to think this is sexual harassment not "an equal opportunities issue"?

[SwissWank]

If I am expecting a vulva and in a private room am met with a penis...

I don't have to touch your penis, surely?

www.buzzfeed.com/lanesainty/trans-woman-brazilian-wax?utm_term=.wn9yL7dKK#.aoLOxVqZZ

This salon could go out of business from the bad reviews and publicity surrounding this. What a total wanker

"Bottom surgery" I believe refers to the "bottom end of the torso" rather than the arse, as top surgery refers to breast augmentation at the top end of the torso...if that makes sense.

yes, literally a wanker is what this person is!

world has gone fucking mad. first Trump might be president, then Pokemon Go and now this. we are one step away from a Red Dwarf alternate universe

shit, parallel universe.......parallell, alternate who cares anymore :(

If a man who had identified as a man had whipped a towel off his penis the therapist could quite rightly have called the police.

I am so sick of this idea that a woman must accept seeing a penis because to do so would otherwise impinge on the I guys of the owner of said penis. What the fuck happened to a woman's right not to be visually assaulted by unwanted cock?!

Re-reading it, who the fuck gets their bits waxed as a birthday gift to themselves?

Idiotic BUT I'm torn. My friend is male. He was born female and has transitioned and had hormones, breasts remove etc. I was astounded when I found out he was born female as I didn't know him before and he is a man. But he has female genitals - the op to create a penis is difficult and not always successful and so he has decided not to have it
If he went in to have a back/crack wax, and removed his bottom half he would be showing female genitalia... Hmmmm. I can't vocalise this very well!

The more shit that happens the more I think 2016 has been written and produced by David Lynch.

Look, I agree that Karen shouldn't have taken it any further. But I think it's so crazy to call her a pervert who wanted "their cock felt up", it seems so out of sync with a lot of other opinions on here. I couldn't not comment.

I can see how the confusion arose, I think the salon could have done more, I think there was no claim for compensation. I don't think anyone was a pervert. I don't think anyone had any expectation that an unwilling woman should have to touch their cock. I don't think they would even have an interest in that, I find it a completely crazy assertion.

Am I really the only person here who thinks this was misguided but not perverted? I'm surprised.

Whispering - i feel visually assaulted by WANTED cock

I have sympathy for the poor woman who was essentially flashed at. Especially as the salon doesn't offer 'intimate' waxing for men. I would have been really perturbed if it were me.

Ah, biology as fact.
That's the sort of thing feminists have had quite a lot to say about (e.g. when it was claimed that women were biologically inferior to men).

In my view, feminist philosophy of science has offered a lot of helpful challenges to this approach, and I'm not sure it's in our interests to argue that biology is 'fact' without quite a few qualifications.
(For example: plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-epistemology/)

I can't help thinking there needs to be more nuance to most discussions about trans activism.

Japanese im not sure perversion inspired this ill fated birthday surprise.......more like trouble causing money grabbing fame seeking attention whoring good old fashioned compo chasing.

Japanese

I don't know. I don't necessarily agree that this was about an assault. But I think what irks women is the arrogance.

And given that the way she has reacted, I don't think it's a giant leap to imagine that she thinks her rights trump other people's

Gah

I think what's coming over here (Jeez there is so much scope for double entendre) is potentially how ridiculous male netters are

nethers, not netters. Aargh

My friend is male. He was born female and has transitioned and had hormones, breasts remove etc. I was astounded when I found out he was born female as I didn't know him before and he is a man. But he has female genitals - the op to create a penis is difficult and not always successful and so he has decided not to have it
If he went in to have a back/crack wax, and removed his bottom half he would be showing female genitalia... Hmmmm. I can't vocalise this very well!

It's simple He has female genitalia, so he asks for the Salon to do the female hair removal procedure on his bits.

Why ask for the 'male' procedure purely to be difficult and to prove a point?

I'm saying it's not different from 'perversion' - it's not different from being flashed at which is a crime.

The beautician had no expectation of seeing cock so I think she was flashed at.

I feel angry at that thought. That the whole article is about 'Karens' humiliation and not the therapist who was flashed at. The victim of the crime isn't named.

Hollinhurst
Your friend would need to go to a place that does both male and female waxing. But also be completely clear and honest with the therapist before treatment.

If the salon had asked Karen if they had male genitalia they would have probably said no.
Because Karen will think they have a female penis

Why didn't the transwoman phone up and say ''I need my bollocks waxed. Do you wax bollocks?
No?
Thank you. Bye''

Then toddles off to find a place that specializes in waxing male body parts.
Job Done.

But no, she wanted to be offended.
Silly Woman. might as well get the negative bits as well
It's not all high heels and frocks.

The more shit that happens the more I think 2016 has been written

This, a thousand times over.

...by David Lynch

i did snort at that, vair good

It's totally not clear. There are no rules.

i know pre op trans, and post op trans. There are indeed no rules.

and, of course, it's none of anyone's business what stage of op transitioning someone is at until someone has to deal with their genitals. Frankly, the salon should have probably asked, but equally, the person should have told.