DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

[EmmelineW]

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

[JackieAndHyde4eva]

I think the penis analogy only works if the boys would be wearing white semi-translucent trousers...

And if breasts were genitals.

[Stratter5]

Who was that gardener on that Alan Titchmarsh programme years ago who didn't wear a bra? I'm pretty sure the world didn't stop because of that.

[milpool]

If you can see her breasts through her school shirt then ask the school whether they'd have an issue seeing a boy's nipples through his shirt.

And as for "needing" a bra, what nonsense. Haven't studies shown that if you've never worn one your ligaments etc tend to stay quite tight anyway? It's if you start wearing a bra they can get "lazy" and used to being supported, so if you then go to not wearing one you notice the difference not.

[milpool]

*difference more, even

[FreedomIsInPeril]

To all those saying she shouldn't have to wear a bra, would you be ok about a woman going bra less in your DH's place of work?

Why would I have an opinion on the breasts of women in my husbands work place, specifically? Why would they be any different to ones opinions on such things anywhere else?

[Fairylea]

I find the whole "big boobs are painful without a bra" interesting because I am large of boobage and personally there is nothing more uncomfortable than wearing a bra. Yes even a well fitting one via bravissimo or mumsnet bra intervention. I hate them all and when I'm at home it's a luxury to be able to freeboob.

I don't think she should have to wear a bra if she doesn't want to.

[Cutecat78]

Good ole Mumsnet.

The school don't want a load of teenage boys (or girls) being distracted from their work by being massively turned on and raging hard ons because they are teenagers and struggle to regulate hormones and sexual feelings - this doesn't mean they would act upon them!!

[StatisticallyChallenged]

I couldn't give a monkeys if a woman went about braless in my DH's place of work. I would care if their top was see through and so you could physically see breasts but I think see through clothing is inappropriate on either sex and would probably advise DH not to wear a top which was see through either

If transparency is the issue then some sort of plain vest top underneath would resolve that without her compromising her own values.

I would probably encourage one for sport but only because if she is busty it will get painful- trust me!

I love bras and would never not wear them.

[greatbigwho]

Also, my secondary school shirts weren't see through in the slightest.

[EllyMayClampett]

If she finds bras uncomfortable perhaps a vest underneath, a crop top, or a camisole? Also, if it is about comfort, perhaps taking her to a department store that will do a bra fitting to make sure she finds a version that fits well and is comfortable?

It sounds like part of the problem is that she has broadcast the fact that she isn't wearing one, so it has become and issue that cannot be ignored for the staff.

[JackieAndHyde4eva]

would that still be acceptable to those who say broadcasting she isn't wearing a bra is fine?

No one has said that broadcasting that she isnt wearing a bra is fine.

[Helenluvsrob]

Doesn't she just need a vest?

[Bobochic]

Cultural norms dictate that female breasts should not be on overt display in most places of work. That's life.

[StatisticallyChallenged]

FairyLea I'd generally agree but bare boobed sport is a whole different thing to normal life. I once tried to do star jumps braless...yeaowch.

[FreedomIsInPeril]

I know that DH would find this very embarrassing and it would make him feel uncomfortable

Your DH would feel uncomfortable if his female collegues didn't wear bras? What the fuck is wrong with him? Why would he be looking?
And no, his feelings don't matter.

[mzS1990]

Not wearing a bra seems very lazy.... Like if you don't wear a bra- what else don't do you?

[LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF]

Are we sure this isn't a Daily Fail post? Sounds the sort of thing they'd love. 'Teenage girl suspended from school for refusing to wear a bra'. She's naughty, AND she's got her tits out. Cue salivating middle-aged male journos......

[bloodyteenagers]

To all those saying she shouldn't have to wear a bra, would you be ok about a woman going bra less in your DH's place of work

Well I don't have a Dh/dp but still why would I be bothered? If he would be the type to drool over any breasts I would question if I wanted to be in a relationship with someone so immature.

[JackieAndHyde4eva]

I know that DH would find this very embarrassing and it would make him feel uncomfortable.

but that doesnt matter does it

No because female bodies dont exist for the comfort of males.

[FreedomIsInPeril]

Obviously I am talking about a woman that you could tell was without bra! FS

So? WHY would this make him uncomfortable? Again, what is wrong with him?

[zoobeedoo]

Cutecat - agreed. What I tried to say but in teacher talk...

[tidyfairy]

It must be obvious that she's not wearing a bra, otherwise it wouldn't have come to anyone's notice. I think in a mixed school setting that's inappropriate. My dd is considerably older than 14, but you wouldn't know if she's wearing a bra or not because she is a very slender A cup. It would only be if her nipples were obvious that anyone might notice.
Call me old fashioned, but I am of the opinion that the school has to keep order in the classes and parents should try and support teachers in this. And if it was two years ago that it was considered time to start wearing a bra, then there has likely been more development since then.
I really don't understand why this is worth the digging in of heels when a soft comfortable crop top would solve everybody's problem.

[toadgirl]

I was a very late developer and didn't need a bra until I was around 15! Nowadays, you can get really good teen bras, even if you don't have much to put in them. I think I started wearing a vest sort of thing before that for modesty though. I was incredibly shy

I'm surprised the school are involved, though, that's a bit weird. It's the kind of problem time will take care of.

She will either:-

(1) physically need one in time and feel the discomfort without.
(2) become more self-conscious about being the only girl without one.
(3) carry on neither needing nor wanting one - if she has the confidence to go against the grain, more power to her.

Undergarments can't really be a uniform, can they, so I don't see how it matters. If you want to encourage her though, take her shopping for something really nice - she may get the bug for buying stuff!