To pull over?

[pestov]

Just home from a pretty crap journey home from Granny's. I was driving with DH sitting in the back to keep DD 6 months company. We were delayed by over 90 mins by an accident on the motorway, stop start traffic. Baby not a happy camper and despite his best efforts with finger food, entertainment and the like, DH was happy to let her scream until we got to services after the accident for a breastfeed. Was I unreasonable to pull over into the hard shoulder to feed her there? He didn't think it was enough of an emergency. As an aside, her bum was filthy, but he couldn't smell it sitting next to her - I noticed as soon as I picked her up

You have to balance the risk and decide what dangerous outcome is more likely to happen.

This is not stupid.

You are taking into account the likelihood of other users of the road being hurt or worse when the driver of your car is distracted. So the OP's DH should have done much more to calm the baby, and I was justified in breastfeeding a baby out of her carseat - leaning over to feed the baby in her seat would have obscured the driver's rear view and would have required that I take off my own seatbelt, and when a short trip that should take place between feedings turns out to be a much longer trip due to unforeseen circumstances the possibility of dehydration in a young baby comes into play too.

Distraction is a big problem. Legislation is fine and dandy and for the most part it serves its purpose, but it doesn't always inform how best to handle distraction. There is room for individual judgement, and when driving, the rules are not always as hard and fast as they may seem. As an example of what I am getting at, the speed limit on a highway close to me is 65 but driving at 65 if the rest of the traffic is doing 70-75 is causing a hazard. Doing 90 is also causing a hazard.

Fenella, you are free to not read or respond to my posts. For my part, I am free to post.
Clear?

Only someone with no sense of self preservation, or someone who's extremely thick sits in a stationary car on the hard shoulder of a motorway for ANY reason. A quick BF because baby was screaming doesn't give you immunity from death.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/m25-hit-run-death-hgv-ploughs-into-man-hard-shoulder-near-brentwood-essex-1552601

You have to balance the risk and decide what dangerous outcome is more likely to happen.

No. You need to follow the Highway Code and not stop on the hard shoulder unless it's an emergency. Your example about driving above the speed limit is ridiculous and would earn you a sporting ticket.

Speeding not sporting. Damn you autocorrect.

And it is also permitted to disagree with FenellaMaxwell.

Even before I was allowed to take driving lessons, this was driven into me by my dad:

Only ever stop on the hard shoulder in an absolute true emergency
Stop as far up onto the verge as physically possible
Leave hazards on
Leg it up the verge (preferably wearing high viz clothes)
If alone, keep the passenger door unlocked - only allowable reason to get back in the car is approach of seriously dodgy looking stranger

But then part of his job was attending motorway/A road fatal accidents, and he'd seen too many people killed on the hard shoulder.

I am not advocating pulling off to the shoulder to feed a baby.

On the highway, you drive above the speed limit if everyone else is doing it because to drive slower is to create a hazard. Driving significantly slower would get you a ticket. There are minimum speed limits on highways where I live too. Police look at the 'totality of the circumstances' when it comes to driving speed.

You are much more likely to be pulled over for speeding in a 25 to 40 mph zone (anywhere off a highway in other words). These zones tend to be residential and therefore speeds above the limit will cause an immediate hazard. The policy of pulling over speeders in low speed zones has a very solid reason behind it. On the highway/motorway with no stop signs, roundabouts or traffic lights even when the motorway runs through a city, if all the traffic is above the limit, the hazard is caused by the driver who insists on doing the speed limit (or under) and forcing others to brake or pass.

math are you still in the US? It is totally irrelevant to talk about what happens there. I can assure you in the uk if you drive above the speed limit anywhere you can get a ticket. If you drive at the speed limit while others are ignoring it you are not causing a hazard, they are.

There's always one, isn't there.

Here's a very good idea of how traffic law enforcement actually works. While the reference is to one particular American city, the example resonates:

"During daylight hours (really around 5 am, later on Sunday, until about 11 pm, earlier on Sunday), drive at whatever speed traffic will allow. ISP [Illinois State Police] generally does not do traffic enforcement on the expressways in and around Chicago during daylight hours because a traffic stop invariably causes a significant increase in congestion and significantly increases the risk of accidents. Their resources are mainly used in this district during those hours to respond to accidents and incidents. It is thus essentially impossible to get a speeding ticket on the expressways during daylight hours. The exception is the Tri-State; typical daytime speeds on the Tri-State are 65 in the right lane [i.e. the slow lane], increasing to 85 in the left line [i.e. the passing lane], all with a posted limit of 55. Exceeding 90 may get you a ticket, but likely not. The easiest way to get a ticket, actually, is to fail to yield when a trooper pulls up behind you in the left lane and flashes at you to yield the right of way. I've seen them blow through traffic on the left at 100, 110, even 120 miles per hour.

Somewhere around 11 pm (it varies depending on the season and day of week), ISP switches to strict enforcement of the posted limit; this lasts until about 5 am. Thus, late at night, strict adherence to the posted speed limits (including the 50 and 45 reduced limits in the central part of Chicago) is required. ISP mostly snags drunks and out of staters passing through with this policy; the locals know better (which is why this policy is so effective at snagging drunks).

Once you get outside the ring of the Tri-State, the ISP has different policies, and speed enforcement becomes more common, especially in the construction zones."

In other words, the principles of speed enforcement are:

• Allow drivers to use their best judgement when it comes to posted upper limits.
• Cause no harm - don't cause traffic jams or crashes by rigid adherence to the powers vested in you wrt limits.
• Use resources to deal with real problems at times when those real problems tend to occur most.

They do not stand on principle, and limits are flexible and related to actual conditions.

If you drive at the speed limit while others are ignoring it you are not causing a hazard, they are.

Yes you are, no matter where you are driving.

Just because all the other drivers are breaking the law doesn't mean that all the other drivers are creating a hazard.
If other drivers have to brake or pass you then you are a hazard.

In similar vein, if you are the only car doing a significantly higher speed than everyone else, you are also causing a hazard. The speed you may be doing that is higher than everyone else's speed may well be under the speed limit, but it doesn't matter that you are legal. What matters is the totality of conditions.

I could not give a shit about American traffic enforcement. We as in the uk. Thanks anyway.

If you are driving, then nobody second guesses your instructions to them or ignores your distress

This sort of logic used to be a major contribution to plane crashes until they realised, sometimes a second opinion is a good thing, and occasionally it can prevent someone doing something dangerous.

Was - we are not talking about planes.

'Everyone else was doing it' wouldn't wash in an American court either.
I have driven in the UK, quite extensively, and I always took careful note of the legions of drivers being pulled over for keeping up with the traffic, aka speeding.

In fact, I could not even tell you how many cars overtook me today, and I was sitting bang on the speed limit.
No doubt you saw lots of drivers being pulled over too.

My friend pulled over in the hard shoulder once as she was falling asleep at the wheel, the police roasted her and escorted her off immediately and told her to go the service station!

Can't be arsed to read maths posts any more.

Don't take your child out of their car seat in a moving car for any reason. If it's screaming so bad it distracts you then you shouldn't be driving. It's never the safer option to take a baby out of its car seat. Split second is all it takes for someone to hit from the rear and your baby could be dead even at slow speed if you drop it. In slow traffic if the driver hits someone else and the baby is in the seat its unlikely to be injured. Because a car seat is specially designed to keep a baby safe in the event of a crash. Revolutionary idea, eh?

Can't belive anyone should need to explain this.

Maths posts on speeding are just ridiculous. I can guarantee that if 100 cars on the motorway are doing 90mph and 1 car is doing 70mph and the police are parked up with a speed gun and camera recording speeds the only person who don't get a ticket is the person doing 70mph. There is no allowance for excusing your speeding as 'just keeping up with the traffic'. The USA must be a very stupid place if it ignores speeding on the highway because the higher your speed the more likely you will be killed in an accident.
Clearly I am right to avoid going to the USA if what math says is accurate.

And yes, I have heard of people being stopped by the police for driving too slowly on the motorway but you would be talking about somebody drive significantly below the speed limit (ie. Driving 30mph in a 70mph zone). People don't get stopped for driving at 70mph in a 70 zone just because all the other nutters are driving at 90mph.

The police were out and about yesterday and I do find it hilarious when someone goes speeding past you then all but stands their car on its nose to slow to the speed limit because the cops are cruising at 70 a few cars in front or there is a van/car parked up at the side of the road with a speed gun or camera. It is not so hilarious for those who are coming along behind the said speeder, who also have to perform sharp breaking to avoid hitting the moron in front.

Most people simply get their speeding fine through the post because they have been caught by the speed cameras unaware, or been followed by an unmarked car which has taken their licence number. However, I have witnessed people being pulled over for speeding, because I have also driven extensively in the UK. It gives me a glow of satisfaction to see it happen.

Little
It is not so hilarious for those who are coming along behind the said speeder, who also have to perform sharp breaking to avoid hitting the moron in front.
Only if they're speeding too!

However, I have witnessed people being pulled over for speeding, because I have also driven extensively in the UK.

I have been overtaken by a maniac and then seen him stopped . . . outside the Police Training College in Hendon. YEAH!!