I'm so sorry it's about disabled bus seats

[YourNewspaperIsShit]

But It's absolutely not the normal "having a dig" thread and if I wasn't torturing myself about the situation I promise I wouldn't post it.

So I don't drip feed: I'm autistic and have an invisible physical disability.

The bus to DD's nursery was just a small one on this occasion and there was one wheelchair/disabled seat. The front seats have 'elderly' signs on and there's a sign on the wheelchair seat saying something like "This seat is for wheelchair users. Small prams and buggies may use this seat but must move if a wheelchair user needs access". Totally acceptable, I have no dispute.

So basically what happened was I got on to pick DD up from nursery, normally we go in the car but only DP drives and he was called to work. I have 6 month old DS in his pram (Silver Cross Wayfarer if it's relevant coz I can't fold it). I was in a lot of pain that day or I would have used his sling, i physically couldn't do it. In fact I kind of lean on the pram like a zimmer frame IYSWIM.

Pay for my ticket, park pram in the space and sit in the disabled seat. Every other seat on the bus is taken. Elderly people in the front seats. Halfway through the journey we reach a bus station and a lady in a wheelchair is in the queue, bus driver tells me to get off. Normally I'd 100% do this but I wouldn't have made DD's pick up.... She is only 4 so can't exactly wait another 30mins for the next bus.

I start having a panic attack with the situation and kind of splutter out that I really need to catch the bus. The absolutely lovely lady in the wheelchair says she's only taking her shopping home and will wait for the next bus.

Bus driver, assuming I guess that I'm just a snotty young entitled mother demanding the seat, continues to tell me to get off the bus. I start to cry.

I manage to choke out that I'm also disabled and get told "aye of course you are love, what kind of person takes a seat from someone in a wheelchair". It then felt like he was pitting us off one another, like some awful 'disability contest' saying things like "go on then what have you got, is it worse?"

The lady eventually gets through to him that she really isn't in a rush and goes out of the station so he can't just sit and wait for her. He reluctantly drives off with a shitty attitude and a grunt

I don't know what I'd have done without her lovely calm demeanor. I'm still absolutely mortified that I didn't get off the bus though, if it wasn't for DD there's no way I'd have stayed on.

Totally prepared to hear I WBU, especially for starting a bus seat thread. But I can't stop thinking about it and have noone to discuss with IRL

In hindsight I would have caught an earlier bus but usually they have big ones with 3 disabled/pram seats so I didn't think.

Yet the moment we have a thread about wheelchair spaces on buses everyone's there saying well, let's just open it up to other people with disabilities
No, no-one has said that. I'm visually impaired, I don't need that space, even if I do have a pushchair with me.
People are suggesting that if a person's disability means they NEED a mobility aid like a wheelchair, scooter, walking frame or SN pushchair, then they should be treated the same way. Those people cannot travel without those aids. Why is a wheelchair different to a walking frame? Neither user can travel without them.

its a couple of years and the pushchair will be gone. Some people have issues with accessable spaces for ever
But could well be replaced with a walking frame. Her physical disability is not temporary.

The vast majority of the time, wheelchair users should get priority, but there are occasions when another disabled person has equal need of the space and would be completely unable to travel without using that space.
Like this lad www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teenage-dwarf-banned-bus-because-3921006

Exactly, mywine. Which is why a campaign for extra space for others who might need it would be a terrific idea, not opening up the WHEELCHAIR space to other needs.

I have seen buses with a wheelchair space and the priority seats flip. They would meet the OP's needs.

The wheelchair bay is for wheelchairs, not specifically 'just' disabled people. But I totally understand your issue and as the woman was happy to wait, luckily all turned out well in the end.

I had a similar issue when I was pregnant with DS. I receive PIP for chronic pain issues, and was also very visibly pregnant (I know this is not a disability) and was sat in the seats at the front which say 'elderly and disabled' round here. My pain had just came on at its worst stage so I was quite literally writhing around (as much as a bus allows) to try and relieve it, when an old lady got on and demanded I move as I was 'just pregnant' and she was elderly. It was horrible as I could feel the whole bus glaring at me while I was in so much pain I wanted to die. I did say I have pain issues aswell as being pregnant, and got a reply along the liens of 'well you chose to be pregnant'...so obviously she assumed my pain was BECAUSE of my pregnancy. Bus driver didn't seem to want to get involved and everyone was tutting at me, and if I hadn't been so ill I would have stood my ground as I do have as much right to be there as she did..but I burst into tears, hobbled my way off the bus and ended up paying for a taxi home. In fairness a taxi is probably the best thing for me when I am in that much pain, but the pain had only started like that once I was actually sat down...had just been bad but 'manageable' until then. That night was taken into A&E and was talking to the nurse who gave me the morphine I needed after getting scans and such done, and she couldn't believe it...

Yes this will likely be excused as 'she has had to deal with so many entitled people before' or something, but IMO SHE was the 'entitled' one demanding the seat of someone who was obviously in a lot of pain..and (while this doesn't always mean anything) seemed to be perfectly able to walk fine herself..

I have lots of empathy with the OP, well I had more before she threw a little strop. However, I also have empathy for the woman who has the wheelchair user. She was also put in an uncomfortable position. I'm not blaming anyone except wider society and accessibility is still very poor, particularly on transport. In an ideal world, the OP should have a folding pushchair and the other bus users should have helped her fold it and unfold it again when she gets off, so everyone can use the bus.

doggity a little strop? Don't blame her to be honest. It must be very frustrating to keep having posters saying 'you should just have a foldable buggy'

SHE CAN'T BECAUSE SHE NEEDS TO LEAN ON IT TO WALK

Sorry for shouting, but it has been said many, many times and there are all posters, like you, suggesting it.

That's the equivalent of saying 'the wheelchair user should have a lightweight folding wheelchair for public transport', or 'they shouldn't have a bulky walking frame, they should use crutches because they're easier to store on a bus', or 'a blind person shouldn't have a guide dog because they can use a white cane instead' !

If it met their needs, they would have one, don't you think they want to make their lives as easy as they can? The sturdy but bulky pushchair meets OP's needs, a folding one wouldn't.

Sorry, I don't understand, why can't you lean on a folding buggy?
And also as pointed out up thread, the silver cross she mentioned DOES fold up.
I'm confused

From experience, a folding buggy has a tendency to tip if you try and lean on it. Whereas my bulky travel system you could lean quite heavily on the back, you had to actively push your foot on the crossbar if you wanted to tip it for kerbs.

The silver cross does fold, if you take the carrycot off, but then you have the carrycot to deal with. And I believe it folds flat rather than umbrella, so takes up as much floor space, and is heavy/bulky to lift.

Sorry, I don't understand, why can't you lean on a folding buggy?
And also as pointed out up thread, the silver cross she mentioned DOES fold up.
As she has pointed out numerous times on the thread, she was unable to fold the pushchair, hold her baby, stand safely or unfold the pushchair again.

Sorry if it seems I had a strop I just was having a meltdown due to the nasty poster and venting to try and prevent selfharm. I try not to do this on the Internet mostly but i can't take it back now I'm afraid

Thank you for those posters who truly understand the issue with the pram

I wasn't aware you could get big sturdy buggies (they aren't in my local shop) but thanks for the suggestions as I can look into it

Although DS can't sit up yet not sure if he can use a buggy he'd end up flopped over

I think the bus driver and many many people on this thread are guilty of "infantlising" the nice lady in the wheelchair. No-one seems to be listening to the fact that she offered to wait. Why is everyone deciding she shouldn't have to wait just because she is in a wheelchair if "SHE SAID SHE WAS HAPPY TO WAIT" .

I can see why the lady in the wheelchair user was annoyed actually, she wasn't being listened to by the driver and her opinion was being overidden by the bus driver who thought he knew better.

The situation would have been completely different if the wheelchair user had not been willing to wait, in which case the driver would have been right to insist on the op moving or getting off if necessary.

I don't think it's infantalising her at all. It's the very fair assumption that she's used to her wheelchair being an inconvenience for others and she's probably encountered difficult buggy users before and decided it's not worth the fight.

That's why the driver was right to push the OP to get off.

Bit insulting to say wc user less likely to work. Only wc user I know works. Hey legs are knackered not her arms or brain.
Op hope you are OK today.

She may have been completely happy about it or she have been trying to avoid a confrontation. Most people I know with children who are wheelchair users avoid public transport for this reason.

Yes honking, and the fewer wheelchair users using public transport means the more entrenched it becomes in entitled pram users' minds that it's THEIR space...

It's a wheelchair space, not a disabled space.

I feel very much for you op. It sounds like it's really hard for you. However, a wheelchair space is for wheelchair users and they always have priority whatever the circumstances. It simply isn't a case of disability top trumps, because that would lead to farcical situations. Sadly there is little provision for those with mobility problems who are not in wheelchairs.

But wheelchair users campaigned long and hard for these spaces, only to have them taken over by prams which means many struggle and have to wait which can have shocking consequences. I suggest you read previous threads on this and especially dawndonna's dds posts because they are eye opening.

I think we should campaign for better access. The buses round here have wheelchair spaces and flip seats for buggys plus priority seats. Why can't they all be designed like this?

I sympathise. I have a chronic condition which leaves me in hideous pain at times and struggled greatly on buses with a baby and toddler where there were no spaces for wheelchairs and steps up to the bus. It was really hard but usually people helped.

I'm glad you got to your dd in time. The lady sounded gracious. But I don't think the bus driver did wrong. His attitude was off, but he was right to ask you to leave, he was following disability training which would mean someone wasn't stranded in their wheelchair while 5 buses sail by with people refusing to fold. I wish more drivers would do this tbh.

You see - it does need to be clear cut. They are wheelchair spaces. It is bloody hard for those of us who struggle through disability. But they are wheelchair spaces.

we should try make life easier for everyone and stop assuming that wheelchair users are incapable of living ordinary lives which include the fair share of having not enough buses per route so not enough space

Living in a w/c is NOT an ordinary life, its a life that is harder in so many different ways that you couldn't think of them all if you were given clues. Their fair share of not enough buses means no buses at all if you let people with buggies steal their spaces.

Being in a wheelchair throws up all sorts of challenges that you don't even realise.

For example pin pads. Most shops glue theres down as they're sick of them slipping. Which means unless they're contactless I can't buy from that shop.

Ditto shops with a tiny step out front (more common than you realise.
Then there's the shops that stick merchandise displays in the middle of aisles that mean you can't get down them (my local convenience store is notorious for this).

Everything is just more difficult.

What would've happened if the wheelchair user has got on before your stop? Would you have insisted she got off because you had more right to the space? I think in this situation you expected to stay on because you were there first and it would've inconvenienced you to get off. I agree with the pp who said it HAS to be clear cut that wheelchair users take precedence.

I haven't used a bus for 25 years so I don't know the ins and outs, but it seems to me that you bought a ticket in good faith and hence have a contract with the bus company which surely turfing you off breaches?
I don't think the bus company can have it both ways.They either keep it empty in readiness for a wheelchair user that might or might not materialise, or they admit large non-folding prams and a wheelchair user coming later can't be admitted to the bus.