£9000 per year plus living costs and it is policy for the university tutor not to talk to,parents...am I being too precious?

[MillyDLA]

Just wondered your thoughts. My ds has missed the credits needed to move to his next year at uni, failing one exam by 2%. He has only just been told today that he can't return to uni until Sept 2017. I would have liked to have discussed this and meet with the personal tutor to support my ds in making the right choices. I want him to stop and consider all of his future options. However, even with my ds present the uni have refused any contact. I know my ds is a grown up, but this is a big decision. Added to that are all of the financial implications, student loans, a flat signed for for the whole of next year and future career/change of degree options. Big decisions to make.

I am interested in your thoughts around the lack of contact by the uni.

Thanks

I think a lot of university staff would be happy to meet with parents if the student was present and they had the student's consent. It may be that this tutor has an incomplete understanding of the data protection rules and has just assumed that he can't talk to parents.

No, it is definitely policy! And would be considered appalling professional judgment on top. We have a contract with the student who is an adult: we can't just have informal chats with people about a student's personal information.

An individual lecturer would never meet with a student for a formal meeting with a representative in any case: it would be done at a higher level. However, from the department's POV, it sounds like, as ByGaslight says, that they think there is nothing to discuss and the procedures and policies have been made clear, so it's not a situation where a formal meeting with the university is relevant.

broken, the OP is the only person telling us that this consent is in place. It does have to come from the horse's mouth. You cannot just assume that a third party is a reliable source of that information.

I work with sensitive personal data all the time, and I'm well aware of the requirements for consent. I wasn't suggesting that the tutor should assume that the student consents just because the parents say so. I would expect them to require written consent from the student in advance.

All I was saying is that it's incorrect to say that you can't share with third parties under the data protection rules. You can. However, I understand why some organisations might choose to have a blanket no-sharing policy.

Can I just say that I think it is a big mistake to pay the tuition fees for your student children instead of getting them to take out a loan. I know a family whose son had a fantastic time in his first year, entirely funded by the Bank of Mum and Dad. Unfortunately his fun times didn't include much academic work. He failed his first year exams, failed the resits and then failed his second batch of resits the following summer. His parents were absolutely furious and told him that he had stolen £20000 from them.

If your child is unable to work at all or to earn a living wage, none of that loan will ever be repaid. If they do manage to earn a reasonable wage, it will get repaid gradually but will often not get paid in full. It's more of a graduate tax than a loan.

OP " I don't feel that we are buying a degree. I do however feel that the uni should be responsible for their students, that After Sales Care I mentioned. I hope that my ds is supported to make the right decisions for him. "

just a further thought. in terms of the after sales care, it looks as though the options were very clear - you paid for the flat knowing that he'd have to pass resit in order to use the flat.

there is now a new option on the table for the modules to be taken without a loan - that isn't about after sales care. After sales care to me is stuff like the fact that there was a problem with one of the exams set at my uni so several of us had to approach "after sales care" so to speak to sort out what was effectively a customer service problem.

But I get the impression what you are concerned about here is the "advice" the uni give him whereas really only he - and you as you are paying - can make the choice and there isn't anything the uni can possibly say to you that would help with that choice.

I'm a bit over invested in this because my uni was piss poor in some ways and I do wonder if things are better now - so I'm always interested in the customer service angle. I can see it but I see the student as the customer and any parental involvement seems wrong in a case like this. Perhaps with illness or something, but not a case like this.

I have no advice but for you both. It us not a nice situation to be in.

I suspect your DC does not want to meet his lecturer with you present and so is saying this is not possible. It is exactly what I would have done in his situation.

Sorry, I know it's hard to let go, but YABU. For your DS, taking a bit of responsibility on his own shoulders is what uni is all about.

Whatever age you are it is helpful to discuss with and get support from other people when you are in a difficult and confusing situation. On MN anything involving an18-25 year old seems to involve some posters advocating that they are left completely to their own devices because they are now adults. Sometimes it smacks of real nastiness. That is a general observation only loosely linked to this post.

op, are you paying your sons £9k a year fees?

I'm puzzled why your son has to miss a year rather than re-take the year he's failed. So if he's finished Year 1 and failed 2 modules, why has he to leave uni for a year? can't he re-take the first year?

train my post made clear all the points you have made in reply (to mine)!

You've replied simply to point out that such a discussion would be possible. You have confirmed that discussions could take place, with staff of a higher level. So it's not impossible, at all, it's just that you wouldn't do it yourself.

Be interesting to know how many posters here have 'adult' children at uni and have been through the experience of supporting their children ( and I don't mean financially.)

I've worked with young adults all my working life. Just because someone is 18 , 19 or 20 and legally an adult, it doesn't mean they are mature or don't need support from parents.

Whether the OP is paying tuition fees or not is irrelevant (though she seems to think it is) because the fact is that the student loan/ maintenance loan is means tested against parents' income. So we have the crazy situation where on the one hand an 18 yr old is expected to be an independent adult, yet part of the cost of uni is linked to family income. And yes, unis are businesses, and they tout for 'clients' like all businesses.

Hi MillyDLA. I failed my first year. I failed two exams in the summer and had resits. I was told about this time of year that I was to have a year out. I had failed one exam badly and one I got c39%. They would have let me through with the one near pass (major subject) but decided it would be unfair to let me proceed to second year when I might not make it.
They got me a degree-related work placement for the year. I paid off all my first year debts and saved enough to makeup all the expected shortfall for my second year and most of my third.
My placement made me realise I was on the wrong path. For some odd reason I posted to finish off the same degree instead of changing, but it helped me clarify my post-uni options.
Obviously if your son gets a job he can pay his own rent, and it will be a useful lesson.

Perhaps a resit paper might be prepared earlier? Why wait until needed?

Because it's an expensive process and a waste of money if nobody resits?

As for the accommodation issue: yes of course LLs should hold off until the middle of September before expecting anyone to confirm that they will be there in early October. And the drinking fountain should provide the milk of a male unicorn.

you are right pollyperky

my ds is 18, and going to uni, and whilst he is mature and able and clever in some ways, in others he's like a wee boy

Its a fine line between helping them and trying to give advice and stepping back and letting them make a mistake you think may harm their future

so many experts on mn though, like you I wonder how many of the posters here have 18 yr old sons?

teatowel "Whatever age you are it is helpful to discuss with and get support from other people when you are in a difficult and confusing situation"

absolutely agree - I don't think anyone is suggesting the son doesn't discuss it with his mum or anyone else he chooses to discuss it with. It's the necessity of the mum speaking to the uni that's under debate.

Oh, and I would have been mortified if my parents had been involved, but I was a girl, and it was all a lot more hands off back in the dark ages ;).

and a bit cheaper, pikachu.....

Well ssd - my son was 18 when he went to university, and it cost us 9less than it would now) and I was 19 and while yes, that was in the Golden Days of the Grant, it did not occur to me to ask my DM (widow when I started, subsequently remarried) for help or to her to offer it - and the idea of her contacting my tutor would have had us both ROFL, as we did not say in those days.

The tuition fees are the difference. And you don't have to pay them back until you start earning. I went to university many years ago, and only those from the poorest background got a full grant.

Oh indeed ssd.

You have confirmed that discussions could take place, with staff of a higher level. So it's not impossible, at all, it's just that you wouldn't do it yourself.

But why would the university set up a formal meeting with the HoD and university admin to meet a student plus parents because the student had failed a resit? It sounds like they have made their policies quite clear; what would they say? They don't give advice on what they think the student should do; the student needs to decide.

The people talking about consent are treating it like there wouldn't be any legal implications if the university were, for example, to disclose something in the discussion that the student later decided they did not like being disclosed (a previous fail not known to parents, academic problems, health problems etc.). This is quite probable; young people often don't realise what might happen in a formal meeting, or what might be discussed. Or they do, and despite what they tell the parents, they might not actually want them to be there....

OP, I completely understand why you'd want to find out what went wrong and what the options are.

I'm also wondering why your son misunderstood the progression criteria?
Did he just assume he could carry a failed module into the next year or read the programme regulations and interpreted them incorrectly or could he have been given incorrect information by a member of staff?

Staff are under huge pressure to publish research papers throughout the year and often spend the summer months involved in research activities so holding resits in September is fairly common especially in a research led Uni.

The processes/requirements will be laid down clearly in the university regulations. Students are given access to these and told about them but IME they rarely take any notice of them until after it's too late. The student union should also be able to provide advice and support but the choices are usually extremely limited. What has your son's tutor suggested after discussing it with him?
Although I wouldn't mind them bringing a suitable friend or a representative from the student union to discuss something like that, personally I would not be prepared to discuss the situation with a student's parent even with the student's permission unless there was a serious health issue that made it essential, in which case I would also clear this with my line manager. This is because the risk is that parents maybe over-invested and start intervening in a meeting in an unhelpful way or they may have put pressure on the student to 'give permission' for them to be there, but mainly because it is nearly always that the student just hasn't put sufficient work in and this needs to be clearly discussed in a sympathetic but open manner in order to get them to engage with the course in future and they are not likely to do this when a parent is there. Sometimes it may even be a product of issues at home that have led to this problem to start with, in which case a trip to student counselling services will be recommended together with some strategies for coping with and prioritising study. Often it is that the student has not had to learn to deal with things themselves and are now learning brutally that there are some things that mum and dad really can't fix. In these cases a metaphorical kick up the bottom plus a good dose of 'you can do it if you put the effort in' often does the trick.
Finally it is not uncommon for students to lie to their parents about what has been going on until they get caught out. Like all the warnings they have had about attendance, not handing work in etc. Not saying that's happened here you understand, but it's not uncommon. I hope your son is able to make a suitable decision and is successful in the future wherever that may be.

My MIL interfered with DHs Uni and degree. She was persistent and difficult.
He was told to reign his mother in and get her to stop calling. She didn't.

It affected him socially and academically, and he is still bitter about it and it has affected their relationship even now (he is 47)

Please let your ds deal with it, be there for support, but don't contact the uni directly
( I have one at Uni and one recently graduated - I know it's tough)

Fortitudine

Universities are becoming increasingly frustrated with parents who think that they can interfere in their children's academic lives. It was practically unheard until about ten years ago, but a couple of friends of mine who work in universities have said it is becoming a real problem.

Hmm, when did fees come in again? Think that might the reason behind the sudden hike. Higher price, higher standards/better service expected. That doesn't mean parents are right to interfere granted, but surely a bunch of academics could see that one coming?