to suspect that this DH is living like a guest in his own home?

[Madinche1sea]

So this morning at breakfast, while DH was "ordering" his particular- style of protein omelette (😐), DD (aged 7) looked at him and said,

"Daddy do you think you're a guest in this house or something?"

Her comment got me thinking, but AIBU to think that DH could, in fact, be making his own breakfast (or dinner or doing anything else housework-related for that matter)?

We have 4 DC under 12 so the mornings are fairly full-on and I tend to need to be super-organised to get everyone out. We have 4 kids in 3 different schools. I should start by saying that I'm SAHM and since our youngest started school last Sept, can get some time to myself in the day now. DH works very long hours and travels a fair bit which is why I'm fine to do most of the house-related stuff. However....

DH does not cook AT ALL. On top of this, he is always involved in some kind of training schedule for some ridiculous event (like running 100 miles in the Sahara or something like this), so is usually on some particular diet which I am expected to cater for. I don't think he's ever ironed anything - I take his shirts/ suits to the dry-cleaners or iron his other stuff, but he never passes comment about how things appear ready to wear in his wardrobe.

I do have a cleaner who comes in twice a week and, to be fair to DH, he always tells me to get her in more so I can take more time for myself. But I don't bother because most of the mess is in the evenings once the kids are in anyway.

If not overseas with work, DH goes to his boxing club one night a week. He plays rugby on Sundays usually, plus goes on early morning runs most days. I don't mind any of this as he has a very stressful job and needs to unwind, but it does make family life more hectic - particularly with morning routines and all the stuff the kids do on weekends.

He usually comes in about 8 ish to "put the kids to bed" ie. joke about with them, cuddles etc once I have actually got them in the beds and everything else is done! Then we will have dinner together. He will usually do a few more hours work after this while I'm clearing up, sorting out kids school clothes and stuff for the next day. We go to bed about 11-12 usually.

I do have to say he is generally very thoughtful and lovely - for instance, he insists on taking me on "date-nights" at least every other week which he organises and books the babysitter for. He is actually better than me at prioritising our relationship and I appreciate this as it can be difficult with 4 kids.

Sometimes though, I feel as if he is living in a parallel universe, with no idea about the logistics of 4 kids, homework, after school clubs, shopping and general life skills. AIBI?

He sounds a bit like Don Draper circa 1962.

Whilst it's fair that you do the lion's share at home, I think that he could do a bit more within the household in order to set a good example, rather than seeing his free time as grownup time. I'm wondering how you coped when you had two or three children at home, cleaner or no cleaner.

I suspect his concern for the children is just a front for the fact that if you worked he would have to do far more housework and childcare. Nothing wrong with the way you have things arranged currently if you are both happy, but clearly you are not.

Regardless of how many hours he works, i think he needs to think a bit about what his kids will learn about men's roles vs women's roles if they see their father putting in his breakfast orders and their mother cooking it.

MyMurphy and Cestlavie and many others said what I wanted to.

When does he take the time to be a father to his children? When is he planning to?

If he is home at the DCs' bedtime, then that should be his operation to plan and execute.

When children are in school, they need to be transformed from generators of mess to avoiders and/or active picker-uppers. The OP should not have to spend an hour or so in the evening clearing up mess created by her school age children. So just as a parent, I would work on that. Or get the DH to wrangle them into picking up and putting away their stuff and supervising their lunch preparation - tell me the oldest at least make their own lunches for school?

Hi OP

I stopped reading some most of the posts telling you to suck it up.

I too have four children under 12, had a successful professional career before I stopped to have my fourth child, have a DH who has a very senior role, travels extensively often for a week or so at a time, and also does extreme challenges (e.g. he's going to Europe to do an Ironman competition next weekend). I think the difference between us is that if he wants to eat different food because he's training - HE sorts that out himself. He also empties the dishwasher every morning, does most of the bedtime stuff at the weekends, cooks most Sundays, and is generally really helpful - so I don't feel resentful of the fact that I do almost everything else.

The other thing is that I do other things - I ride, I play tennis, I volunteer at a local Hospice, (and do the inevitable PTA/reading in school stuff) so I have a few things that are for me, not for my children or my husband. And as a quid pro quo for the Ironman weekend, I was going to go on a riding holiday with a friend of mine - and he would have taken on all of the childcare for 3 days, so he's really good at pulling his weight when he's at home.

I stopped working after my fourth child because I didn't feel that I was doing anything very well - it was far easier working FT with a nanny to do my 'job' but the children were suffering, and I was permanently stressed. I am fully supported by DH being at home, but if I did want to go back to work he would support that too - perhaps you feel that your DH wouldn't and that is causing a bit of resentment.

It is exhausting juggling four children, their school stuff, after school clubs, orthodontist/dentist/doctors, school trips etc etc - (and we also have a dog) - albeit a bit easier now that they are all in school - but at the weekends we both need to have a break from our 'work' - although in our house, there are very few 'free' weekends with swimming, tennis, riding, rugby, parties etc etc etc....but we both share the load at the weekends. Perhaps you need to talk to him about there being a bit more weight on your side of the 'time off' scales at a weekend?!

What job does he do? I've been a PA to some pretty high fliers and I can tell you now that it is pretty full on at the top. Some of the guys I have worked for are on back to back conf calls/meetings/travelling. It is utterly relentless. I think most people would struggle with that type of schedule. If I was one of them I'd certainly want a stay at home wife.

Hollers for OP as have a Q

Very specifically, what was your DH doing when he 'placed his breakfast order'?

As in, he was obviously IN the kitchen when did - or else DD wouldn't have been able to ask him the Q she did - so was he sat at the table 'waiting' for his food OR was he doing stuff (loading dishwasher/cleaning his shoes/ssorting his briefcase/packing a DC's bag/any other family or work task)?

I too would like to know how much time he spends with the kids. He sounds obsessed with his sports and as though he hardly spends any time with you all as a family.

Lady that is what I wanted to know too.

Has he time to do it himself or not.

I am a SAHM but Dh does cook on weekends because he loves cooking and he has time to do it then. He also packs the dishwasher every night.

He gets himself breakfast and brings me a cup of tea in bed as he gets up before me and the children.

So it depends if your DH is just lazy or busy.

Ok - waiting for DS to come out of cricket with 2 others in car, but will try and respond.

Many of you have taken the time to give some very thoughtful feedback. Thankyou.

So many varied viewpoints - so its a bit overwhelming to be honest.

My gut feeling is that going back to work would just be the straw that breaks the camel's back for our family. I think DH is right tbh. It's not feasible for him to scale things back at work as he employs a lot of people etc. So I guess it is what it is.

I was quite shocked when someone said he's abusive. He would never even raise his voice at me to be honest and actually he's very calm when he's at home. He doesn't bring work stress home with him and I don't put anything extra on him either as I don't think it would be fair.

He is clear though that he doesn't want nannies etc bringing up his kids and I feel the same. So many people do this round here, but it's not for us. I would like to work though if I'm honest - for myself, but also because people can be very judgemental about the kind of life I lead otherwise. But, the kids will always come first.

He does what he can with the kids when he's here - eg. on Saturdays he runs a kick-boxing club which the DS' go to with their various friends from school and he drives them all over the place for competitions etc. Someone said rightly, that it's more the mundane stuff he doesn't get and that's true because he has never done it. But there are many aspects of his job that are crap too -so again, not complaining!

Will be back on later!

Oh shit

I was coming on to ask if your husband was Don Draper but some bugger beat me to it

OP don't not work because you think it's better for the kids - the research says kids of working mums do better. So if you want to work for you, work for you.

Who is this Dan Draper? I am Spanish!

And yes LadyStoic , he does just sit there waiting for food - maybe this is not normal I admit!

Gtg but will be back on later. Thanks.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/24/having-a-working-mother-works-for-daughters

Nobody said he was abusive.

I just said that people who thought it was normal to order your wife to make your breakfast were probably in abusive relationships.

Clearly neither you nor your daughter think it's normal, which is a relief.

Given that he isn't prepared to raise his children himself, why is it up to him to force you to do it?

It sounds like he's picked himself a woman who will allow herself to come second to him and his progeny, as men like him are wont to do.

Encourage your daughter in her spirited response to her sexist upbringing.

Hopefully her children will be be raised by both parents and she will not be a lower status spouse.

I think it sounds like he does at least half the work, so that would be OK by me as long as you each appreciate the other.

Why does he sit there waiting for food?

Why isn't he doing something useful while you prepare his omelette - or cooking his own omelette?

I understand that he works long hours and can't do domestic stuff during those hours. It is fair that he has "time off" (which he chooses to spend doing sports) just as you have "time off" while DC are in school though I suspect it was very unfair before DC were in school.

But I don't see how it is fair that you are doing breakfast while he does nothing. And I expect that is not the only time that you are doing jobs while he does nothing.

Have not rtft. But I think the husband is out of line with the extra-curriculars. If you have a demanding job like that (personally I would never countenance being in a relationship with someone who prioritised their career to this extent) then at the very fucking least you devote the rest of the time to family life. Not necessarily chores (sounds like you're earning enough to outsource a lot more, and if your DH wants to do this but you don't I think that you can't complain he doesn't do more) but at least just spending time with the family. I couldn't live like that.

Also, if you/your DH won't countenance childcare, I'm not sure how you could go back to work?

Maybe if you took a little break, visit relatives, go on a Spa weekend, he will understand the logistics more. Take up a hobby so he has to be more involved with the children for a few hours. You have found yourself in a role that you had no say over, now you need to get a bit of time for yourself.

Are you Miriam Clegg?

My dh travels a lot more and works much longer hours and I work part time. We have a nanny for the days I work. She doesn't bring them up. I do. She cares for them but in reality I am missing out on three hours of their day three days a week - less when they have after school clubs.

It would be totally feasible for you to work and it not bring chaos on your house.

I totally agree with AntiBoop
It is perfectly feasible for you to work-my friend is a child psychologist who has 4 school age children. She works part time and has a childminder to do school pick-ups and after school care. She is only missing about 3 hours per day with them, and she doesn't work every week day, 3 days a week is what she does. Perfectly doable and no DCs suffering as far as I am aware 😀 just think about it. Why should you give up the chance to do a job you love and are well qualified for?

But the whole problem is - that this set up really works from a practical point of view! If one partner can give their all to their job then they can really maximise financial gain! I think if both of us had been working for the past 10 years then we'd be comfortable, but neither of us would have had the mega success that he has had if we had been working 9-5 at the most and doing school pick ups. And if one partner has full responsibility for the children and doesn't work, then they can give some serious quality time to the children.

The only problem is that it's usually the woman forced into the domestic role by cultural noms (and a little bit of biology as they are the ones actually physically attached to babies at the beginning), so often there is no genuine choice. When we reach the point that there is as much pressure on men to stay home and look after their children as there is on women then we might have some equality.

Is this about self-fulfilment? Do you want to do more interesting stuff? Or do you just want some appreciation in the form of someone doing the dishwasher sometimes?

It works but there are other options - like I said. I don't have to work but I like getting out of the house. As I can afford a nanny it takes a lot of the pressure off. Dh has more of a career and is extremely successful but I'm happy with my career.

I also know couples where both have high flying careers. The set up varies but the most successful ones are where each parent is equal in terms of taking time off for concerts etc

The key thing is it is doable if you are both supportive of each other.