DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

[EmmelineW]

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

[PunkrockerGirl]

Yet another thread.
Ffs.
It's like in adulthood. Attention-seek all you like, but don't whine or run to mummy when people comment or have an opinion on your choices.
A 14 year old is old enough to know that actions/choices have consequences. The teenage boys are almost certainly not as interested in the dd's lack of underwear as many posters would love to believe but she shouldn't be surprised if staff are concerned for her comfort and well being.

[smallfox2002]

I certainly don't think teenage boys have no control, and we certainly can teach them what is appropriate.

[Flashbangandgone]

The teenage boys are almost certainly not as interested in the dd's lack of underwear as many posters would love to believe

I think you are very wrong I'm afraid.... Teenage boys will be particularly, if not excessively, interested in such a thing! You may wish it weren't so, or that the girl in question shouldn't care, but teenage boys will be interested.

[Floggingmolly]

Have you met many teenage boys, Punk?

[smallfox2002]

I do agree with the posters above, they will talk about it, especially if she is vocal about it.

Still no reason to ban the child from school though

[YellowJellyBeanz]

I've thought long and hard about this thread. I'm usually the first to say, "she should wear clothes as she feels fit and comfortable", " but I can't help but think that if her boobs are ever so slightly visible she is leaving herself vulnerable. From a young age my girls were taught to cover up their private areas as they are private and belong to them . The uniform clearly isn't opaque and the child is clearly not flat chested hence the noise being made from the school. I do however feel that excluding her is the wrong way to deal with her. Why should she be excluded for making what they determine to be a "bad" choice. There are other ways of dealing with the situation, but in my experience schools play little attention to the individual needs of the child.....

As for boys... I have a son and I can confirm that he and his bunch of friends would be very interested in a girl flashing a bit of flesh from the forbidden area. Only last week my son told me how they could see through his teachers button hole and the colour of the teachers bra. Him and his friends found it hysterical.... I feel this child should accept the the school short is not thick enough to go without wearing an undergarments and go bra less when out of school....

[smallfox2002]

I do think we need to educate boys and girls better. In my teaching career I've dealt with all sorts of body shaming, from girls being mocked because they had "bee stings" or "pancakes" from both boys or girls, to being bullied and catcalled for being overly blessed in the bosom area too. We've cracked down on any body shaming in the last decade or so, so its now rarer, or rarer that it comes to light.

[OhGodWhatTheHellNow]

Never mind the teenage boys... At that age I changed school, first PE lesson I stripped for showers as we did in my previous school to be met with a wall of horrified faces, all doing some variant on the Top Trick! I was known as Ohgod the stripper for months

And had to learn the bloody Trick and how to shower in a towel, because of Conformity.

However the unexpected bizzarre prudishness helped me get away with not wearing a bra until my mid twenties.

[PunkrockerGirl]

Yes thanks, Molly
I have 2 of my own, now in their early 20's
And whilst I don't think they or their male peers were saints, equally I know that their female peers weren't exactly angels.
But in my experience, it's only on mn that teenage boys are considered to be uncontrolled potential sexual predators who are a threat to our precious, innocent teenage girls.
In the real world, however .......

[smallfox2002]

Oh totally agree Punk, I read somewhere that it was time that we stopped thinking of teenage girls as sweet innocent little dolls.

I mean come on, all of us here remember what either we or our friends got up to, and according to my DC that was in the dark ages!

[Flashbangandgone]

But in my experience, it's only on mn that teenage boys are considered to be uncontrolled potential sexual predators who are a threat to our precious, innocent teenage girls.

It's a surely a false dichotomy that teenagers boys are either uncontrolled sexual predators or not especially disinterested in a bra-less and busty classmate..... Most teenaged boys aren't predatory of course, but that doesn't stop them being lustful and horny, and acutely interested in the lack of a bra.

[CanadianMum2]

What do the boys wear under their uniform shirts?

[VestalVirgin]

It might be hard to live with your daughter’s decision, if you are unable to convince her to wear a bra. Try to find comfort in knowing that this decision, like almost all of her 16-year-old decisions, will change. This stage, like many others, is only temporary

Ha! I'm 30 and still braless. And it won't change unless my breasts sag so much that sweat gathers under them and makes me uncomfortable, you know?

Comfortable being the important word here. You know what not wearing a bra tells people about a woman? That she likes to be comfortable.


Also, unrelated to your post, but: how often do I have to repeat it: bra is NOT THE ONLY UNDERWEAR A GIRL CAN WEAR! Stop accusing a teen girl of exhibitionism! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE HERE?!

[BalloonSlayer]

But in my experience, it's only on mn that teenage boys are considered to be uncontrolled potential sexual predators who are a threat to our precious, innocent teenage girls.

Yes I agree but I would also say it's only on MN that teenage boys exist who don't bat an eyelid at a pair of breasts.

The OP doesn't say how noticeable the bralessness is. But it is noticeable enough for the PE teacher and HOY to notice.

Sadly, I think if the OP heard the comments most of the teenage boys are likely to be making about her DD, she would want to vomit. Teenage boys can be foul in a pack.

And it's these comments that the HOY is trying to protect her DD from. Of course what the HOY should be doing is hauling every boy in question into their office, giving out a lecture on sexual harrassment and issuing appropriate sanctions for their inappropriate behaviour. But we are talking about hundreds of boys here.

[TheClaws]

Well put BalloonSlayer. I'd say the teachers are trying to help the OP's daughter out here, not squash her equal rights as a young woman. I'd take the hint gladly and find a solution - for PE at the very least - that works for her. Good luck OP.

[Flashbangandgone]

Also, unrelated to your post, but: how often do I have to repeat it: bra is NOT THE ONLY UNDERWEAR A GIRL CAN WEAR!

If she was wearing another type of underwear, I'm pretty sure the school wouldn't have an issue.

[RhodaBull]

her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately

As Claws says, it sounds as if the school is not being unkind, dictatorial or discriminatory, just concerned for OP's dd. Plus the "role model' enquiry.

I wish a teacher from this school could appear on this thread to give the other side of the story.

As usual people are entrenched in their viewpoints - some think the dd is a feminist icon blazing a trail, some think she is Lolita taking advantage of poor slobbering teenage boys, and others think she's just an attention-seeking madam.

[RhodaBull]

Plus it's a stupid point when people say you should wear whatever you're comfortable in and it's other people who have a problem. Is it ok to go around with head uncovered in a Muslim country? Boob tube in Mediterranean church? Man shirtless in Tesco? Hot pink outfit at sober funeral?

No one is suggesting the OP's dd goes round trussed up like a chicken in one of those Miss Mary of Sweden corsets they sold in the back of the Grattan catalogue. As we all have said, JUST GET A VEST!!!!!!!

[differentnameforthis]

Rhoda...I have seen men shirtless in all sorts of places. This isn't comparable, as op's dd IS NOT shirtless. She doesn't need a vest because she is wearing a shirt. She isn't exposing herself, getting her tits out, leaving herself vulnerable or any of the other stupis and/or nasty suggestions on here.

[flupcake]

Different - the point Rhoda was making is that there are different clothes for different situations. Certain clothes are seen as 'appropriate'.

Fortunately in our country no-one can force you to wear 'appropriate' clothes, and you can of course go against the grain, as long as you are aware that others may judge you for it. Might not be ideal, and I am not saying it is right, but that is the way our society is. I will defend anyone's right to look different.
I guess it depends if you are happy for your teenager to be judged, and how the difference will be perceived. It's not nice, but that's how it is. Maybe in 100 years time our society will be more relaxed about the body but its unlikely to happen in the next 10 years.

[NeedAnotherGlass]

Sadly, I think if the OP heard the comments most of the teenage boys are likely to be making about her DD, she would want to vomit.
Some, not most.
But are you suggesting that all the girls who wear bras don't find themselves on the receiving end of the same kind of comments from those boys?
That if she just wore a bra, she would protect herself from comments?
If so, I'd love to know where to get one of these magical bras from that protects girls from vulgar comments.

[GladAllOver]

As usual people are entrenched in their viewpoints - some think the dd is a feminist icon blazing a trail, some think she is Lolita taking advantage of poor slobbering teenage boys, and others think she's just an attention-seeking madam.

And some of us think all those extremes are wrong and she simply prefers not to wear a bra because she's more comfortable without.

As someone who rarely wears a bra I understand exactly how she feels.
Is that just too simple for someone to understand?

[GladAllOver]

As we all have said, JUST GET A VEST!!!!!!!

Not all, by any means. Why should she have to wear a vest under her uniform in hot weather, or under sports gear for sweaty activities?

Just leave the girl alone to decide her own underwear.

[GladAllOver]

Plus it's a stupid point when people say you should wear whatever you're comfortable in and it's other people who have a problem. Is it ok to go around with head uncovered in a Muslim country? Boob tube in Mediterranean church? Man shirtless in Tesco? Hot pink outfit at sober funeral?

All completely irrelevant. She is wearing the correct school uniform, the same as everyone else. What she wears underneath it is a no-one else's business.

[ShelaghTurner]

Just leave the girl alone to decide her own underwear.

That's it. That's all that needs to be said. A person's underwear is no ones business but their own.