Want to move , husband does not

[Saza09]

Talk

Dear all ,
I desparately need advice . My husband and I are both irish but have lived in lonon for nearly 20 years. I really want to move home to be near my folks and my husband's family . I miss ireland a lot and we are always there . I have always done so.

Part of the move for me is to have a slower life and a more rural small town life with family time. We have partied hard here and lived london to the full but i desparately want calm and quiet and rural views and most of all my folks and in laws nearby for my kids to have a family life.

Objectively , we have an amazing life here in London .

The kids (aged 7 and 5) are well settled here and very happy in a fabulous school and we have a wide range of friends (including irish from uni and childhood ). On paper , all looks good for london and very few understand why i want to move but I am terribly home sick and want a change of pace and direction. My husband has a fab job here and if we moved he would commute from ireland staying two nights away . I have tried to give up on this ireland thing but i just cant.

It is tearing our marriage apart as my husband does not understand my need to go home or why family is such a big thing (for me , my parents are aging and I want to spend time together before they die).

After years of arguing , we are on our knees about this. I finally persuaded him to put an offer on a house in ireland and we lost it today . I am heartbroken and angry with him for not making it happen (the offer was low and half hearted ). I am close to divorce. I know this is not just about "home" but about the state of our marriage and my unresolved need to be near my parents. However , I am so consumed by anger that I have had to persuade my husband for so long when it is obvious (since the birth our first child) that I desparately want to go back. I don't get why he can't see how much this means and why he has not until very recently been open to any discussion on this. I appreciate that he does not want to be separated from us and his careerbis successful and here. He loves london. is it wrong of me to want different things and expect to be listened to ? Why has it taken a year of constant arguing forhim.toagree to think about moving ? Feel like I am losing my mind . Advice please x

OP I understand you but I am from London and would do anything to go back. However, we can't afford it. Everything is there for me. My family. My friends. My home. The streets I grew up on. I know everything there, the ins and outs. So I get your longing for home. I no longer think of the people so much, but all the things I used to do. London is fantastic for that, especially the kids. They'd miss out on all the great trips but they would gain family if you went back. It is a hard one as now you have kids who are well settled.

You sound single-minded OP. I'm not sure this is the best way to be if you want to be happy

The grass is always greener etc.
Would it be possible to buy a holiday home / mobile home if on the coast in Ireland rather than uproot your whole family for YOUR dream that might not work out .
The way you are going on might lead to a family break up - your dh unhappy, your dc unhappy, a lot of angst.

I'm not sure London is that good for kids. Just think what better standard of living away. My teenagers have never been that keen on London to be honest - we have trips there from time to time but it's never somewhere the kids request to go back.

I could have written this, OP. There's a huge cultural difference between Irish people and British people, I think (and I've lived in London for 13 years; I'm married to an Englishman). The pull of home is not something they seem to feel as much and they aren't as close to their parents/families. I am always shocked at how grudging my friends are about travelling quite short distances to see their families - two days at Christmas and they're done! My in-laws live in Devon and come up to London regularly to see their friends but they haven't seen us since Easter when we went to them. I completely understand that you have a different, better life in mind and that a lot of people in Ireland DO commute - something people probably don't realise. I think counselling would help and also a proper fact-finding trip for you and the family so you could look at schools etc and make it into less of a leap into the unknown for everyone else. I don't think you're unreasonable. Ireland is a great country in lots of ways and the standard of living is higher now than most people realise. I'm desperate to escape over-crowded, expensive London too.

I understand exactly how you feel, I have the same situation. Married my English husband who I love, but just before we got married I told him I would go back to live in my country ( brazil) he agreed to come with me, now with one kid and a good life, good job here it just seem crazy to leave everything behind, but I just don't care, I want to go and I want to be with my family there( brother,sister and mother. In my case I worry about him more than anything. But that's what I want, I love London but I love brazil as well. Can you afford a holiday house there where you can go In every opportunity you have to be with your family? At least Ireland is close so it would be as difficult to go and back all the time? I think it would be hard to your husband and I understand his point

Lots good advice here already op. I have been in your situation and it was causing a huge prob between dh and myself- kids in school age 6 and 8 and he finally decided was right time to move and we went to my hometown- v rural albeit stunning and we hated it- turns out being near the family I had longed for was not all I had hoped - my.kids did not settle at all. I realised my trur priority should have been the little family I made not the one I came from....We managed return to our city home-.- financially costly but worth it for.our peace of mind.- a close friend I know did similar and I think u have to try hard get outside perspective and the sayings seem rather trite but the grass is not always greener and would your dh wholeheartedly cope or end up resenting you? I feel it's an old.fashioned idea that kids need rural life as a better alternative to urban life .... urban areas have better job choices. Access to all manner of facilities and infrastructure and kids soon grow up -.I'd rather a savvy independent pre teen /teen that has some independence locally without being driven everywhere and then mad keen to bugger off to the big smoke as soon as they are 18..... I know they fly the nest anyway but I figure make it easy for them to stay near it!!!!!

I'd also add that everyone being all pearls-clutchy about the five and seven year old being settled in school makes me laugh. I live in London and the state primary where my DCs go (an excellent one) loses about 10% of each year, every year. People move out of London. Children change schools/move to private education. The turnover is constant.

The big problem as I can see it is that the op expects that she and the dcs will move to Ireland, and her DH will just visit - he will continue to live and work in London in order to pay for her dream, he'll give up seeing his dcs every day, have to travel back and forth weekly, so that she can have a better life - I find it worrying that " extra time with grandparents" is seen as more important than "extra time with dad".

That's a massive thing to ask someone to do. The strain it would put on their relationship, the extra stress it'll put on him, it is such an unreasonable thing to ask!

If they move then they move together, relocating part of the family is unfair.

The op needs to find a way to make living in the SE of England work - outside London commuting in daily might be better, grandparents coming to you for extended periods, going back every school holiday. Ways to make it work unless her DH can get a job in Ireland and them all move together.

*The big problem as I can see it is that the op expects that she and the dcs will move to Ireland, and her DH will just visit - he will continue to live and work in London in order to pay for her dream, he'll give up seeing his dcs every day, have to travel back and forth weekly, so that she can have a better life - I find it worrying that " extra time with grandparents" is seen as more important than "extra time with dad".

That's a massive thing to ask someone to do. The strain it would put on their relationship, the extra stress it'll put on him, it is such an unreasonable thing to ask!

If they move then they move together, relocating part of the family is unfair.

The op needs to find a way to make living in the SE of England work - outside London commuting in daily might be better, grandparents coming to you for extended periods, going back every school holiday. Ways to make it work unless her DH can get a job in Ireland and them all move together.*

^^ This! especially first paragraph.

I imagine if we had a post from a woman saying her marriage was on rocky ground and her DH had asked that she and the DC move back to his home country, even though she and the DC were perfectly happy here, most posters would be telling her not to do it.

I think the DH in this scenario is being set up for a split that is more convenient to the OP as she will have support in Ireland. If she splits now, she won't be able to take the DC to live in Ireland due to the Hague Convention.

If it's OK for DH to see the kids less often and commute to and from Ireland, surely it is OK for the OP to move to Ireland and commute a couple of days a week to London? Or is it only the DH that is expected to make this totally unwanted sacrifice?

Flugelpip In your list you say that most Irish and English people are different from each other, that it surprises you how rarely many English people see their parents.
Sorry it's not a direct quote of your words.
It has surprised me too when on Mumsnet. So different to our my way.

By the way have you seen the new Irish topic section Craicnet on Mumsnet ?

I'd stay put in London until kids are off your hands. Sounds far too difficult to make everyone move. I'm second generation Irish. Rellies all moved to London for work. Some hankered for the old country and moved back in retirement. Some loved it. Others not so much. Do lots of weekends and hols. Kids grow on a flash of an eye. Concentrate on them.

This thread seems to have an anti-Ireland sentiment as much as anything else. I don't see anyone saying 'yes it could be great you should ask DH to find job out there' - I wonder what the response would be if this poster wanted to move to a rural part of England where husband would have to find a new job anyway. Vast amounts of people choose to leave London - especially Irish who are closer to their families than the English. And I don't understand the mentions of museums and parks?.... There are museums and parks all over the world. Not sure 7 year olds that interested in museums. My mum lives in Ireland and my Dad commutes to see her at wknds - it just works for them. Not every situation is black and white.

OP, I was in a very similar position. Both irish, moved away, I wanted to move back and dh didn't. We stayed in the end because we had left it too late to realistically move the children without a lot of trauma. We have a great marriage but for years this was the big issue we fought about. There is no compromise - one person will lose and one will win. And even that isn't great. I knew dh would move back if I wanted to, but I wanted him to want to move too - didn't want to force a reluctant move on him.

I almost think you have to be Irish to understand this. It isn't just missing home and elderly parents (both mine died while I was away and it was horrible not to be able to see them and care for them day to day) it is also the feeling of being in the "wrong" country. I am still sad sometimes that my children don't have the same childhood experiences with me - no Irish spellings, no leaving cert, no gaeltacht trip, no real knowledge of Irish history etc. They are a different nationality to me and that is hard.

That said, we have a great life where we are, we made our decision and I made peace with it.

In your situation, I think I would bargain for buying a small place in Ireland - the feeling of owning something at home would be great and spending a lot of the holidays there. Could that be a compromise? Could you afford it?

There are no solutions. Staying in London is not a solution, going back to Ireland is not a solution.

You and your husband are.a partnership. Your children are Irish and English, both countries are a part of them. Nothing has to be forever, I think people get too rigid in their ideas that moving uproots children or that careers are not flexible now or in the future. That new doors don't open and new opportunities don't arise.

I traveled all over with DH. My first son went to 6 different preschools in four different counties by the time he started primary school. I wanted to be in London, where my family was so we made it our base and DH continued travelling. Living out of a ssuitcase. It was ok at first but got worse. DH is also south American. The children were not picking up his culture. He got more miserable and I decided to make a change. He changed career, we moved, I learned a new language and we now live 5000 miles from my home.

I'm not going to rose tint it. It was hard but we did it together. One gives for the other and that can also be exchanged.

I think people are being hard on you and underestimate how hard this can be and feel. I have been there and I have sacrificed for someone I love who was also there.

No solution, just keep talking this through

Hi OP
Being from Ireland myself, and also living in London, I understand the pull of home. I've been in the UK for 16 years, married to an Englishman, and no matter how long I've been here, or he many wonderful friends I have, it will never be home. There's also the issue of the children not being Irish if they grow up here, English accents etc. Ironically, I don't have a huge desire to move home but I find it hard living somewhere that is not home, if that makes sense.
I think realistically you're going to have to settle for staying here for the foreseeable future or you're going to end up in divorce court. And as someone else mentioned, if the latter becomes reality, chances are your British born (?) children will be blocked from leaving the country by your husband anyway.
Sounds like you might need to go to some form of counselling because otherwise it's going to end up a stalemate. But realistically, as the main breadwinner (am presuming from your post), what you're asking him to do is quite huge, commuting from Ireland, barely seeing the kids etc, and I see his point. I think on this one you're going to have to settle for regular visits and eventually retiring over there. But it's so hard, can totally empathise with your point of view.

No solution, just keep talking this through

Yes, because that's really going well... Unless you mean talk about compromises?

Your children are 7 and 5 and you have been fighting for a year over this. Your poor children must be feeling the atmosphere. Seek some counselling..for your unresolved need to be in Ireland. Have some couples therapy to see if it is your marriage driving the need for change...or the need for change driving a hole in your marriage. You could calmly discuss a long term strategy...say both looking for a home nearer to airport or ferry so visits to home are easier. Make a 10 year plan ( your children will be 17 and 15). If hubby and children are happy and settled it is unfair of you to sacrifice their happiness and financial stability on your solo dream. If dh always said 'one day we will...' but doesnt mean it..that's cruel.
I think small steps in a long term plan ( dual nationality passports for all, maybe) may be needed if a move to Ireland becomes everyones goal. It is a massive risk to take with everyones happiness to uproot them for an unknown future.
Fwiw, my hubby commuted 300miles a week for 6 years to enable me the dream of moving back home. It was hard work, miserable and lonely being a lone parent for part of the week.Itvhas cost a fortune. His relationship with the children was affected, and our ability to communicate with each other as a couple was badly affected by tiredness and constant arriving and departing.There was huge pressure to try and maintain relationships socially and no money for family activities as it all went on petrol/flights/business expenses which we were liable for as we chose to move miles away from where he worked
It was not fun and it very nearly broke us. I dont see much of my family as much as I wanted to/ thought I would because I still work, so do they and qa\lity time is hard to find in our busy schedules. Children are if) time school.GrandP's health means visits and trips I have envisaged as carefree are often fraught by the social needs of my young family and the health or mobility needs of my aging parent.It isn't the same as those long relaxed weeklong vacations we had previously enjoyed..it's much more real than that.
What I hope to share is that to have a long term joint goal is important..but it needs to be timely and positive for everyone...is it downsize to Ireland after early retirement ? It it making a financial package to fund such a lifestyle?
I do truely wish you all the luck in the world.

Holly I hadn't seen that - will seek it out!

user1469928875 I think you're right - people are reacting very strongly to the idea of Ireland, specifically, being nicer than London. I have a friend who's recently moved to Dubai with her husband and children for five years - that, to me, seems like a much more profound upheaval, since they'll be coming back and moving the children twice. But I suspect Dubai for work would get a much better reception here than Ireland for family...

The OP says she's given London a fair go and likes all the likeable things about it but she's not happy and she wants a different, simpler life. Rural life in Ireland is not the same as rural life in England; there's a much stronger sense of local culture with the GAA and local customs and just a long sense of heritage. She also said they spend a lot of time in Ireland. It's not as if she's been in Australia - she presumably knows what the country is like. So I don't know why people are telling her 'it's chaaaanged.' London has changed a lot since I've been living here!

'Making it work' in the SE of England is not really going to suit anyone - and it just shows how little people appreciate about the culture gap here. On the other hand, there might be a compromise if the OP moved to Dublin or one of the other cities so she was closer to your family and had a chance to give her children an Irish upbringing. Yes, her DH would have to take a drop in salary but he could presumably still have a career (people do have careers in Ireland; I know this is shocking to many in this thread [hmmm]). Or commuting would be easier. There are LOTS of people doing this; Dublin to London is one of the best served air routes internationally. It's a short flight and regulars have their routine. The main issue is more that her DH is going through the motions. Personally, I don't think any career (which will end one day, let's face it) is worth more than family, even if it means you have a ton of money and five holidays a year.

Giving myself 3/10 on the grammar/layout of that reply. ALWAYS PREVIEW.

user I think if OP had said 'DH can get a job in and it would be similar commute to what he has now', the responses would have been very different.

But it seems as though her solution for his career is that he should commute via plane, hugely compromising time with his kids, at a time when the fallout of Brexit is still unknown. Which is a much much bigger ask than, for example, requesting a transfer to an Irish office.

I am not in different countries - still in England but I live 150miles + from where I grew up and I often think about wanting to go 'home' I live where I live but I have no emotional ties to it, no long term memories, no driving past somewhere and being able to go 'when I was little I used to go there' the pull to move back is huge, my family are there, memories are there, but I also know that the reality is very different and isn't that straight forwards - the difference in house prices being a major issue.

But whilst reading this it suddenly dawned on me, that whilst there might be my 'home' it isn't for my family. Their home is here, their memories are here and whilst it might make me feel more settled, it could lead them to feel how I do.

I think some of the compromises offered - go home more often/holiday home etc may be the way forwards, for now at least.

Also I think people are forgetting that the OP's DH is Irish and presumably still has family there.

It's not like she's married to an Englishman who's only visited a few times and just refuses to contemplate living there, blustering through blindly ignorant of the lifestyle, benefits of Ireland etc. Her DH knows what he would be letting himself in for and doesn't want to move.

I'd argue that if you're 5 and 7 you don't have a very strong sense of place/culture anyway. Again, maybe it's a London thing but many, many people I know are busy moving to the home counties and starting new lives where the DH is travelling for longer hours and only seeing the DCs at weekends/holidays. And it's seen as normal. Others are moving to Australia and North America to start new lives. To be honest, Brexit would make me more inclined to want to leave and be a certain part of the EU than to stay where the fallout is unknown and the future is uncertain.