To push DD to apply to Cambridge?

[AllieinWonderland]

So I'm relatively new to posting on mumsnet, but have been a long time lurker, so if I mix up the lingo a bit then apologies!
DSS1 got 9As 3As at GCSE, 4 high As at AS level, and is on track to exceed his AAA offer for Oxford.
Oldest DD achieved 13A*s 2As and a B at GCSE (the B in music - she had a panic attack in the exam and it was on a tape so she was unable to get the time back) and is looking on track for 5 high As at AS level in French, English lit, history, physics, and art. She is seemingly good at almost everything (triathlons at county level and has previously played and trained younger children in cricket and basketball, plays the cello, the xylophone, and the clarinet, won a local photography competition, always gets lead roles in an amateur dramatics group and solos in choir) yet has always struggled severely with self esteem, and focuses on the things she is bad at: sees her B in music as the end of her chance of going to good universities, can't bake or cook to save her life despite much encouragement and teaching, is awful at tidying (she is happy to do it but ends up gradually making more of a mess and gets flustered. Again, I've tried forms of 'teaching' and noting has worked). These latter two issues have led her to thinking she needs to stay at home for university and she is driving me mad by saying she'll go to the local university, which is really not a very good one at all, and the only others she'll consider are those with offers of "BBC" or below.
She has finally settled on studying English literature, and I took charge and booked her on open days at Warwick, Edinburgh, Cambridge, and Durham, and her school took the 'Oxbridge' candidates to Oxford for a trip. She hated Durham, didn't like Edinburgh, thought Oxford and Warwick were okay, but loved Cambridge.
In spite of this she is refusing to consider applying, says it's a waste of an application.
I don't want to push her, but I do want her to apply because she clearly loved it and is more than capable. All of her teachers have been saying it since before I can remember, and she reads almost constantly.
Aibu to try and change her mind?
Sorry for the lack of coherence here, my mind a bit of a mess!

Going somewhere lower key and excelling might be more of a confidence boost and easier to handle.
It doesnt sound like she's be suited to tutorials at all. She'd stress too much and have an awful time.

She has dropped down all the extra curriculars in the past few years - she now does just choir, drama, and triathlons, and stopped music lessons in year 9 so she should just play for fun. (at my demand - she was finding the exams and attending orchestra highly stressful)

I don't consider myself pushy, I have been the one to try and dissuade 3 language at GCSE, dissuade from 5 AS levels, and often told her to stop with extra curriculars.

She wanted to do British library work experience this summer which I said no to because I felt she needed a break.

Wow. What horrendous pressure you are putting her under.

Encourage her to see a much wider range of universities - including ones that aren't as high ranking. Encourage her to go by herself or with friends to look at them - she's much more likely to have clarity about her own feelings about each one if she does that. When she finds the right uni she will know. If she goes to one you push her into then she is much more likely to drop out or have a miserable time. Remember that she doesn't have to go this year - it's fine to take a year out and often works better for students under a lot of pressure and who aren't clear what they want to do or where they want to go.

And stop comparing her to your DSS. What he does is completely irrelevant to what she does and it doesn't even need mentioning in the same conversation

It's important to feel "at home" wherever you go to university, and maybe the likes of Cambridge just isn't for her - all of your preferences have a very traditional academic approach, which maybe she really doesn't like the thought of, and wants something more progressive - I went to one of your preference universities, and can say that it isn't for everyone, not at all!

At the end of the day, it is her choice - you wouldn't want her to go somewhere for 3 years just to please you, and for her to be miserable the whole time.......

Good grief you're putting so much pressure on her. Let her go where she's happy. Just back off, it should be her delusion not yours. 16 GCSEs my God.

Tiger mum, much?

YANBU - I would also encourage her to go to a higher ranking uni with that CV. Two points spring to mind though:

a) I hated my Durham open day but ended up going there later and it was really good - on the open day I was one of the only people there alone in with a whole sixth form from a private school going round together.

b) She sounds as if she might be very susceptible to the Oxbridge crash-and-burn, where people who have built their entire personality around their ability to succeed at everything have their whole world collapse when they are suddenly only the middle of the class or get a 2:1 at Oxbridge.

Go and look at some good red bricks too - Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Birmingham etc - all Russell group but different atmospheres to the ones you've mentioned. A year out might be good for her, that way any offers she gets will be unconditional so less pressure on applications.

I booked her on the open days she told me her friends were going to sk she could go with them, and only did it because she was refusing to look at any.

She has told me how much she loves cambridge, but says she doesn't want to get rejected. I have tried to explain that it doesn't matter if she gets rejected, and if she did it wouldn't mean she wasn't academic.

I didn't want her to take 16GCSEs or 5 AS levels. It has all been her choice.

It doesn't matter what you are saying to her if even we can sense the pressure she is under from your post.

I took charge and booked her on open days - this says it all.

My kids would have told me where to go had I have booked open days for them. They did the research, asked opinions then booked them themselves.

Poor girl is going to burn out at this rate.

Low self esteem and lack of resilience doesn't work at Cambridge. Tends to mean a miserable 3 years. Let her go where she wants. Doesn't have to be a local one. I'd also think a year out would be good - and I don't usually think that

.if she is capable then a good degreee isn't wasted where ever it is from. Better she goes where she chooses and does well than struggles at rg uni that you chose because she is unhappy and never wanted to go there .

stopped music lessons in year 9 so she should just play for fun....at my demand

I have been the one to try and dissuade 3 language at GCSE, dissuade from 5 AS levels, and often told her to stop with extra curriculars

She wanted to do British library work experience this summer which I said no to because I felt she needed a break.

You seem to do an awful lot of demanding and telling...

I booked her on the open days she told me her friends were going to so she could go with them, and only did it because she was refusing to look at any.

What on earth are you hoping to gain by dragging your daughter round the country against her will? You'll end up with a stressed out, resentful teen who'll end up telling you to bugger off.

I did English at Cambridge - it was absolutely amazing. When I got in I was in the depths of a very obvious eating disorder, and had terrible self-esteem - the interviewers deal with all sorts of people and knew how to get the best out of me regardless.

When I got to university it wasn't filled with confident, brilliant people - just clever people of all personality types.

If she's a bit shy then I suggest she applies to one of the smaller colleges like Corpus Christi or Peterhouse. Feel free to PM me if she'd like someone to go over her personal statement or talk to her about interviews.

OP I think you're getting a hard time. Sounds like you are just hugely frustrated because you know your DD can do amazingly well and don't want her to "waste" potentially amazing opportunities.

I was bright but didn't apply myself. My uni choices were totally down to me despite remarks about "second rate degrees" from my mum. I could've really done with someone sitting down and going through it all with me yet I spent hours in the careers room sifting through the prospectuses feeling by totally overwhelmed and lost.

It does sound like your DD is a high achiever but that she is close to burning out. I think some perspective and balance is needed? I chose crap courses that I know I could get on to so I didn't have to face the fear or the reality of failing. Perhaps she's doing the same?

My DD2 is quite bright. She hated Warwick and Durham! She included Oxford in her application after pressure from school but withdrew after passing the entrance test and turned down her interviews (with my blessing). She wouldn't thrive under too much pressure and she wants to enjoy university. One place she really liked which could suit your DD was the University of Leeds. Liverpool also felt quite 'chilled out' as did Sheffield.

NB it is definitely true that some people don't get in to Cambridge/Oxford that should - it all depends on how you perform on a certain day, please make sure your DD understands that not everyone is at their best at all times. Getting an interview from Oxbridge is an achievement in itself!

she loves Cambridge

Therefore a couple of observations:

A large % get rejected from Cambridge, there are too many great candidates, but nothing ventured nothing gained.

Some Cambridge colleges are (or at least used to be) 'live in' for all 3 years, so lack of ability at cooking/tidying do not need to be a stopper for living there.

If she applies to less demanding universities, what would stop her applying for more demanding universities if she gets better grades?

What is the downside of taking the pressure off? It doesn't sound as though she would work less hard.

On the other hand, if you push her to go somewhere and she really hates it/drops out it will be much harder to change course and her confidence really will take a significant knock.

You also might find that if you remove the pressure she will shift perspective of her own accord.

Smellysaurus I think you've got it. She fears being rejected, even though I've said countless times it doesn't matter how many rejections she gets as long as she gets into one she likes, and pointed out the unlikelihood of a rejection from anywhere other than Camridge.

I did suggest Sheffield and Newcastle to her as they seem more 'chilled' to me but she said she doesn't want to be in a big party city. She's proving hard to please which is where part of the issue lies - Camridge and Warwick are so far the only she's been positive about, yet she sees them both, and all the other Russell group or even just universities with higher offers, as out of reach to her.

Can you take on more of a coaching approach? Ie ask her what's the worst that would happen if she didn't get into Cambridge and to see if she could envisage a back up plan? (Back up plans don't sit well with perfectionists, I know, but might help her think through other options)

17 is really not the right age to be making such huge decisions IMVHO. I hope you both find a good way forward.