To push DD to apply to Cambridge?

[AllieinWonderland]

So I'm relatively new to posting on mumsnet, but have been a long time lurker, so if I mix up the lingo a bit then apologies!
DSS1 got 9As 3As at GCSE, 4 high As at AS level, and is on track to exceed his AAA offer for Oxford.
Oldest DD achieved 13A*s 2As and a B at GCSE (the B in music - she had a panic attack in the exam and it was on a tape so she was unable to get the time back) and is looking on track for 5 high As at AS level in French, English lit, history, physics, and art. She is seemingly good at almost everything (triathlons at county level and has previously played and trained younger children in cricket and basketball, plays the cello, the xylophone, and the clarinet, won a local photography competition, always gets lead roles in an amateur dramatics group and solos in choir) yet has always struggled severely with self esteem, and focuses on the things she is bad at: sees her B in music as the end of her chance of going to good universities, can't bake or cook to save her life despite much encouragement and teaching, is awful at tidying (she is happy to do it but ends up gradually making more of a mess and gets flustered. Again, I've tried forms of 'teaching' and noting has worked). These latter two issues have led her to thinking she needs to stay at home for university and she is driving me mad by saying she'll go to the local university, which is really not a very good one at all, and the only others she'll consider are those with offers of "BBC" or below.
She has finally settled on studying English literature, and I took charge and booked her on open days at Warwick, Edinburgh, Cambridge, and Durham, and her school took the 'Oxbridge' candidates to Oxford for a trip. She hated Durham, didn't like Edinburgh, thought Oxford and Warwick were okay, but loved Cambridge.
In spite of this she is refusing to consider applying, says it's a waste of an application.
I don't want to push her, but I do want her to apply because she clearly loved it and is more than capable. All of her teachers have been saying it since before I can remember, and she reads almost constantly.
Aibu to try and change her mind?
Sorry for the lack of coherence here, my mind a bit of a mess!

You are a wonderful mother.

OP - I'm so impressed with how you have responded to the many helpful,posts on this thread. Having now read the whole story, I agree that a year out would really benefit her. As others have said, I don't think she's quite ready for university just yet. If and when she is, I would consider York . It has a world renowned English department and it's a lovely city to live in.

You're a fantastic mother. Well done for using this as an opportunity to reflect on your family's situation xxx

Have read most of the thread, then scrolled to your last post.
for what you have all been through & survived.

Sometimes it takes the most unlikely catalyst to make you stop and properly acknowledge the enormity of what you have come through (you yourself, as well as the extended you that is your daughter & wider family).

It's not a bad thing to happen tbh - it's an opportunity.
A chance for you to finally look at what you've been through & grieve/get angry/get sad at what you were dealt - only then can you properly finally package it neatly and file it away.

Wrt the original points of the thread though, one thing that jumped out at me was the idea of a break for your daughter - the initial thought for 'gap year' is time off from study, but she seems to thrive & rely on learning and study as a coping strategy.

With that in mind, rather than the traditional path of a gap year prior to going onto the university & course that is 'the one', would it maybe be feasible to view the Peace Studies degree at Bradford that she'd identified as an interest as her gap year(s)?
She can do an 'easy' degree, and live at home - still learning academically but also having some time to grow into adulthood & her own identity, whilst improving her self esteem along the way.
When she's completed that she can go on and pursue the degree in English Literature that is her ultimate goal?

I'm not up to speed with how university applications etc work, or if there's a specific window of opportunity for Cambridge that would be missed by that route, so apologies if it sounds like a naive idea!

MangoMoon I am thinking of suggesting something along similar lines - foreign langauge courses at the local college, as she loves learning languages (she forced her school to let her do Japanese), so to me that seems like it would be a good balance - she would be able to keep doing what she loves (studying, sigh) but in a relaxed environment and while building herself up as a person, and tackling her mental health issues.

She will then be able to apply to university (or just leave home and get a job. Or fuck it all and live in squalor. Ideally not but if it makes her happy...) wherever she wants, when she is ready too.

Given how young she is for her year, she could even take 2 years out and still be the same age as I and my friends were when we went up to uni.

I think a language is a great idea, perhaps combined with art or creative writing classes - as evening classes, life classes - once a week type thing.

I'd also suggest that she reads biographies of writers and other accomplished people who experienced mental health issues when young and still had successful careers.

OP, I think a gap year would be best, but even if she does end up going to the wrong university and hate it, she still has many options.

One thing that does come through is that in some areas your DD has massive amounts of grit. She is still very young and life is long.

Just look at all the British Olympians who haven't had an entirely straight path to success.

For what it's worth.

I teach creative writing. It's become a very popular option as part of undergraduate courses, as well as a possible degree in itself. From the point of view of university fiances it 'sells'.

However, it's arguable that it's not a great idea for young people to start trying to write,with the aim of publication, at 18. They really haven't had a lot of life experience to write about. And if their life experience is painful they haven't reached a place where looking back and drawing on it is in anyway 'safe.' It took me 30 years to start using difficult autobiographical stuff in my work, though I began getting published in my 20s.

I deal with a great many manuscripts where people are regurgitating personal pain - they are for the most part confused and almost unreadable, and their authors are not in a position to start standing back from their material properly and editing it. There's a hell of a lot of technique involved in writing well. It's like ballet. Not everyone can do it, and those who do it to a good standard have to work very very hard. It's not always that much fun!

I think there's a balance to be struck between dealing with the pain of the past and learning to move forward.

I also suspect that it can be really unhelpful to tell young people - especially those with an unhelpful perfectionist streak - that they should be inspired by great women and men. I think that for many of us to learn how to work slowly towards independence, to form friendships, to find a measure of happiness is the most important thing of all.

There is a lot of useful advice above. At the end of the day teenagers must decide for themselves. The school mentioned Oxbridge to my two this week as they both got AAAA in AS and a few almost and a few exact full marks apparently and I hope they consider all options in the next 3 weeks. I suspect they would not get in and do not want to work as hard as they would have to at university so they probably won't try and I'm quite relaxed about. This family has done very well in London legal careers with high pay in the next tier down from Oxbridge so unless you really want to go don't.

You seem like a very wise mother. It would be a pity of this girl went to a local university because she's worried about her ability to tidy up and cook though. One of my daughters had a friend with mental health issues before, during and after university but it still worked out okay. The friend went to Oxford I think it was - utter perfectionist unlike my lot.

I also suspect that it can be really unhelpful to tell young people - especially those with an unhelpful perfectionist streak - that they should be inspired by great women and men

Personally I would find that attitude unhelpful, and anti-intellectual.

I've derived such pleasure and drawn such strength from reading about all kinds of people - not just writers - although if you're interested in literature writers' biographies are fascinating. Another source is ordinary peoples' lives in extraordinary situations - such as war, Revolution, different cultures, different historical periods.

Working towards the things you list doesn't preclude reading - and I find reading about life - whether fact, fiction, philosophy, psychology can teach you how to live.

I think to tell young people who may not come from a privileged background that they can aim high and achieve their goals - and show them other people who are good role models - can be helpful.

If somebody has 16 GCSEs and is freaked out about getting a B, and has a background of panic attacks and major family difficulties, I think it is very easy for them to get the idea that they 'should' succeed in everything, and they are a failure and worthless if they do not. Genuinely, if you have suffered major loss and trauma, I think it is sometimes the more ordinary things that count most.. Learning to relax, to laugh, to work out who to trust, how to start being independent, how to get a good night's sleep. I honestly believe that is more important than GCSE Japanese . (Particularly if you are a long way from being able to go off and travel/live independently/work in Japan.

I am not anti-intellectual. Studying has been a major pleasure in my life. My partner, and I and our three children have all done our best to make the most of educational opportunities. But I do think that if we can't prioritise emotional/physical/mental health - our own and that of our children - we're screwed. Basically.

Very ambitious self driving children though often push themselves, rather than their family doing it. It is just now some teenagers are made.

I take the point. But I'd argue that sometimes - not always - the 'drive' is aksi very much tied up with running away from something. It can be an attempt at control, rather like - say - anorexia.

People can and do break down at university when their emotional robustness is a great deal less evolved than their intellectual ability.. Which is rather where this thread started.

2016Blyton

Bragging again are we? Do you hunt through threads to find the ones where you can incorporate yet more boastful facts about yourself in your replies. It's tiresome.

I think reading is an ordinary pleasure, I'm not sure why you're tying it into achievement and success. You seem to interpret it as 'studying' which I don't think it is at all. For me it's a pleasure. It's all about prioritising health and wellbeing.

Reading is great. But frankly if I'd discovered my father's dead body, came from a background which featured domestic violence, was having regular panic attacks/PTSD , was a desperate overachiever who couldn't cope with getting less than perfect grades, was having to adjust to my mother's remarriage and a bunch of new siblings, got hugely stressed about routine matters as such as tidying as well as the prospect of leaving home - and then someone said to me, 'Never mind dear, here's this book for you to read about a woman who overcame adversity. That will sort you out. '' I might feel rather as if I had a brain tumour which somebody was attempting to treat with a nice cup of tea and an aspirin.

Never mind dear, here's this book for you to read about a woman who overcame adversity. That will sort you out. I might feel rather as if I had a brain tumour which somebody was attempting to treat with a nice cup of tea and an aspirin.

??? Who has said it would 'sort her out' that or anything like it? I'm surprised you teach creative writing given your bizarre interpretations of plain English.

I actually came back to this read because I noticed in the paper that the new Cambridge exams are starting this Autumn.

That could be an extra argument in favour of a gap year, in that, while they don't need specific revision, it's useful to have done some preparation, which may to add the pressure.

I did Oxford entrance back in the days of the exam. The terms were different then - you got a 2 E offer and that took the pressure off your A levels.

Well, I'm ever so slightly surprised that a person who did Oxford entrance has no apparent understanding of rhetoric or irony. But there you go. It takes all sorts.

Well, I'm ever so slightly surprised that a person who did Oxford entrance has no apparent understanding of rhetoric or irony. But there you go. It takes all sorts.

If you want to pass off misrepresentation/inaccuracy as 'rhetoric or irony' that's up to you. I won't continue this discussion as I don't want to derail the thread.

( I was very relieved my very laid back twins got 4 AS and more pleased they got the same than that it was all As, actually as twins do compare themselves a lot; but I wasn't really consciously showing off - I am just relieved. They probably don't have high enough GCSE results for Oxbridge and I would would get in but we can certainly consider it if they want to in the next few weeks. The school is keen but as one of the boys said to me today we allk now what that is so they can tell parents XYZ number of boys have applied for Oxbridge and if 10 try and 9 fail but they get 1 in that looks better than none getting in. On an individual level if there is not much chance of getting and they are not sure they want to go there the boys will probably take the view there is not much point) and no I don't hunt threads to show off on. I am much more pleased my boys are happy and stable and have good mental and physical health than good results)

On the question of role models I do thnk it helps teenagers to see and follow role models and by having a lot of good adults in their lives, older siblings, relatives, teachers they can form balanced views. In many cases their parents are the last ones they trust for advice so having other role models around particularly one or two really good teachers they get on with is very important.

Yes 2016Blyton I can see how some other posters might regard you as showing off. I think you are coming across as being a teensy weensy little bit smug and patronising. But that's just my personal opinion and what do i know? Ha ha ha! I'm so glad you have practically perfect twins and role models. Should anyone ever find themselves being less than perfect for you, we'll all be here to offer up and and and and .

2016Blyton I think you know exactly what you are doing. If you don't then you are spectacularly unaware of how you come across. You are a knowledgable poster and I have often seen you give great advice but I find your relentless bragging insufferable.

We know you used to earn 10X your ex's salary but you really don't have to remind us quite so often. I think you consider yourself some sort of role model to us mere mortals but it's hard to respect someone when they continually preach about how wonderful they think they are. It's patronizing
As one of the most identifiable posters on MN aren't you ever worried about what your clients, friends or family would think of your posts?

OP I think people have been unnecessarily hard on you on this thread and you sound very intelligent and thoughtful.

Just wanted to say - don't feel bad for a second about having the thread deleted, it happens all the bloody time on here!