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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be too stunned to react?

342 replies

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 23/08/2016 17:32

Long post, sorry. I just don't want to drip feed.

So I was out yesterday with my DD (2 & 1/2) and my DM at IKEA. My DD and I were queueing up for an icecream at the end and DD went on the other side of the barrier to me but just stood there, no intention of running off so I wasn't concerned and I could reach her easily. A little boy (maybe 3) came up to her and with no provocation or reason just shoved my DD. Not hard particularly but she did hit her head on the barrier. Kids will be kids and all but his mother just called after him and he ran off even though she had seen him shove my DD (I know because she had already been calling him before he did it). No apology to me or concern for my DD, just following her little devil treasure. My DM said loudly that it was shocking but I was just too stunned to say anything. The man in the queue behind me said "that boy needs a good slap" but I was too shocked to even respond to him.

My question is, should I have reacted? Said something? My first concern was making sure my DD wasn't hurt (luckily she wasn't). Has this happened to anyone else?

OP posts:
HarryElephante · 24/08/2016 11:33

headinhands has articulated my view far more eloquently than I ever could.

Dang and blast these smart people, making me look stupid all the time!

NickiFury · 24/08/2016 11:34

Hmm, I am sure that parents and children modelling empathy probably feel FAB afterwards, all warm and glowy and pleased with how they handled it. The ones who actually got hurt and upset? Not so much. But who cares about that as long as your child doesn't feel one iota of discomfort? Personally I think modelling humility is preferable but each to their own.

trafalgargal · 24/08/2016 11:37

This is all made up . The poster is claiming she wasn't holding her toddlers hand in IKEA ? Unless she was deliberately choosing to lose her that's the last place you'd let them wander off.

HarryElephante · 24/08/2016 11:38

Humility is not the opposite of empathy, nicki.

Shadowboy · 24/08/2016 11:38

I'm with the OP here. An apology would be the right thing to do. If my daughter had done that I would have made her say sorry to the other child too. No wonder so many kids have little manners.

Had that shove been enough to hurt her head I think people's responses may have been different. I don't think I would have been shocked more irritated by the lack of discipline from the other parent.

Has my daughter been shoved before? Yes she has once at a soft play. And once in a playground where he hit her head on contcrete and had to be be checked over as the limp was huge and bled. A little boy who is not told that this is not appropriate may then shove harder next time....

Just5minswithDacre · 24/08/2016 11:39

It isn't about forcing them to apologise, it's about giving them a simple word to use to express themselves when they hurt or upset someone else. Why does that have to be labelled "humiliation"?

I know Nicki

Apparently in this philosophy - whatever it is - nobody ASKS their child to do anything. It's all a choice between forcing them to do something or waiting them to generate their own urge. I just can't picture this. How does that work with eating, bathing, leaving the house?

And the combination of the parent of the hitter doesn't extract an apology from them, but they DO reprimand (but privately?) whilst the parent of the hittee is questioning the parent of the hitter (about what!? How does the hitees parent respond?) is just not something I can even begin to imagine. It doesn't resemble anything I've ever witnessed.

I just can't picture how it plays out. I feel like I want to see a reconstruction.

I'm actually quite intrigued, but every advocate of this type of thing is always so combative.... Confused

NickiFury · 24/08/2016 11:41

It is when you are only empathising with your own child and are too concerned about "humiliating" them to get them to apologise to a person they hurt.

HarryElephante · 24/08/2016 11:41

Strawmen all over the place in that post, just!

Just5minswithDacre · 24/08/2016 11:44

Well yes, in that position you'd be concerned for the other child and also concerned to equip your child with some insight into what they just did wrong and a suggestion about how to make amends.

NickiFury · 24/08/2016 11:49

I'm actually quite intrigued, but every advocate of this type of thing is always so combative....

Well, yes.

headinhands · 24/08/2016 13:03

How does that work with eating, bathing, leaving the house?

I was talking about the development of inherent empathy specifically. As for getting them to comply with routines it's all about using a calm voice to explain the consequence of not following the routine such as having cavities or being smelly or not having an energy etc. Or make it fun? That's the ideal anyway (says the mum who totally loses her shit from time to time)

headinhands · 24/08/2016 13:04

I work with kids I have a lot more real success when I follow the ideal. I find pulling rank and threats inferior and does nothing to develop their sense of autonomy.

Just5minswithDacre · 24/08/2016 13:23

I was talking about the development of inherent empathy specifically. As for getting them to comply with routines it's all about using a calm voice to explain the consequence of not following the routine such as having cavities or being smelly or not having an energy etc. Or make it fun?

Well, yes, but that's asking isn't it? And advising. That's what most people do (?) Or at least a large number of us.

So if your child hit another child why would you find yourself knocking it into fifth gear and forcing them to apologise? You'd ask them to apologise.

Just5minswithDacre · 24/08/2016 13:24

I work with kids I have a lot more real success when I follow the ideal. I find pulling rank and threats inferior and does nothing to develop their sense of autonomy.

I'm confused about why we've lapsed into 'bloody obvious' territory TBcompletelyH.

Original poster
BeingATwatItsABingThing · 24/08/2016 13:38

My favourite method of teaching and controlling a class of 30 children is to humiliate them by holding them accountable for their actions and apologising to another child if they have hurt them. But only in the morning, by the afternoon, I've had enough so I just let them get on with it.

Alternatively, when incidents happen, I speak to the 'shover' and talk to them about how their actions were wrong. And then we go and find the 'shovee' and apologise for hurting them. No humiliation for anyone. It's not a public berating or apology but both parties need that apology.

OP posts:
Sunshineonacloudyday · 24/08/2016 13:45

You can't force a small child to say words that they don't want like sorry ( I have read to many books ). You can explain to a child why they shouldn't do it and why it hurts. They can tell through your facial expressions that you are not happy. With 3 year olds its all about learning through play. Most 3 year olds are just about talking at that age. To ask a 3 year old to say sorry they may not understand what that word means. Its always best at that age to catch them in the act and explain to them that its wrong. You have to get down to their level. Why am I going through this all again for the 4th time I am not having no more children.

HarryElephante · 24/08/2016 13:48

Bingo, sunshine

Sunshineonacloudyday · 24/08/2016 13:53

Why don't you speak to a nursery teacher. You are a KS2 teacher so all the hard work has been done in regards to speech and language understanding. You haven't got a Scooby Doo. In my local primary school they have a specialist speech and language therapist to come to the school for the reception classes. They have an assistant to get the info from the therapist to teach it to the children.

Sunshineonacloudyday · 24/08/2016 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

headinhands · 24/08/2016 15:45

You'd ask them to apologise.

I use the opportunity to build on their growing empathy by giving attention to the one they hurt. I might say 'your friend is feeling cross that you hurt them' and then pausing as I've made the point.

Making a child who isn't sorry say sorry helps no one. It wouldn't help the person who was hurt, it might make the hurt person more cross, it would me. It's about using the instance to model empathy and it takes time. It's not a one time lesson.

NotYoda · 24/08/2016 15:47

I agree headinhands

headinhands · 24/08/2016 15:47

I'm concerned a ks2 uses humiliation to control a class. Id rather see modelling empathy and community to build a family feel to the classroom.

Original poster
BeingATwatItsABingThing · 24/08/2016 15:56

headinhands, I was being sarcastic. There is no humiliation in my class. If there is was, I wouldn't be allowed to teach.

I'm a KS2 teacher now but I have taught from playgroup up to year 6. I actually do have a clue.

OP posts:
CaptainCrunch · 24/08/2016 16:52

I would dispute that you "have a clue" OP. Your opening post would suggest strongly otherwise, also why is your school not using Restorative Practice. A forced apology is as bad as none at all. The whole incident has to be talked through until the children involved realise the impact their behaviour has on others.

I really find it very, very difficult to believe you are a teacher.

Leggytadpole · 24/08/2016 17:09

Unfortunately CaptainCrunch I do believe her. Her attitude sounds very much like my son's reception teacher.