To keep bailing out DS and rude GF

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

Been a lurker for a while ,but first post. Please be nice to me!

My DS21lives with his GF in the same town as us. He works hard but has a hand to mouth existence on MW . They don't have children. She doesn't work . She was ill for some time - mentally but would not seek help and so couldn't claim any support as ESA needed medical evidence. Last year after a row , GF was not speaking to me and has not since , despite me apologising for my part. She is selfish, with things she does together eg in their home . He has told me stuff which makes me feel it's not a balanced relationship , despite him working all hours, she doesn't keep house , arranges stuff to suit her not both of them. I have discussed with my DS him moving out to his own place- said I would help him do so ,but he worries for her health if he did.
We don't have a lot of contact with DS , just when they have crises it seems, which is getting wearing , but even more so because of her as I feel her lifestyle makes crises more likely eg this time it was a vet bill for her rodents and unexpected bank charge.
So last contact was for more money yesterday . Reluctantly I agreed to give them some money after pointing out to him that I was essentially funding her lifestyle . I contacted them this am to arrange to meet to give it to them. I texted GF as DS does not have phone they share hers. "I have some money for DS how can he get it? " The answer arrived a few seconds later. " put it in an envelope and pop through the front door" ( of the shared house they live in) . No thanks , no consideration of risk of losing money and I now know she suggested that way so that she did not have to see me.
Email conversation ensued, clear she doesn't want any face to face contact with me - just my money it seems. Very depressed about her attitude and that DS is with her despite this. It seems I am blaming everything on her , I am not he is part of this , an adult , making his choices and as I said seems to come only when he needs something.
I feel for my son and don't want to think of him hungry going to work but really do not feel like supporting her any more, and can't support him through a crisis of their making without supporting her. AIBU thinking this way? Would it BU to just stop after this having agreed to give him some cash (£80) which I don't think despite the horrid email train this am would BR . Frankly I just wish to relationship would end , can't see it surviving long term.

I mean, you only seem to have your son's word for all this.

I'm personally aware of a very similar situation where things were definitely not what they seemed.

Your son's relationship sounds identical to one a friend was relaying to me about her neighbours offspring. The lad was immobilised emotionally as he was fearful his girlfriend would harm herself.
The mother eventually gave them 'food parcels' if they went hungry - no money as this was propping up the whole situation. This meant her son had go ask and collect them if needed.nWhen the money stopped the relationship came under more stress and he moved out.
I agree tough love is the way forward - something has to stop the vicious circle. Good luck.

Whether it's a relative or friend it's up to you how you let yourself be treated.
However hard it is I'd stop lending them money, sometimes people need to learn by their own mistakes and lifestyle choices.
I would also mention to him/them that you hardly hear from them and it'd be nice to see them on a more regular basis.
Manners mean alot to me too so I'd have to say something on that front as well; although as I usually do, I try to get my point across in a jokey way .

You're doing all the right things, now you just have to have the strength to see it through.

It's worth saying again, while ever they can get themselves into trouble believing you'll rescue them, they will.

Along with the smashed/sold phone, one thing I wondered was whether the envelope through the letterbox was also so that she could get her mitts on the cash before DS did and whether it would then actually be used for what you were giving it them for.

By bailing them out, you are enabling them to carry on in the same vein and their will be no end to it. I know it's so hard, but shut down the bank of mum. I suspect that it won't take long till either your son realizes that life with her is not for him or she has to get off her backside and pull her weight. Good luck!

None of what I have said is my sons version, apart from what he said about furniture arrangements - can't access wardrobe to hang up work shirts as her craft stuff in the way for example.
Everything else I have had first hand from her or my son when she is present, or from the few texts from her eg yesterday.
Which bit is his version, are you thinking? I am inclined to think you have either not read whole thread or picked up the wrong end of stick

I think it's a great idea to buy your son a cheap PAYG phone with a small amount of credit on. Keep the lines of communication open with your son, but don't give any more money. Very best of luck to you

It sounds like you are doing the right thing. Hope things turn around

are you mixing up ESA and JSA
No I am not missing up JSA and ESA.

There are two 2 types of ESA, which are contribution-based ESA (CESA)and income-related ESA (IESA).

Basically if have paid enough NI you can get CESA otherwise if you are on a low income (joint with your partner) you can claim IESA.

Obviously this is a very simplified account of a very complex benefit (the DWP's own guidance runs to over 200 pages) and there are some exceptions to the main rules but I am definitely not getting confused.

My son had a very manipulative GF a few years ago who persuaded him that she was incapable of working (bad back) and who would then spend weeks on hols with her mates partying - dancing, drinking etc - funded by him!
I wish I had been more direct with him at the time and said what I really felt but I was always wary of being the mum who automatically takes their children's part. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
OP - you sound very reasonable and it is understandable to want to help but advice from most PPs is wise - stop enabling, tough though that is!

First of all, you sound like a lovely mum who cares about her son a great deal. Your son sounds like he's being a bit of a doormat in honesty, but no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. I'd offer them meals at yours, or meet him for lunch etc but I wouldn't give them a penny especially for her pets!! Make it clear you love him and your door is always open. But until he sees her for what she is, you are talking to a brick wall. He must love something about her to still be there after 2 1/2 years.

ESA can be for MH as well if it is severe enough for her not to work, as hers appears to although given how she sounds, I'm not sure how bad she actually is, she could be putting it on or making out it is worse than it is.

There are 2 types of ESA, contribution based and income based. You can only get contribution based if you have paid enough NI in the past. Income based is based on household income. If your sons job is that poorly paid that they cannot buy food, then she could well be entitled to income based. PIP isn't means tested at all. But she would need a diagnosis and doctors or health professional reports. They wouldn't give it to her just because the filled in the form. They can be very hard to get. She doesn't even want to try though does she, which I can't understand when it could make them better off. Sounds like she would rather leech off her bf, mum and you. I'd tell your son he is free to come over for something to eat anytime he wants but the money stops now. There are other ways for her to get money, she just doesn't want to and why should that be your problem.

If your sons job is that poorly paid that they cannot buy food
The OP states that her son works hard at NMW.

So assuming 35 hours * £6.70 = £234.50.

That would put them well over the threshold for IESA.

Can you phone / text a mobile when it's run out of credit?
Yes I think a PAYG mobile usually remains connected to the network for a year after the credit runs out.

This almost sounds like my DB and his girlfriend (right down to the rats!). My mum has bailed them out for years, despite theft, drugs etc. If you were to listen to my brother it's all her fault, but in reality they both have mental health issues which they refuse to seek help for. Have you considered this for your son OP? Their life sounds extremely dysfunctional and this is a concern; could drugs be involved? The phone most likely was sold and for this reason I'd be wary of giving them cash which may not be spent on the food/electricity they claim to need. We now only give DB food/top up his key for him if he says he's in a pickle. It's a fine line between enabling them and not leaving them to sink completely.

No, no, NO! You are not being the teeniest bit unreasonable to quit funding a semi-stranger's lifestyle. Your son chooses to stay with her - that's HIS choice.He can get by on MW like everyone else who manages it .. it'd be nice if he could get a better paid job, but it's his life. You did your bit bringing him up, and I'm sure from reading your post that if his GF wasn't so rude and he was on his own, you'd have no problems with helping out financially.

If his GF has mental health problems, it's truly sad that she won't get help, but again - it's not your problem: if he truly loves her, it's his - but if he's staying just because of that, he's actually denying her a chance to hit rock bottom enough to seek help. (Talking from a standpoint of a person who herself has MH problems being bi-polar.)

Tell your son you love him, but the financial aid is stopping until either his GF gets the help he/she feels that she needs and/or becomes more of a friend than a stranger to you. Though I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.

The one thing I'd point out that you're maybe wrong about though - if she does have MH issues, she may actually be incapable of doing the housework etc. that's upsetting you. Depression and other MH conditions can be totally crippling - I strongly suggest if he's going to stay with her, that you buy some books on depression and find out how appalling this invisible condition can be. It can also mean you just can't handle money - no concentration for one thing, and during "highs" if you're bi-polar,spending without ever being able to see the consequences til you're back down again and it hits you like a ton of bricks.

OP - Depending on where you live and how much they pay in rent it may or may not be worthwhile putting in a claim for Housing Benefit / LHA.
It sounds like they could benefit from a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau for an advisor to do a full calculation for them.

I agree with a PP that if the genders were reversed then there may be different concerns raised. That communication seems to go through the GF, the isolation from his family and that he has fears of leaving (due to risks to her wellbeing) are concerning and are potential indicators of controlling behaviour. May have got it completely wrong but my first impression from the post was questions as to whether there was some emotional abuse going on.

I think you've been fair and very strong.

I hope things start improving.

OP you can get a rolling month-by-month capped contract from Tesco for £7.50 a month. No data, just 5000 texts and 250 minutes I think. You could buy a simple text/call only phone for a tenner and give to your son, then he would be contactable. To get next months calls, he must be contactable. If he is not, you don't pay. You only have to have the contract for 2 months initially I think, and can be cancelled by removing your Direct Debit, no further charges. It works out more economical than a PAYG phone.

Fanny - How much is the initial outlay for a phone on a deal like you have just described because it sounds perfect for someone I know.

Giffgaff do one for a fiver (and they get additional minutes for every minute that someone calls them) you'd need an unlocked phone though

you'd need an unlocked phone though
I thought that might be the case but Fanny's deal sounded pretty good too depending on the initial price of the phone.

Yes I have read the thread and Winterisherejohn cites a similar case to the one I have in mind.

From an outsiders point of view the solution is clear, stop giving them money. Take your son food shopping if he needs food or buy gas and electric but don't give them a penny. They both sound extremely ungrateful