Want to move , husband does not

[Saza09]

Talk

Dear all ,
I desparately need advice . My husband and I are both irish but have lived in lonon for nearly 20 years. I really want to move home to be near my folks and my husband's family . I miss ireland a lot and we are always there . I have always done so.

Part of the move for me is to have a slower life and a more rural small town life with family time. We have partied hard here and lived london to the full but i desparately want calm and quiet and rural views and most of all my folks and in laws nearby for my kids to have a family life.

Objectively , we have an amazing life here in London .

The kids (aged 7 and 5) are well settled here and very happy in a fabulous school and we have a wide range of friends (including irish from uni and childhood ). On paper , all looks good for london and very few understand why i want to move but I am terribly home sick and want a change of pace and direction. My husband has a fab job here and if we moved he would commute from ireland staying two nights away . I have tried to give up on this ireland thing but i just cant.

It is tearing our marriage apart as my husband does not understand my need to go home or why family is such a big thing (for me , my parents are aging and I want to spend time together before they die).

After years of arguing , we are on our knees about this. I finally persuaded him to put an offer on a house in ireland and we lost it today . I am heartbroken and angry with him for not making it happen (the offer was low and half hearted ). I am close to divorce. I know this is not just about "home" but about the state of our marriage and my unresolved need to be near my parents. However , I am so consumed by anger that I have had to persuade my husband for so long when it is obvious (since the birth our first child) that I desparately want to go back. I don't get why he can't see how much this means and why he has not until very recently been open to any discussion on this. I appreciate that he does not want to be separated from us and his careerbis successful and here. He loves london. is it wrong of me to want different things and expect to be listened to ? Why has it taken a year of constant arguing forhim.toagree to think about moving ? Feel like I am losing my mind . Advice please x

Batteriesallgone 'letting himself in for'? Nice...

I grew up in Southern Ireland wanting to leave and as soon as I had finished university I did. I've lived in London almost 20 years now- married a French man whom I adore and whom I would never have met in Ireland and we have 2 beautiful boys who lead an interesting life here...... the stuff they do now aged 6 I could never have dreamed of - every time I visit I wonder how I survived my childhood there. We visit Ireland every 6 weeks - we go to France 8 / 9 times a year- and we have a nice life here. I look at what I have achieved and it would never have been possible in Ireland. When we think of moving it's to Paris. And we almost did this year- with me travelling over to work Tuesday morning back Thursday evening and tempting though it was - it is something I could do only for say 2 - 3 years max - if you're asking your husband to do that for say the next 10 - 15 years then I think that is unreasonable- the thought of being away from my family for 2 or 3 nights a week with early starts and late finishes on travel days for an undetermined period of time is too much to ask. Would you be prepared to do it? If not then you can't expect him to...... if you have a nice life in London and your children are happy then just enjoy it..... also I've had similar thoughts about my parents- but you have to think of your life and that of your children - mine are half Irish but growing up there is not what is best for them. And the Ireland I grew up in is long gone - you could make this huge move and realise it's a terrible mistake - Husband is not happy- kids are not happy and seeing parents is not what you thought it would be. My advice for what it's worth- enjoy London- holiday there more and get your parents to visit. Far off fields are not always greener....... some people would love to live in London and experience all it has to offer - don't turn it down for a life which in your head you think you want......

OP Is one of the issues here that the argument has been going on for so many years that you've both lost perspective? Like, does he not want to consider a holiday home/extra visits/making sure your DC know Ireland and their heritage? And are you feeling it's all or nothing? I think maybe due to how frustrated you both are the argument has become stagnant.

Maybe you two need to agree to sit down and talk as if the issue had never been raised before?

Busydays13 I'm fairly sure that OP knows Ireland has changed since she grew up - she currently travels to Ireland? Has probably noticed? I don't understand why people are giving so many 'warnings' re leaving London - 'you don't know what things are like over there now' - the point is, that is where she wants to be and her being unhappy is not good for the children either I am sure. The issue is how her and her husband compromise - I agree with some of the other posters that him finding a job in Dublin is a good option. Honestly Dublin is pretty similar to London anyway - just less risk of your kids getting stabbed on the bus on way to school type thing. London is amazing but it isn't for everyone, and Ireland isn't an allergy that people need to be made aware of. For some people it is, and always will be home. My younger sister moved to Ireland with my mum when she was 14 and adjusted pretty well. I live in London still and travel there regularly but my point is - children don't get bored there. Not every child who doesn't live in a city misses out on experiences. And there are huge downsides to London too. This thread actually just confirms to me how much I want to leave London.

Also your point that you wouldn't have met your husband in Ireland - presumably her children will leave at one point, travel, commute, make their own adult choices about where they want to live. It isn't a death sentence to move and it isn't necessarily forever.

Flugel well if he feels negatively about it that's a fair expression isn't it? For example he may well have friends / relatives doing the Dublin - London commute who've said - it's hugely tiring, don't do it.

I wouldnt want children in London personally but that's not really relevant from this thread...from holidays in Ireland it seems a lovely place to have a family but OPs DH is clearly in a much better position to know what it would be like for him personally and is resisting.

There's no easy answer, someone has to compromise. I think the question is who needs/wants it the most and who is strong enough in the relationship to be strong for the other. Love is compromise. I think if it's breaking your heart and you would never feel at peace if you didn't go back then you should go no matter what. However, have a long hard think about the reality of it. If you take the children and disrupt yours and everyone's lives it had better be the right decision and sometimes the dream of something is not the reality of it. If you end up divorcing over this then ypur marriage was on the rocks before this because this shouldn't break you. It's a big ask of your husband but if he knows it's destroying your soul then he should do it. Likewise if you know it would destroy his soul to leave you need to come up with a compromise! Could you have a trial year?? Best of luck X

Yes, because that's really going well... Unless you mean talk about compromises?

No I'm talking about communication. Divorce is a way out but it won't help really. There's not really a solution though, you're right communication should lead to compromise and not be so sure that everything is set in stone. One year of commute and review for example. Kids are adaptabl.

Like I said upthread, I think the problem is maybe this fight has been going on so long they've both dug their heels in and aren't open to thinking about new ideas/compromises.

Totally agree communication is the issue here. They don't seem to actually be 'hearing' what the other is saying.

Maybe I shouldn't really be posting this but my husband and I lived in London for most of our 20s and early 30s and moved home to Ireland before starting a family. (Although a short term work trip means our son is actually Welsh) It's been, hand on heart, the second best thing we've ever done, the first being having our son. The main change is that having left London, it's like we're really quite rich. We sold our little London terraced house with teeny scrap of garden in crappy area and with some of what we had left after clearing the mortgage, bought a big detached house on 1/3 of an acre in a lovely part of my home city. We could not have afforded for one of us to not work in London as our mortgage was too high, now we can afford pretty much whatever lifestyle suits us. I stay at home and my husband works. He earns less but our disposable income is many multiples of what it was in London. We run two cars, when we couldn't afford one in London. We holiday several times a year, eat out when we like, easily afford days out and never really have to think about what we buy. Yet our savings just keep growing because we just don't spend all of what we budget for spending. So instead of touching our savings for holidays/big purchases, we just use our current accounts as the money has built up without us even trying.

And while my city is no London, it does have museums, galleries numerous sites of historical importance, etc. And we go to them all the time, because we have lots of free time and plenty of cash. We can also visit London/Paris/Barcelona/etc and experience their cultural offerings whenever we want. In fact, living in London I so rarely visited any of the places of interest unless we had people visiting us. I looove British history but never even visited the Tower of London until a holiday in London after we moved back to Ireland. It's hard to say for sure but I think it's a fair guess that my son is going to get to visit a lot more great places than the average kid in London. And when he's not on holiday he can take advantage of the more run of the mill stuff, like numerous sports teams, soft play areas, cinemas, roller-rinks, fantastic river walks etc that we can easily walk to from our house.

But worth so much more than any of that is the relationship he has with my parents and his extended family. It may not necessarily take a village to raise a child but the benefits of having that village are innumerable. Having more people than he has fingers who he can 100% rely on, that he knows love him completely, that he sees and spends time with many times a week, gives him such an advantage in emotional and practical terms that nothing could ever replace. It's wonderful for him and it's wonderful for me because unlike most stay at home mums I spend my day surrounded by great adult company having fun and being loved every minute of my life.

London is a great city and I love so much about it, I have so much affection for it and still sometimes think of it as 'my London' and am a little sad that it isn't 'mine' anymore. But my life felt kind of brittle there, I could never fully relax, work pressures, financial pressure, distance from my family. I wasn't ever truly at peace. Not everything in my life is perfect now, my MIL died shortly after my son was born and it was heartbreaking. My husband took it very hard and he's only now starting to get back to his old self. But even when things are hard, I feel strong in ways that I never did in London. I'm centred and and life is easy yet insanely fulfilling. And ultimately just really, really, really fucking happy.

I don't think there is any anti-Ireland sentiment - it doesn't matter where the OP wanted to go, it is the part about expecting your husband to completely compromise his own life and his relationship with his children to enable your dream that is generating the heat. Especially as the OP left Ireland by choice herself and has lived elsewhere for the majority of her life.

No mention has been made of anyone else asking to live there - not the children, the parents asking for a return - just the OP feeling the pull of home. OP, I do think there is a lot more to this for you than you have said on here (which is absolutely fine) and you do recognise that your family (DH and your children) have a great life where you are now. The anger you feel towards your DH seems completely disproportionate to the situation.

I wonder how long the OP is expected to put off her dream of returning to Ireland. She wants to go back to be with DPs as they get older and become ill. This is bad enough just now when there seem to be 2 parents but when there is only one parent left the pull will be all the greater and the need and urgency for the OP to be at home to help the last parent will be so strong. She will want to be present at the deaths of her parents and if she does not achieve that she may well feel very unhappy and guilty.
What if OP puts off returning to Ireland until the DCs graduate by which time the DPs could already be gone? If her dream is withheld from her for yet another 20 years she will be more resentful.
If the day comes when the OP is alone, parents dead and DH could be dead or they could be divorced and then she is finally ready to achieve here dream. Then illness strikes her and the DC don't want her to be far away in Ireland but they still want to have their own lives and rarely visit. The dream will be gone for ever.
If this was to be OPs outcome it would be that she spent her whole life wishing for something relatively achievable and never got it. How horrible would that be for her?

As the op has stated she has always missed Ireland - and perhaps has always wanted to move back.

For all we know she may have quietly said so on meeting her DH, but these conversations have a habit if being ignored or conveniently forgotten. Until she is becoming louder and louder.

CotswoldStrife isn't it at least as much his decision as hers to 'compromise his own life and his relationship with his children'? If he really wanted to he could find a job in Ireland or work out another solution. As it is, he's half-agreed to two nights per week away from the family to keep his career in London going. That's his choice, isn't it (and not the end of the world, I'd have said)? OP just wants a different kind of life for herself and her children. The trouble is that the main earner is the main decision-maker here and he's not prepared to compromise.

And I guarantee you that if she wanted to move to Devon people on MN would be FAR more supportive than they are of her current proposal.

Hi OP

I wanted to say that I completely understand how you are feeling. I also think that so many posters on this thread don't fully understand your situation. If you had an idyllic childhood/teenage years in Ireland and you always felt 'completely Irish' and you love home and even more importantly you didn't promise your DH that you would stay in England forever................

It's impossible to explain to even my closest English friends who know me so well but they will never 'get' that part of me. I suspect that I would have ended up in your position except sadly my marriage broke down when my children were younger than yours are now.

I came over with ExDH straight from university. It was always discussed that we would go back eventually and over time (the more successful Ex became, the more wedded to the City and his success he became) it seemed that he was less and less keen on the idea.

I also know that you get to this awful position where you love London/UK but you are not English and that you love home but wonder have you been gone too long...........could you ever really settle? It's a horrible feeling that maybe you don't completely 100 % belong/fit in either place. Also, if you do want to go back, the earlier you go the easier it will be for the kids - they'll loose their accents and become Irish. Later, they will be the'English kids' and potentially struggle. If you wait until they have finished school here, will it be too late for you to start over (which is what going home will be)?

I think it depends on what you and your husband agreed, how important your marriage is to you, how strong your marriage is (how good a husband he is), the life you want for yourself and your children. I also think counselling would be a great idea just to have someone outside your family/friends to discuss things with. Sometimes saying it out loud helps.

Most of my Irish girlfriends felt the pull of home in a different way when they had children and most of their Irish husbands are so defined by their careers here that they would hate to loose that.

Wishing you best of luck..............it's a difficult situation to navigate.

That sucks OP, your husband is being a shit to have done that to you with the house.

My OH is English and thank god has started being more receptive in recent months to my wishes to go home once we have kids. I miss Ireland, it's a lovely place to grow up.

No mention has been made of anyone else asking to live there - not the children, the parents asking for a return - just the OP feeling the pull of home.

Isn't that enough - the OP feeling the pull of home?

An Irish woman marrying an Irish man both working in London - there is no surprise at all that one or other of them might want to move home. It was a given in every Irish emigrant/expat couple I knew. sometimes it was the man who wanted to go home more, sometimes the woman. In my anecdotal experience, the man's wishes nearly always prevailed - but I know other people who say the opposite.

Also, the OP is a human being living her life. She doesn't need permission from her family to feel the pull to home. She feels it. Her children are young enough for it not to matter much (can't see anyone on MN saying - "no don't move to York from Cornwall because your 7 year old isn't asking for it"). So basically she wants to live in Ireland and her husband wants to live in London. And they are both perfectly entitled to feel that way. It seems her feelings and wishes are being dismissed - even on MN - because she wants a change and the DH wants the status quo. But feelings and desires and strong emotions about how to live your life don't work like that.

Whichever is best for them as a family (and I say this as the one who gave in - it isn't a compromise by the way) her needs and wants are just as valid as her husband's are. It is ok to want to live in Ireland as Irish people and rear Irish children, living close enough to family to see them and help out with them. That is just as important a consideration as a job and way more important than museums etc. (do people really think there are no museums or cultural activities in Ireland???)

This is hard. I think OP should talk to someone herself and maybe they should both also talk to someone. But she is certainly not being unreasonable.

My closest friends and her husband did the "wife and children in one city, husband working in London and staying away 2/3 nights". It ruined their marriage

DH used to do this commute in reverse (Dublin to small UK airport) and found it intolerable.
Yes it's quicker to get through a small airport but it also means you have much less choice in what flights to get. In our case it meant he had to leave on Sunday early evening to be able to get to work on Monday morning so he never had a full weekend at home. He also found that flights were very frequently delayed by several hours. When flights were cancelled he would have to stay away an extra night to get back because there were no alternative flights offered.

He travels a lot for work with no complaints but the relentlessness of a weekly air travel commute was too much.

I do understand though because we now live abroad in an entirely different country and if I didn't think we would return to live in the UK at some point I would probably not be able to cope. I think you need to find a long term plan to move your dh's job to Ireland if possible.

I understand your desperate homesickness OP. I also live abroad (although much further from home so cannot return at weekends). Our assignment is over in 6 months and I'm so excited about going back.
Homesickness is debilitating and at it's worst it is life-ruining.

I also understand your husband though. Living in rural Ireland when you love London and your life/career and your children are happy is not going to be a good thing. He will be the homesick one and you will be back at square one as a couple as he begs you to go back to London.

You cannot push him into it, it wouldn't be fair. The best solution in this difficult case, in my opinion, is that you fly out to Ireland every other weekend and during school holidays with your children. Good luck OP

Well I suspect OP isn't coming back to discuss it further.

I have been in the op's children's position although I was much older. It is very difficult to be accepted, I am still referred to as English even though both parents irish and I have been living here longer than I ever lived in England. If you are returning to a rural area it's particularly difficult as friendships are already established and although we had plenty of cousins and the children of our parents friends to play with when we visited, in reality when we moved we found they had there own friendship groups.

However the big difference for us was that both parents wanted it and it was always part of the plan. Good luck to op and dh, there's alot of tough choices to be made.

Well I suspect OP isn't coming back to discuss it further

Same. She didn't get the answers she wanted.

My husband works in the UK one week a month and it's hard. The two dc age 7 and 4 miss him and it's hard doing bedtime and school runs myself plus shopping etc .it's pressured on your own with kids. Unless op intends to live right beside her relatives well then it might be different . We live 3 hrs from my family near dublin and visit once a month. If you are planning / have to live a few hrs away from your parents you might see more of them by just flying over etc . Counselling is just great to getting to the root of issues and helping sort them in your own head space . This decision is huge and will have massive effects financially and personally on not just you but every one in your family.please consider it .its really fantastic to help.