to think my niece is more than just sensitive?

[mendimoo]

My brother, his wife and their 5 year old DD have been staying nearby and visiting for the past week. DN is home educated by SIL and I haven't seen her since she was three until this week because they've been living abroad. Both DB and SIL describe DN as 'sensitive' and they seem to go to great lengths to avoid upsetting her. For example - she can never be asked to do anything immediately, under any circumstances, or she refuses, screams, shouts and cries. She always has to be given notice and told of at least two things that are going to happen first. I.e. I'm going to brush my hair and go to the toilet, then we need to put your shoes on.

If she can't find something, she'll say she can't find it, ask where it is but if someone tells her she absolutely dissolves into hysteria. SIL has to say 'perhaps it could be on the bed/in your bag/in your drawer' even if she can clearly see exactly where it is.

Today we were in a lift and she was running her finger up and down the line of the doors in the middle. A lady told her to mind her fingers when the doors open and DN was whimpering, on the brink of tears, looking absolutely furious and refused to speak to anyone for over half hour. Similarly, the other day she tripped but I caught her before she fell and she behaved as though I'd shoved her in front of a passing car. Earlier in the week when she did actually fall over and had a tiny graze, she was completely hysterical for over an hour and a half.

If people don't talk to her in the 'right' way she completely shuts down and DB and SIL spend a great deal of time and energy trying to coax her back to equilibrium. I have my own children and have worked with children my whole career and I appreciate some are more sensitive than others but this seems extreme to me. I worry that SIL is stuck homeschooling because she knows DN wouldn't cope at school and I want to support her but when I broached it I was told she's 'just sensitive' and will grow out of it.

I don't understand how anyone can conclude that this child is spoilt or indulged! That's pure judgemental guesswork based on very little information. The OP herself has very little information.

The behaviour that has been described is a cause for concern. She has described autistic type behaviours, which may or may not indicate autism. Ideally the parents need to seek an assessment - they might have already begun that process - who knows! The way they are communicating to her sounds like they already understand her needs and know something about supporting her.

I think BOTH sides of this argument are being judgemental!
People are so quick on here to diagnose SN when it could well be simply a case of only child pfb etc etc (I have a "lonely only" so am well qualified to commemt...) Young kids do need a time frame eg "we're leaving once I've washed the dishes and you've cleaned your teeth" my dd is older now but it's still in everyone's best interests to give her the "we're going in ten minutes..." followed by "we're going in five..." etc etc but this is typical of most of my friends with kids of the same age (ones with more than one child) It simply let's the child know what to expect and give them time to finish their game etc.
I certainly don't pander to mine as I'm keen to lose the "only child" spoilt stigma.

a little off topic sorry but i just wanted to say thank you to those who've contributed real experience and knowledge to this thread.

over recent years i keep returning to wondering if i'd like to formally find out if i am, as i suspect, on the autistic spectrum. i look back at myself as a child and the issues that were considered over sensitive, picky, awkward, selfish, difficult etc and for which i was punished or endlessly criticised and remember actually why/how it felt/what drove the issues that they were so convinced were just deliberate being difficult. i remember the real terror of putting certain things in my mouth, or the total overwhelm of certain situations.

even now as an adult i'm aware that despite how well trained i am certain situations see every instinct in me wanting to put my arms over my head and hit the deck. i'm aware i've embarrassed myself by freaking out because the noise and lights and general too much-ness of a situation has gotten too much for me. i'm aware i catch myself pressing my eyes and squeezing against them and rocking slightly in, to me, stressful situations and catch myself and make myself stop or most often withdraw away.

i kind of wonder what it would have been like if someone had bothered to ask why i was stressed out, or why i couldn't eat that thing, or why there was no way on earth i could wear that squeaky, wrong fabric rather than just assuming i was a pita.

this is tmi and i know it's the wrong thread but yes, wanted to say thank you to those who bother to explain and try to educate. it helps.

It's not the wrong thread

The parents may already know or suspect a developmental disorder - they are certainly making sure the world is adapted to their child's liking.
Our friend's boy has ASD, he was diagnosed when he was 4 - when did they tell us?
Never.
We worked it out for ourselves.
10 years now - finally DH when drunk said to them "we are not stupid we know he's ASD" - they are ashamed of it and act like he'll grow out of it and their strategy is to relentlessly adapt the world to suit their son and manipulate friendships, school etc. It's a strategy and their choice.

So, OP, mentioning she might have ASD may not get a brilliant response.

I skip to last page from OP and find some interesting posts

I don't think anyone on here has been quick to judge. We do have information from OP that parents have said they won't have more as they didn't realise how hard parenting would be.

Reading between the lines this means they've adjusted what they wanted or thought they should do t what they need to do for their DD. In fact that's great parenting. But I'd parenting is that hard then assessment needs to be carried out to find out why.

It doesn't sound like the little girl or her parents are very happy. And a Sw who thinks trying to support the family by looking into why is labelling the child needs to apply for a job elsewhere.

Ok, so kind of caught up!

Your DN might already being tested for autism at the moment. I have no experience on this so cannot comment.

DN does seem very extreme but I think that your bro and SIL will already know this. What is the reason she is home schooled? Was her behaviour like this when you saw her previously or has it changed in the time you didn't see her?

Polter I'm glad you read honeys post. Reading it made me think of you.

Honey the thread is not the wrong place to post. Threads like these are great chance to educate people that extreme behaviours are normally not deliberate. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think that behaving the way described by the op and you is deliberate - and fail to see they clearly aren't behaviours that make the person happy.

She screams ASD to me and I have 2 out of 3 on the spectrum. One high functioning and the other severe.

I also have DNeph who lives 300 miles away and we don't see often ... He is 6 and they sound similar DSIL has moved other kid to worse school so they can be together because this school can cope with his behaviours.
DSIL won't have him assessed because she doesn't want him labelled. She'd rather he was labelled as absolute little shit than PDA.
I've hot 2 kids in the row trim but can't bear to be near this kid! It's not the parenting as his DS is an absolute delight and I could keep her !!!!

thank you fanjo and youare and thanks polter - can i ask if you're glad you got the diagnosis? i've been off googling again since reading this thread.

Sorry my post was a bit rambly and actually nothing to do with what I do at work.
From what is written in the op the child sounds very indulged. In my opinion - which is all a thread like this is - opinion. That doesn't make it true either - it's an opinion. I'm very curious as to whether the parents have tried to challenge the kid on her behaviour and what the outcome was - because that information IMO is probably the difference between indulgence and a more recognisable emotional/behavioural issue.
Otherwise it's really a bit like making assumptions on whether I'm any good at my job based on my random posts on mn

Furthermore - asd/autism/ similar being suggested immediately anytime a child is a bit sensitive/awkward/presents anything vaguely asd like always concerns me a bit. There are lots of conditions/ behaviours/ whatever your preferred term which present a bit like asd stuff. Disordered attachment is a common example. A deductive diagnosis isn't helpful. A clear diagnosis leading to tailored support might be.

Honey

We're all on the spectrum to some degree or other

Keep back pedalling Clara

Yes..NT people are not on the spectrum

Autistic people are on the autistic spectrum.

No one else is.

You either meet the criteria for autism or you don't.

No, we are not all on the spectrum to some degree.

OP I also thought of PDA when reading your post. If they will be amenable to exploring professional help, it would be ideal for them to seek it for your niece sooner rather than later, as PDA is a very niche diagnosis on the autism spectrum and there are specific methodologies for dealing with it which differ from those used with children with more well known variants of ASD. If it is PDA, it may be hard to get her the right professional help and very much depend on the area she lives in, so it's best to start the ball rolling asap, and seek private professional advice as well if possible.

One of the key elements of PDA (which seems to be more often diagnosed in girls, btw), is difficulty dealing with everyday demands on the self or the ego which NT people (and indeed many with diagnoses of classic autism) would find inconsequential or unproblematic. So the warning of key things about to happen would fit that, but also her inability to manage minor requests or encroachments on her self without reacting with oppositional behaviour. One thing that differs from "classic" autism is that children with PDA do not always respond well to rules or structures because those are the things they precisely find intolerable, so whereas someone with classic ASD may well find routine and structure comforting, children with PDA experience this as others assaulting their sense of self (hence the meltdowns).

If she is on the spectrum, OP, I wish her and your family all the best with finding the right support

Also, just wanted to agree with pp that the idea that we are "all on the spectrum" is not true. This is an entirely unhelpful way of understanding ASD, which IMO derives partly from people like Baron-Cohen and his dotty ideas about autism being a version of the "male brain". (I am very familiar with his research btw, so I am not saying this lightly.) It is only just starting to be acknowledged that ASD often presents in girls differently, largely because girls are socialised differently to boys, so may learn to "mask" or compensate early on. Ideas about what autism is or looks like are starting to change a great deal, and we know that it is a developmental condition which is very different to being in the world as a NT person. It isn't just like an extreme of being very geeky or masculine where being warm and feminine is on the other end of the line, it is something very different to that.

Like others say, she could have ASD, or just be very spoilt/indulged. Why hasn't she ever been sent to school do you think?