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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To push DD to apply to Cambridge?

643 replies

AllieinWonderland · 16/08/2016 22:31

So I'm relatively new to posting on mumsnet, but have been a long time lurker, so if I mix up the lingo a bit then apologies!
DSS1 got 9As 3As at GCSE, 4 high As at AS level, and is on track to exceed his AAA offer for Oxford.
Oldest DD achieved 13A*s 2As and a B at GCSE (the B in music - she had a panic attack in the exam and it was on a tape so she was unable to get the time back) and is looking on track for 5 high As at AS level in French, English lit, history, physics, and art. She is seemingly good at almost everything (triathlons at county level and has previously played and trained younger children in cricket and basketball, plays the cello, the xylophone, and the clarinet, won a local photography competition, always gets lead roles in an amateur dramatics group and solos in choir) yet has always struggled severely with self esteem, and focuses on the things she is bad at: sees her B in music as the end of her chance of going to good universities, can't bake or cook to save her life despite much encouragement and teaching, is awful at tidying (she is happy to do it but ends up gradually making more of a mess and gets flustered. Again, I've tried forms of 'teaching' and noting has worked). These latter two issues have led her to thinking she needs to stay at home for university and she is driving me mad by saying she'll go to the local university, which is really not a very good one at all, and the only others she'll consider are those with offers of "BBC" or below.
She has finally settled on studying English literature, and I took charge and booked her on open days at Warwick, Edinburgh, Cambridge, and Durham, and her school took the 'Oxbridge' candidates to Oxford for a trip. She hated Durham, didn't like Edinburgh, thought Oxford and Warwick were okay, but loved Cambridge.
In spite of this she is refusing to consider applying, says it's a waste of an application.
I don't want to push her, but I do want her to apply because she clearly loved it and is more than capable. All of her teachers have been saying it since before I can remember, and she reads almost constantly.
Aibu to try and change her mind?
Sorry for the lack of coherence here, my mind a bit of a mess!

OP posts:
lljkk · 16/08/2016 23:44

Should support her in her decision.

So amazingly talented but such crushingly low self-esteem. :( Why would being rejected or worrying about being rejected, make her feel better about herself?

emmantfc · 16/08/2016 23:44

I very strongly suggest a gap year - this is such a big (and costly) decision to get wrong. University is a huge commitment as are the student debts she'll take on, and a year of work or volunteering or travel might give your DD better perspective on what she wants, and a break from the constant pressure of academia. I was in exactly her position at 17 (same subject, looking at same unis inc Oxbridge) and now I really wish someone had advised me to defer application for a year - I would definitely have made different choices.

AllieinWonderland · 16/08/2016 23:47

She was dreadful at deciding her a levels - she was at one point doing three sciences and English lit!

She ended up with a mixed bag because she didn't really want to drop anything, so kept her favourite subjects (English lit and French) and then her logic was to add in a science (physics - the most mathsy), a humanity (history - was her favourite), and art because she enjoys art... She is dropping both art and physics, because at her school only four other girls do art and she doesn't like them so finds the lessons tedious, and physics because she hates the practicals... She nearly infected the school with ecoli by dropping chemicals everywhere and has six more practicals to do if she continues to A2!

OP posts:
GloriaGaynor · 16/08/2016 23:49

5am conversations are insane. You're just winding her up.

I went to a very academic school, always in the top 10 in the country. In my first year, one of the 6th form students killed herself before her A level results because she was afraid she had failed (she got straight As).

It taught me very early that nothing academic is worth stressing over. And that girls can drive themselves insane trying to be perfect.

The most important thing is your daughter's mental health. Without that she had nothing.

newname99 · 16/08/2016 23:50

Don't rush her for a decision, wait for AS results to settle in.She may feel more optimistic when back at school.

It would be good if she falls in love with a Uni so perhaps she hadn't found the right one yet.

Did didn't think she would apply for Oxbridge but got great AS grades so that changed her plans.
She didn't get an offer which I feel was absolutely right for her.

17 is still young and DD was daunted about living alone at Uni but towards the end of her 6th form she gained more confidence.

As others say, take the pressure off her, if she raises Uni applications just listen and ask questions.Dont offer any opinion and she will start to move towards you.

Consider that the Uni she's choosing could be an act of rebellion, let her feel more in control and she's start listening

VanillaSugar · 16/08/2016 23:51

Royal Holloway!!! London, but not London. Campus and Harry Potter buildings, best uni for research, super lovely friendly students....what's not to love?

OP - as a mother of a self-imposed high achiever BACK OFF. Your daughter has chronic fear of failure and she will never cope in the competitive career you undoubtedly want for her (sorry, that she DESERVES ) if she can't cope with failure.

If you must drag her round the country, take her to university towns but not the unis themselves.

Let her start living her life. Which means you need to let her make mistakes. DD needs to step off the hamster wheel of education for a bit. Poor little lamb.

JaniceBattersby · 16/08/2016 23:51

Crieky. She has all this academic pressure on her, she's a whizz at 'everything' and is in therapy at the age of 16.

Honestly, I think she's heading down the road to burnout if you continue to apply pressure to her to go to the university of your choosing.

She's a bright girl. She's telling screaming at you that she doesn't like the the pressure, that she wants to go somewhere where she might just be able to take her foot off the gas a bit. They are valid choices, and IMO a sensible ones.

You can send her off to Cambridge if you must but it really doesn't sound like she will be happy there. Having a degree from Cambridge is not going to replace emotional health and wellbeing.

FWIW I was a straight A student and I went to a university that was a former poly. I had a blast, fucked up my degree, but am truly happy and would be in exactly the same career now if I had gone to any other uni. I fear I wouldn't even have had a degree if I'd gone somewhere more palatable to my teachers. I was just too young and immature for the whole thing TBH. I should have waited a year or so and made a decision with a clear head and with no distractions from boyfriends.

gillybeanz · 16/08/2016 23:52

OP, I know 3 people like your dd, and I don't believe you are pressuring her, but somehow your wording has come across like that to some.

The first is a girl like your dd, same age and is capable of gaining entry to the best uni's, she will do it herself and not let anyone interfere, she pressurises herself and also has 16 of the highest GCSE's is it A* 5 AS and taking 4 A levels where we know she'll get top marks.
I know the pressure comes from her, her parents support but aren't on the same level at all.
Everyone thinks the pressure comes from the parents but that isn't the case.
It's a vicious circle of self doubt lack of confidence and pressure.
The girls parents have just had to let her get on with it and when she asks for something they supply or support wherever they can.
They would have done exactly the same if the girl wasn't looking at applying for top uni's because she is capable. Who would want their child to miss out on an opportunity? If she doesn't get in or chooses something else it's fine, the same impression you have given.

AllieinWonderland · 16/08/2016 23:52

I will support her if she goes ahead with her Bradford university plan, I just feel she would resent me later in life if I don't try to talk her into looking at other universities that will suit her better, and that she may well be happier at, and if she, as she says, does WANT to go to Cambridge, I believe she has nothing to lose by applying. She would just rather not apply than apply and be rejected. However this is how she feels at 16, and I can't help wondering if at twenty she may wish she'd applied - or applied to somewhere academically better than Bradford.

OP posts:
SapphireSeptember · 16/08/2016 23:56

Didn't go to university, I wanted to be a vet, and was told I was intelligent enough for it, but never applied myself to school work (and the horrendous bullying I experienced didn't help either.) I now work in Sainsbury's and see this as I triumph compared to where I was ten years ago.

As you have said the pressure is from her father, can't you tell him in no uncertain terms to back off? Does he not care how it's affecting her? That sentence is bugging me and I think you need to have words.

MarcelineTheVampire · 16/08/2016 23:56

OP you sound insufferable and a completely overbearing/controlling mother,

You don't think the students at Bradford are intelligent? Wow. And only RG universities will do because your DD likes intellectually stimulating conversation? I'm pretty sure you'll find that any university not just at RG universities.

Leave the poor girl to make her own decision- she sounds like she is heading for a breakdown at this rate.

lljkk · 16/08/2016 23:56

Sheesh, all this angst, fervent belief that every decision has to be the right one or else it's a disaster decision.
Everything is an opportunity.
Sounds like OP's DD needs a whole lot of opportunities that won't be available at Oxbridge.

LikeDylanInTheMovies · 16/08/2016 23:57

Okay op here's my tale of woe. Please see it as a cautionary tale.

I applied to Cambridge in sixth form. My second choice was Warwick. I was academically strong (not outstanding but quite good at passing exams) not particularly confident.

I went to the interview, didn't really like it,told all and sundry it was full of stuck-up, posh twats (I was 17)but secretly felt intimidated and out of my depth. Despite this, or perhaps because of this, I did quite well in the interview and got offered a place.

My mother (was pushy, but not quite as full on as you and you really are very full-on) and the school who'd never had a student go to Cambridge before shat themselves with excitement and then the pressure started.

Oh the pressure. I too had a panic attack in a mock A-level exam (snap) and started to feel that I was trapped and I couldn't get out. Still they didn't see the warning signs. I became volatile, emotional and withdrawn.

Sadly pride wouldn't let me 'throw' my A-levels (and I was worried about throwing them too much so I didn't get in anywhere) and off to Cambridge I went.

And it was then the problems really started. I felt out of my depth, socially ill at ease, surrounded by polished and confident ex-public school types and the pressure felt relentless. whilst I managed a decent effort in the exams, I never felt like I reached my full potential.

By the second year, I felt so low, so worthless, so incapable of escaping my situation I made a pathetic, half-hearted attempt to kill myself (sadly not unusual) and then made the even more foolhardy decision to 'see out' the last year and a bit, rather than quitting and going to somewhere where I felt happy.

I left with an okay degree, but confidence shot to pieces and directionless. A decade and a bit of dead-end jobs followed punctuated by periods of unemployment and depression. My life is slowly getting back on track and it feels like I've been robbed of what should have been the best years of my life. I still resent the pressure my mother brought to bare but she was blinded by the main prize and didn't think what was best for me (which would have been a redbrick)

So, aside from providing some much needed catharsis, what's the point of this?

The hothouse environment of Cambridge and the college system where you all live, eat and sleep together in a bizarre cloistered world may not suit everyone and if your daughter is anxious about this and if like me, she lacks resilience and self-confidence it will be brutally and painfully exposed.

You think you are doing the right thing and have her future interests at heart, but this is not the road to be pushing her down. In fact she doesn't seem to be in the place to make any life changing decisions at all. She needs to find out who she is and what she wants and she needs to do that without her mother calling the shots.

A year out post A-levels would seem to be in order where she doesn't spend it adding to a list of 'accomplishments' and being shoved in whatever direction you want her to go in. Let her figure it out for herself.

Keep pushing and she will resent you for it.

GloriaGaynor · 16/08/2016 23:58

Without that she had nothing

Has not had.

She has a lot to lose by applying now. Her peace of mind for a start. I would concentrate on getting over panic attacks and through A levels and then regroup.

It's not up to you to decide which unis will suit her best. It's her choice, so step back and let her breath. It's not as if your own choice suited you that well.

fizzicles · 17/08/2016 00:01

My sister got 6As and 4Bs at GCSE, then 3As and a B at A-level and went to Cambridge. The one B shouldn't make any difference. If she liked it, she should go for it. It's not an easy place to be at uni, clearly, but it is amazing. It is a stressful application process though, and I don't think you'd want her to go through it if she* doesn't really want to go.

Equally, for high-flying students, learning to try for something at which you might not succeed can be very valuable. It's good to learn to fail!

chattygranny · 17/08/2016 00:02

There used to be an alternative guide to universities but it seems not to have been published since 2008. Do you have a good guidebook like he Times 2015 to give her to get her interested in her future?

PurpleDaisies · 17/08/2016 00:03

What sort of school is she at? Are they aware of her panic attacks and anxiety? What help has she had?

AllieinWonderland · 17/08/2016 00:03

I have supported the Aberystwyth suggestion as I know it to be a very nice place, and I have suggested to her other less academically pressuring universities - like Leicester, Lancaster, and Northumbria, but her interest does largely seem to be in Cambridge (and Exeter though she's yet to look around), or Bradford. Those are the two she seems set on, but only actually wants to apply to one - with that one being Bradford.

Her 13 year old sister isn't very academically gifted, and is more interested in YouTube and makeup than anything else. Her 10 year old sister is on the 'top table' for everything, and her six year old sister considered 'average' for her age. Her step brothers are all confident but into sports more than anything aside from the oldest. I have never been called pushy before, and have always tried to avoid being that way. I just can't help feeling that now is a point when she may regret the decision she makes. I don't think Bradford University (also not an English lit course as they don't do it there) is what she'd enjoy.

Also, I don't lead the 5am conversations, she comes downstairs at that time and we sit on the sofa and watch television as we have done since she was eight!

OP posts:
GloriaGaynor · 17/08/2016 00:05

^ breathe

JakeBallardswife · 17/08/2016 00:08

I think she needs counselling ( and maybe you?) to get over her trauma when younger and to help her self co fidence.

MiaowJario · 17/08/2016 00:08

A gap year would help her decompress and think about what really wants to do. The right activity during that year could build her self esteem/independence. From the British Library gig to teaching English in Japan, let her really find and show who she is, rather than just be joining the hothouse rat race, where everyone follows the same path and kills themselves to be one grade point better than the next.

Also, think about a small liberal arts college in the US, somewhere like Swarthmore. Looks to me that with grades and achievements like those, the world is her oyster. Don't get too hung up on Oxbridge/RG. The world is a much bigger place than that.

GloriaGaynor · 17/08/2016 00:08

She's 16 ffs, she's far too young to be regretting decisions. Any decision she makes now may not suit her in 2 years. And anyway, decisions can be undone.

AllieinWonderland · 17/08/2016 00:09

She's at a girls grammar school, and their support regarding the panic attacks has been marvellous.

Her father was very physicsally and emotionally abusive towards me, and later towards her, and he eventually killed himself, with her being the one who found him.

I am not focused on a Russell Group University - Leicester, Lancaster, Northumbria, Wrexham, Manchester Met have all been thrown in the mix by me and discarded by her, with Aberystwyth one we agreed on. I am focused on her a) doing the course she wants to do and b) going somewhere she likes.

It is her self esteem I am concerned about, and I don't want to worsen her by pushing her, but I also don't want her to resent me for not pushing her (as she has before) and regret her choice.

OP posts:
AllieinWonderland · 17/08/2016 00:10

I know I am full on, but that is the relationship we have and the one she, and I both want.

I don't want her to throw away a course and establishment she likes over her low self esteem. I don't want her life to become any more stressful than it already is.

OP posts:
MiaowJario · 17/08/2016 00:12

A lot of US colleges offer financial aid to overseas students btw.

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