To think this is not such a good idea to blame me for DH's decision with PIL?

[logosthecat]

Ok some background.

PIL are difficult - DH and I both agree wholeheartedly on this, there is no argument (fwiw, BIL and his partner also agree!). However, DH loves his folks and does want to maintain some kind of relationship. Long history of domineering/bullying behaviour, DH has had counselling to deal with it. They live at the opposite end of the country.

They have been retired since their 40s (inheritance), and they don't really remember what it's like to deal with the stresses of the working week. I think they don't really understand the difference between 'rest' and 'relaxation' - that, if you're absolutely exhausted by work, the things that you might normally find relaxing, like going to nice places, can become a chore.

DH has a VERY demanding job. Long hours, lots of responsibility, lots of aggro. And it's just got worse as he's been promoted. We tend to use the weekends for rest and recuperation. However, when we visit them, it is a cacophony of noise and activity for day after day - we are literally marched around visiting places from first thing thing in the morning to last thing at night. DH is harassed and stressed and upset by this (they are also terribly insensitive, which doesn't help). He frequently becomes ill during or after the visit, and we then hobble through the following week with him going to work and returning to collapse with exhaustion in the evenings, because he hasn't had the downtime he needs. It really bites into our quality of life.

For this reason, we are trying to have shorter visits with PIL. We used to do 4-5 days 4 times a year. We are trying to see them for 1-1.5 days more frequently, every couple of months.

So here's the issue.

We are due to visit their home in August, and DH outlined to them that we'd only be spending one night (2 days). (This has been clear from the start, but they have been conveniently ignoring it to now). All hell broke loose. FIL went into full emotional blackmail mode: 'This is TERRIBLE, your mother will be terribly disappointed, she's been so excited with all the days she's got planned, we're not getting any younger' etc etc etc. We hosted them for a long weekend last month, and we also saw them at a beer festival the month before!!

DH kept his cool but framed the decision that it was pressure from me. 'I need to spend some time with my wife, I've only been staring at screens the last few weekends, and she says she wants some time for just the two of us'. This is not actually true. We agreed together that we didn't want to do the long visits, and I have not, in fact, asked for more of his time! The issue is simply with the way that they are stressful to deal with and both of us reach our limit of tolerance (beyond which we are simply gritting our teeth) at about 24 hours in their company.

AIBU to think that this is likely to lead them to dislike and blame me for the changes? And that there might be better ways of handling it, like being more honest about the actual state of affairs? (I don't mind being told I AM being unreasonable if it is a good plan, I am just not sure we are handling this as well as we could).

I'm mortified that anyone could think that this is about age! As I said in one of my (ahem, rather abundant) previous posts, I have a lot of friends who are older who are absolutely nothing like PIL!

murmuration already said the things I want to say, only she put them better than I possibly could. My parents are roughly the same age. They are exasperating in their own unique ways (I love your story about the shampoo!) but I'm sure I am also frustrating for them to handle at times. The major difference is that they listen to DH and me (to an extent, anyway), and they are very understanding of the work and time pressures. We don't spend as much time with them as I would like, and not even as much as we spend with PIL, simply because PIL have been the ones being passive-aggressive and clamouring for attention. I think it's time to change that.

I am certain that not all those who retire early become self-centred (from what DH has said, PIL were very self-absorbed even while FIL was working). Indeed, I know several people who have become more busy, not less, as they have given up work, with volunteering, childcare, caring for older relations, and other responsibilities! It's just that PIL aren't like that: they have basically spent the past 20 years on an extended holiday doing whatever they like without having to answer to anyone. A brief period of 'caring' for GFIL was a comprehensive disaster, in which they behaved atrociously to a dignified old man who was very vulnerable. So the notion of having to negotiate with the needs of other people, or even the idea that others are not so free and must cope with time pressure, deadlines, the exhausting nature of work etc. is very alien to them now. Because they are literally unable to empathise with others or even to put themselves in another person's shoes in the most basic way, this becomes a problem.

It doesn't appear to me that they suffer any consequences for their behaviour at the moment; as numerous PP's have pointed out, they are behaving like young children, and even if they are behaving in that way perhaps for the same reasons as young children, it doesn't make the behaviour acceptable in an adult. I agree with you, by the way, that this probably has developed because they've had a couple of decades of not having to act as responsible adults, and that it's no doubt worsened as a coping mechanism to address their fears of aging. And I say that as an old(ish) person, who also doesn't particularly need to give a crap about what anyone else thinks - it'd be very easy for me to turn into a steamroller, too.

You are allowed to set the agenda. You are allowed to say how long you wish to stay for, and what you wish to do. Your needs matter as much as theirs. They are perfectly entitled to say that if you visit, it has to be on their terms; you are perfectly entitled to refuse those terms. But, as with small children, you need to tell them what your expectations are, you need to decide in advance between you (as in, you and DH) where your boundaries are, and you need to agree in advance what will happen if those boundaries are breached.

This may mean that, when you have told them that you will be visiting for two days, and that you are happy to go out with them for one day, but that you will not be waking before x time, and you will not tolerate being woken in the night. Then, if they insist on a constant round of activity (beyond that agreed), or wake you before the agreed time, or prevent you from sleeping, you leave. Even if it's at three in the morning; you pack, you leave and you drive to the nearest hotel you can find, get what sleep you can, and then drive home to relax. And yes, it'll be tough, and you'll no doubt get tears and complaints - but it's a lot easier to deal with those at a distance, and it's unlikely you'd have to do this more than twice.

They are being allowed to behave in this way because there is no disadvantage for them in doing so. Until they see how their behaviour impacts on them, they're not going to change it. If it helps, think of it as being cruel to be kind - you're preventing them from further alienating everyone around them, and allowing them to have a better relationship with you and their son. It's probably not going to be as rewarding as teaching a child how to behave appropriately, but it's just as necessary if you're going to continue to have a relationship with them.

goblin it's my parents are the problem for me, not the in laws; but I can truly say that their idea of love was so dreadful that the lessons I've taken are how not to behave. Sounds to me like these PILs are the same; love is not love that bulldozes over every stated wish, it's selfishness.

Logo's PILs sound like they don't even see her and their son. They're cardboard cutouts to the PILs, who expect them to fall in with their own plans even at the expense of their health and others' health.

Goblin with respect, unless you have been in a situation like this, I really don't think you can judge.

I've lost both my parents. Please believe me when I say I have every respect for the elderly and the difficulties that they face.

In fact I think it is because I, Logos and others on here treat our seniors with respect and politeness and consideration that these situations can run away with us!

I for one was absolutely desperate to have a good relationship with my inlaws (one of the reasons I left splitting up with a previous boyfriend so long was because I loved his family - particularly his parents - so much!)

I tried year after year after year to please my in-laws and to meet all of their expectations. They ran roughshod over every visit and every attempt. It was truly miserable.

As Logos said, this is absolutely to do with age (apart from her pils denial of it but that is a separate issue and may admittedly feed in to their strange behaviour).

It came as a terrible shock to me but just as some elderly people can be unselfish, wise, sensitive, warm, respectful of boundaries etc etc, other elderly people can be (sadly) malicious and bitter and manipulative as the next person. Most, like all of us, are a mix of both!

sorry - typo - absolutely not to do with age!

I have just read the whole thread and would like to say how beautifully you write logos. I've really enjoyed reading every post.

They really are bleeding you dry, aren't they? My DH never understood how exhausting I found visiting his parents as my MIL would just not stop talking at me. I realised over time that DH, FIL and BIL just tuned her out completely so really didn't notice her going on and on and on. I had problems early in our relationship with DH not listening to me, and I truly believe it's because he learnt, or was taught, at home that women aren't listened to!

I totally get how very draining and exhausting it is. Their behaviour is really quite outrageous, isn't it? I thought early on in the thread that your PIL really don't like each other very much, and wondered if they struggled being on their own.

The denial about the natural ageing process seems quite marked to me.

I've wanted to shout JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP FOR ONE MINUTE! at them throughout this post!

I wondered if you could use Miranda's 'Rude!' whenever your MIL criticises you. I find it such a useful word

Keep writing that book! I'll certainly buy it! Love your writing style.

Good luck

sequential - that's a great post, thank you. It's interesting that you did once have a really great relationship with a previous set of 'in laws'. Proves it's not you that's the socially difficult one!!

arkengarth - Your post made me laugh out loud because I know exactly what you mean - DH can do the tuning out thing too! His eyes go all unfocused and his voice changes and I know he's not really 'with me'. In fact, he did it yesterday when I was talking to him about kitchen units (ok. ok. alright, alright, I admit it's not the most riveting conversational topic in the world). Cue me tapping him with a rolled up menu and saying 'OI!!' . He will then repeat what I've just said, word perfect, but will cheerfully admit that not one of them actually connected with his brain. Fortunately, he is very good at listening if I am ever actually emotional rather than just wittering about Ikea furniture.

I do like the Miranda 'Rude' thing, because it makes a joke out of it. I'm often more comfortable in that register than I am in the assertive one . I am also, if anything, actually clumsier than Miranda in real life!!