis would speak to parents with the formal, expressed permission of the student. The fact that you are not being allowed into any meetings would suggest either:

• There is no discussion to be had

Or

• The student doesn't actually want their parents to hear what the staff have to say, so simply say that the uni isn't allowing it.

Actually, the data protection rules don't stop you sharing information with third parties as long as you get the relevant consent in place. It is perfectly possible to do this. However, I imagine that some universities just put a blanket ban on talking to third parties because it's easier to enforce.

I imagine also there'll be students who when face to face with a disgruntled parent ranting about after care and £9K will say they consent to their parent calling, but actually aren't really chosing it.. there's a difference between saying "yeah okay fine go ahead, call them if you want really want to" and saying "mum, would you mind calling uni and speaking to them, I'm a bit confused by it all". A blanket ban mitigates against the former.

I was wondering what the purpose of the meeting would be OP?

It sounds as though your DS has already met with the Uni and that the options available to him after failing his resit have been clearly explained. Can you not talk through these options at home with DS? What is it that the Uni would add?

Even if the OP is funding her ds's education £9k pa is still a steal in the context of school fees. I think ds's fees were about £17k when he did GCSEs. If he'd not done well, he'd have been invited to go elsewhere for 6th form and nothing his parents could have said would have made an iota of difference.

If the student consents the univesrity can talk to the parents. It's really really simple under the Data Protection Act 1998. So the universities cannot hide behind DPA once they have that parental consent which here they do have. It doesn't seem much notice today that he cannot go back in a few weeks' time. Were the rules clearly explained to him about the % needed or did the university fail in that and as a result there is the extra rent etc to pay for which the university may in law be liable if it were not clear about the consequences of dropping the X%?

Had a couple of ideas which may or may not help.

Would it be worth him investigating whether any other universities have a left over clearing place for his subject? Probably too late now, but if he is shocked enough to turn things around it might be better to start fresh somewhere else (especially if he is in year one).

With regard to the accommodation you could try to get another student to take it over.

I think that universities offer counselling and careers advice for students in this situation. They might be able to help.