to suspect that this DH is living like a guest in his own home?

[Madinche1sea]

So this morning at breakfast, while DH was "ordering" his particular- style of protein omelette (😐), DD (aged 7) looked at him and said,

"Daddy do you think you're a guest in this house or something?"

Her comment got me thinking, but AIBU to think that DH could, in fact, be making his own breakfast (or dinner or doing anything else housework-related for that matter)?

We have 4 DC under 12 so the mornings are fairly full-on and I tend to need to be super-organised to get everyone out. We have 4 kids in 3 different schools. I should start by saying that I'm SAHM and since our youngest started school last Sept, can get some time to myself in the day now. DH works very long hours and travels a fair bit which is why I'm fine to do most of the house-related stuff. However....

DH does not cook AT ALL. On top of this, he is always involved in some kind of training schedule for some ridiculous event (like running 100 miles in the Sahara or something like this), so is usually on some particular diet which I am expected to cater for. I don't think he's ever ironed anything - I take his shirts/ suits to the dry-cleaners or iron his other stuff, but he never passes comment about how things appear ready to wear in his wardrobe.

I do have a cleaner who comes in twice a week and, to be fair to DH, he always tells me to get her in more so I can take more time for myself. But I don't bother because most of the mess is in the evenings once the kids are in anyway.

If not overseas with work, DH goes to his boxing club one night a week. He plays rugby on Sundays usually, plus goes on early morning runs most days. I don't mind any of this as he has a very stressful job and needs to unwind, but it does make family life more hectic - particularly with morning routines and all the stuff the kids do on weekends.

He usually comes in about 8 ish to "put the kids to bed" ie. joke about with them, cuddles etc once I have actually got them in the beds and everything else is done! Then we will have dinner together. He will usually do a few more hours work after this while I'm clearing up, sorting out kids school clothes and stuff for the next day. We go to bed about 11-12 usually.

I do have to say he is generally very thoughtful and lovely - for instance, he insists on taking me on "date-nights" at least every other week which he organises and books the babysitter for. He is actually better than me at prioritising our relationship and I appreciate this as it can be difficult with 4 kids.

Sometimes though, I feel as if he is living in a parallel universe, with no idea about the logistics of 4 kids, homework, after school clubs, shopping and general life skills. AIBI?

Bring it back to basics, if you have a domestic set-up that you are happy with, that's absolutely fine. If you have a domestic set-up that works for one partner but not the other, then you have a problem, no matter how pleasant it looks to outsiders.

Do you want to work? What would be your ideal scenario? Is he willing to negotiate with you so that you both have more of what you want/need? If he is not willing to discuss and just closes down the discussion, then there is something off about your relationship.

Rather than your daughter being rude I think she's picking up that her dad doesn't do the daily grind.

Your husband doesn't want you to work because the children will suffer, but is it rely because he will lose out because you won't have as much time?

I don't think YABU to feel this way. AND you need to understand a bit better his work

However---it baffles me that any WOHM that travels and works long hours would then spend most of their free time going hobbies.

Its very often men, and I see this with some colleagues. Like they have a done a 2 week trip, and then they go and have some hcill time. I would have thought they'd want to see their kids.

Its so Victorian!

i get it. my DH is more successful than I could ever be, and would be happy for me to SAH. And actually, my dc are suffering a bit from me working ft (can't do what I do pt). It comes down to what you want if money isn't a binding constraint. If you can do what you do in school hours, is that part of a successful life to you? Would you be more fulfilled? Would you feel your DC respected you more? Only you can answer that question. Or would it be too much juggling - school age DC still need support and if you're frazzled all the time it won't happen well. My mum stayed at home, never got back to anything, no pressure to money-wise, the dc benefited but I don't think she feels she fulfilled all her ambitions.

I think your DD is spot on that something is wrong. She sees her dad being waited on when he is at home and from her perspective work/rugby/running are also all things he wants to do and chooses to do rather than be with the family. Is she realising that in fact she and the rest of this family are some way down his priority list?

OP isn't asking for sympathy though CattDamon. She isn't saying her life is rubbish or terribly hard. She's saying her DH doesn't do his fair share. Different complaint altogether.

I don't think she is even saying that he doesn't do his fair share. I think she is saying that she is uncomfortable with how radically different her and her husband's lives are. Both are affluent, comfortable, the husband is as prepared to throw money at what they have defined as his wife's responsibilities (house, food, admin, children) as his own. But the fact remains that they are living radically different lives. Hers involves lots of mundane work, no outside approbation/thanks other than from her husband. His involves a world where all of the mundane tasks are taken care of my someone else and he probably gets loads of outside approbation/thanks through his work.

OP, I'd be interested in your husband's reaction to your dd's comment. If one of my children told my husband that he was like a guest in his own house, he'd be upset and would want to talk to her about it. My own husband works what sounds like a very similar job to yours. Very highly paid, lots of travel, lots of last minute commitments. we have a good amount of outside help (cleaning/gardening/dogwalking etc). He still manages to help put the dinner on the table if needed, clean up, supervise homework, be involved in the kids sporting stuff, do the school run if needed. The division in your lives seems huge and it may not be the healthiest model for your children or even what you need right now.

wrt to your daughter, it occurs to me that your daughter sees you doing the drudge work all the time - she doesn't see daddy's work, so her perspective isn't accurate, it's been my experience that you don't get paid a lot of money for an easy life. I reckon it's more likely that he'll outsource more domestic stuff if you work than he would pick up the slack - that's not necessarily the end of the world, you're still a very committed parent.

I agree with doin as well although read very fast so may have missed some of the nuance.

I'm guessing on some level OP does want more or she wouldn't have posted. All the stuff about "he's provided XYZ level of lifestyle" is just incorrect. They've both provided it - him through paid work and her through total sacrifice of work to the needs of the family.

I wouldn't be at all happy with the set up where I am totally a service provider to the other adult in the family. I always say this on these threads but at my age you start to see women regret leaving the world of work as illness, redundancy, even death in the family take their toll on traditional families. This tends to make people reassess the value they would place on financial independence.

As for "not allowed" to work....well, that would have me sending out CVs as fast as I could get them in the envelopes.

Doinit, I never once said that the OP should be grateful to make an omelette. I said she should be clear as to whether she wants to do this or NOT. There's no point being all acquiescent about doing it and then complaining.

Your comprehension is flawed and your opinions about my position (of which you know absolutely nothing), are obnoxious and unfounded.

Have we time warped back into the 1850s or something? Ordering an omelette at breakfast? He should be making his own fucking omelette! To say your 7yo is pointing this out speaks volumes. When do you get your break other than the few hours you have now that all DC are in school? Up til now, you haven't had that free time. You've bloody earned it.

I agree with heading off for a weekend and telling him that he's responsible for the kids. Also, if you want to go back to work, do that.

He sounds great tbh. Yes, he does his sports and has that down time. As you said yourself tho, you also get down time.

If he dosent have a clue about the kids and you don't have a clue about how hard/stressful his job is. You are even. As long as you both appreciate each other and are supportive that's all that matters.

He does seem to work hard and long hours like you said but is still a caring, kind and considerate husband and father so I can't see any reason for complaint.

On the surface it sounds great, but it's clear that it's very much on his terms. It's apparent that he is unlikely to be able to change much about his working hours, but if you're able to find a job which can be accommodated within school ours or with use of after -school club then that should be a decision that you get a say in too.

Fwiw, our family is in a similar position. I went back to work after being a Sahp because I wanted some independence, and the money does make a difference to household income. We both have the kinds of jobs where we need to work once the children are in bed, and DH has to travel a lot for work.. However, DH sorts his own breakfast, we both make it for the children, he cooks roughly half the dinners when he's home, we clear up together, we try to do family activities at the weekends when we can, he fits his hobby in at the weekend around our other plans -this is all just to point out that it's possible for a parent to have a busy job with travel and still participate in family life.

Yes you're right Canyouforgive. She is worried that DH has effectively "outsourced" all domestic duties and most childrearing, and doesn't see them as part of his life or part of his responsibility. Not healthy.

MunchCrunch the problem with that is that there's a lot of domestic stuff that can't be outsourced. You can't easily hire someone else to go to the nativity play, go to parents' evening, take DCs to friends' parties, listen to them read, talk to them about friendship issues, choose the family holiday, do the online food shop, make breakfast for the family, take DC to the doctor, deal with paperwork, etc.

so what does dh do with the kids on the weekend? fun stuff sporty stuff hanging in the park stuff?

maybe dd sees him as a house guest who demands breakfast rather than an active parent?

Okay just read all your comments. If you find a job during school hours he won't suffer.

As a child psychologist could you not set up independently.

i agree to that mini, i meant he would outsource what he could and Op would still have the rest. It seems that Op's mostly talking about getting a school hours job, a full-time stressful workload with 4 DC and a DH who does long hours and travel sounds like it'd swing in to the everyone frazzled and doing badly side of things, I can't see that it's feasible to do that sort of a switch without huge lifestyle changes.

if you're able to find a job which can be accommodated within school ours or with use of after -school club then that should be a decision that you get a say in too.

Um, as an actual person in her own right, she gets the absolute say on what she does with her own time and her own life.

It is not her responsibility to make sure this man can take zero responsibility for his own children.

If she gets a job, then that is her choice.

It's up to him to figure out how and whether it's possible to be as flexible as he prefers without a lower status spouse to do all the parenting and skivvying.

I don't think it's that he doesn't see domestic duties and childrearing as part of his life/responsibility, rather that his view of how to meet those responsibilities is to earn a lot of money so that those jobs can be taken care of by others, whether that's his wife or someone they employ. I suspect he thinks that he is doing the very best he can for his wife by giving her a comfortable life, even if it turns out he's wrong in his assumption.

If the OP isn't happy with the arrangement then a really good discussion is needed with both of them putting their pov forward and then reaching a mutually acceptable agreement.

Yes, agree with you Munch that OP getting a job will just make everyone's life harder as DH is not going to pick up any chores to compensate.

cest on Sundays DH plays rugby. Without the DCs. Not clear what he does on Saturdays after ordering his omelette.

Your life seems ideal to some & not to others.

To me, if you have the money to buy in help for cleaning, ironing, whatever else & you want to, to make your life more pleasant, then why not?

If you have agreed to the more traditional roles in your relationship & you are both happy then 'mostly' why not?

However, the point at which this turns into your DH treating you like a short order chef & general dogsbody, then he's over stepped the line.

I don't think your DD was rude at all. She was making an observation and if your 7 year old has noticed, it's got to be pretty bloody obvious as they're still at that age where you do so much for them that they don't see.

I get he's not home much, I get that you (jointly) have the money & to buy in help to make your lives easier (and he's happy to do that), but there is 'stuff' that needs doing there & then that he could & should do. Clear up after a meal, load the dishwasher, wash anything that won't go in it, make his/the kids/your breakfast (especially at the weekend when you have time for his faffing), bath the kids, help with homework, take them to clubs & sports fixtures. Family life - he can't buy his way out of it IF he wants to be Dad & husband and not a 'guest' in his own home & life.

I can see why he prefers you to be at home when he can afford to support your family, it does make everyone's life easier and it is nice that you can be there for all of the kids school stuff, illnesses etc. I get it and yes, the kids do 'suffer' if you both work full time - but that's also a 'learning opportunity' in life. That we can't always have someone there at sports day, that sometimes we have to be places we'd rather not be (after school care instead of at home for example).

However, this is YOUR life. He can have his opinion, but that's what it is, his opinion. If you want to work, then you do that. Given he's away so much (and I'm a realist - somewhat selfish with his spare time when he is there) and money isn't a big issue, I'd go ahead and do what you want, organising childcare as you would if you were a single parent. If he doesn't like it, he is free to make some sacrifices in his leisure time to look after the children himself. You have a) a right to personal satisfaction & b) the right to your own career. With the divorce rate as it is, I actually think it's somewhat worrying not to. It's easier to reestablish your career now rather than in another 15 years when he decides the kids are grown you should work or leaves you for someone else. I'm not in anyway saying he will, but it often happens so it's pretty silly not to at least consider that.

Quite Doin.

I occasionally have to remind DH that the default position is that he is 50% responsible for the children and the only reason he is able to work his long hours job is because I have agreed to take on 80% of the domestic stuff. And I can revoke this agreement at any time (on reasonable notice of course) and go back to 50/50, should I wish to step up my working hours. Him being the primary earner and me the primary carer is an agreed arrangement, not a "given".

I am at some of the responses on here telling the OP to suck it up

She's had 12 years of childcare and until she wrote this post, had one-four children under 12 permanently in her care. That is a fucking huge job and inestimable to someone who spends most of their time out of the house.

On top of that she is cooking meals for her DH (to his personal requirements, not just what's in the cupboard that morning) and cleaning and ironing his clothes. That is a bloody dedicated person and I think he needs to understand how much she does.

op where will you be in 12 years time?

still serving his eggs?

what will his relationship with the dc be like ?

Everybody seems to be missing the point, that he spends virtually no time with his children! That is what should be the concern. He is not a great father, when he has free time he spends it on his hobbys, not with the kids.

Thinking about what your daughter said, maybe she is picking up on the fact that her father does his own thing (extreme sports, etc) a lot, without the children being involved.
She wants him to be more hands-on as a dad and do things with him. I think he knows this deep down because he suggested that if you go out to work, the children would suffer.