to suspect that this DH is living like a guest in his own home?

[Madinche1sea]

So this morning at breakfast, while DH was "ordering" his particular- style of protein omelette (😐), DD (aged 7) looked at him and said,

"Daddy do you think you're a guest in this house or something?"

Her comment got me thinking, but AIBU to think that DH could, in fact, be making his own breakfast (or dinner or doing anything else housework-related for that matter)?

We have 4 DC under 12 so the mornings are fairly full-on and I tend to need to be super-organised to get everyone out. We have 4 kids in 3 different schools. I should start by saying that I'm SAHM and since our youngest started school last Sept, can get some time to myself in the day now. DH works very long hours and travels a fair bit which is why I'm fine to do most of the house-related stuff. However....

DH does not cook AT ALL. On top of this, he is always involved in some kind of training schedule for some ridiculous event (like running 100 miles in the Sahara or something like this), so is usually on some particular diet which I am expected to cater for. I don't think he's ever ironed anything - I take his shirts/ suits to the dry-cleaners or iron his other stuff, but he never passes comment about how things appear ready to wear in his wardrobe.

I do have a cleaner who comes in twice a week and, to be fair to DH, he always tells me to get her in more so I can take more time for myself. But I don't bother because most of the mess is in the evenings once the kids are in anyway.

If not overseas with work, DH goes to his boxing club one night a week. He plays rugby on Sundays usually, plus goes on early morning runs most days. I don't mind any of this as he has a very stressful job and needs to unwind, but it does make family life more hectic - particularly with morning routines and all the stuff the kids do on weekends.

He usually comes in about 8 ish to "put the kids to bed" ie. joke about with them, cuddles etc once I have actually got them in the beds and everything else is done! Then we will have dinner together. He will usually do a few more hours work after this while I'm clearing up, sorting out kids school clothes and stuff for the next day. We go to bed about 11-12 usually.

I do have to say he is generally very thoughtful and lovely - for instance, he insists on taking me on "date-nights" at least every other week which he organises and books the babysitter for. He is actually better than me at prioritising our relationship and I appreciate this as it can be difficult with 4 kids.

Sometimes though, I feel as if he is living in a parallel universe, with no idea about the logistics of 4 kids, homework, after school clubs, shopping and general life skills. AIBI?

Thinking about your own needs and desires is not selfish. I think you do need to work outside the home to make you feel part of the outside world. Good luck

If your DH's business is so dependent on him that it would collapse if he said "Sod it all", then it's a badly run business. He should have set it up so that it will run just fine if he gets run over by the proverbial bus tomorrow. If he had done that, he would be in an ideal position to arrange to be around more for his children.

It seems to me irrelevant that what you would earn would be peanuts compared to what he earns. You have a very valuable qualification - the waiting periods for access to child psychology services are scandalous - and you clearly have a good brain to be able to achieve that qualification. Why waste it? You are very right to worry where you will be at age 50 when the children don't need you so much.

I took 18 months off work when DS1 was born: he was PFB and so far as I was concerned no-one else could possibly look after him properly. However, during that time I lost a great deal of self-respect. DH unconsciously did start treating me as a skivvy, because to him it made sense that I should be the one dealing with all the home stuff and he was supporting me. I ended up taking a couple of very part time jobs purely because housework bored me witless. Ultimately financial need drove me back to work, and the changes in DH's attitude to helping out at home and my levels of self respect were very noticeable.

Thankyou so much for these very kind and constructive comments. Also apologies If I was sounding a bit on the defensive last night. DH is away and a friend had been over with a bottle of wine . Though I was feeling quite defensive reading some of the comments, if I'm honest.

Cocoa its a great suggestion to look into courses to update my skills. I'm sure things have changed immeasurably in 13 years. I already have a Master's qualification and it does seem crazy not to make any use of this.

I know this all probably sounds crazy and very self-indulgent to most people. It's not the case that so need DH's permission for things on a day to day basis - quite the opposite actually. I know I am my own person, but it's just a tricky area and I would not want to feel like I would be going against him either, if that makes sense?

It is not self-indulgent - change is scary and you are the one initiating it here. But change is also necessary to grow.

I do know someone who works as a psychologist with child refugees - there is massive need, as Judy says, in many areas. I also think if you are stronger in knowing what you want to do, and looking for opportunities and creating a plan, it will become more self-evident that it is the right thing for you (and your family). Just start from the premise that this is now the time to initiate change and that is not something to feel apologetic for, but excited about.

As well as looking into courses, I would think about how you can - in small ways to start with - start blurring the quite strongly separate roles that you currently have. So, in the mornings, if you're dealing with one child and the other asks you to do something, try saying to them "oh, I'm busy with this, can you go and ask your dad to help you?" It sounds like he loves his children very much - even though he's not that involved day to day - so he would help.

FWIW, since you're been feeling a bit defensive, it also sounds like he loves you very much too - but that he's a very strong personality and has to be that way at work and perhaps that crosses over into his home life as well.

why not start exploring options for you OP? I can see that having 2 parents working full throttle would be very tricky, but have a look at what the potential is. as there is no popint even discussing it until you have some options

I am sure he is a good man, but he has clearly got very acclimatised to a certain scenario, and you are completely within your rights to think about the future, and some development for you professionally. there is more to life that fucking money and the FTSE 1000, and your work might not earn as much, but it could affect positive change

slowly slowly, catchy monkey!

OP, I can't believe the responses you received on the first page, but I suppose the fuller picture wasn't visible then.

I haven't read the last few pages (sorry) but I think you sound great, I also felt a bit sad that you were so apologetic for "moaning" - you have every right to feel a bit uncomfortable with your situation.

A course sounds like a great idea. You have loads to offer the world!

OP, has your DH ever looked after the DCs on his own for a weekend/overnight?

Cocoa - that's interesting about your friend working with refugees as that's exactly what I used to do "in my other life"

Notin and Japanese - you are very kind
thankyou.

Stop - you are right and next time I go into "negotiations", I will be armed with the facts hopefully as to the commitment actually required etc. He would not mind me doing a course though so maybe that's a good precursor if all else fails!

Locating - well, he has taken the three older ones camping quite a lot. He's better if he's out and about doing something with them than being in the house. I don't think I've left them all for the weekend, although he has had them overnight on his own more recently. They just eat out. It's easier now than when they were all little, that's for sure.

HI op - just skim read this thread. quite a shift from BU to NBU after a page or two.
I had to post just to ask one question really - why should you feel it is any kind of a big deal to talk to your DH about your returning to work. Why do you feel that you need to pick the right moment and go in armed with the facts, etc?
I have to tell you that for anyone else, this kind of conversation would just be like any other - e.g.. where shall we go on holiday or what car should we get next.
I find the fact that you are having to tread so carefully about this quite worrying to be honest. What did he actually say when he "closed you down last time and why should you feel worried at all about a perfectly reasonable discussion?
Your DH may be lots of things but he has no right to feel as though he owns you.
Please think about this.

I think you might be pleasantly surprised by DH's view if you bring up further study or a part time job.

A lot depends on if you bring it up as a positive thing or a problem.

If it sounds doom and gloom with a lot of issues to be dealt with eg DCs being collected from school I would think his response might be negative but if it is a great thing which you are really enthused about his response might be the opposite.
Our attitudes are influenced by our DHs but also our DPs and upbringing, I don't know what yours was like. If you think no man is going to be happy with this arrangement then that is prob how it will turn out. If it is a new and exciting phase in your family's life then prob everyone will go along with that enthusiastically.

You've got a great end of the deal here so yabu. I am the breadwinner and dh is a sahp and works one day a week outside the home. I do at least half the cleaning, we rotate bed times and I cook alternate days. When do goes to school in September I expect dh to find more paid work or take on the majority of housework.

limon, OP is doing ALL the housework, not the majority - and her DH wants her to continue in that role and not find outside work - how is that a great deal? (I am not commenting on your situation, it sounds more equitable).

I work FT outside the home as a single parent. I think the DH here has a great deal! But he also misses out a lot on real family life, and his kids, and partnership with the OP, so that comes at a cost (to both of them, but at the moment, mostly to OP).

Do you actually get a holiday op? I worry about 'lucky' sahms sometimes that they never get any time off. Evenings, weekends etc. always food to prepare, caring for dc etc. It's not like a 9- 5 job which goes into suspended animation on a Friday evening and starts again on Monday morning.

Hi - DH out for a run, so will try and respond.

Ashanti - not sure how to answer you. When I have previously spoken with him about me returning to work, this is a flavour of his responses -

Why would you need another job? You're already doing the most important job in the world.
It's not fair on the DC. Do you really want them coming home to some random woman?
The kids still need you. DS1 and 2 might not have got into School if you hadn't been on the case. You need to do the same for DD1 and 2 or it's not fair.
You had 4 babies in 8 years, take some time for yourself now.
Do you care more about what other people think, or what I think and the children need?
Do you know how much I love you? Everything I've ever done is for you and the kids.
Are you not happy about something - what can I do?
No I'm not saying you're not allowed to do anything - but you've heard my view haven't you.

He can be quite intense and full on. The thing is we actually don't argue on a to day basis because we don't tread on each other's toes. We never bicker over house- related stuff or money and we have a similar approach to parenting, so it's all fine. But on this subject, he makes me feel as if I'm insulting him and the children by even bringing it up and this is why it's difficult.

Do you care more about what other people think, or what I think and the children need?

Other people, him, the children.

All important.

You don't appear to even exist as a person in your own right.

All of his arguments erase you as a person.

You are just something he owns.

He loves you like a pet.

Hi DoInIt - he's not like this about anything else though. Most of the time he's lovely and would support me in anything.

You had 4 babies in 8 years, take some time for yourself now

I find this interesting. He's urging you to take time for yourself- but wouldn't regard work as part of that. But work might be your time for yourself. Many people derive huge satisfaction from their jobs.

Also, your DH is saying take time for yourself, and PPs have said you have lots of time for yourself as a SAHM to school aged kids, but your time to yourself is restricted to 9.30-2.30 Mon- Fri. That's fine if you want to spend lots of time reading novels and going to the gym. But if you want to play a team sport/join a choir/meet up with friends who work, then time off in school hours isn't very helpful. You have lots of 'Me' time, but is it the 'me' time you want/need?

I've just read Viv Albertine's memoir. A lot of things to chime with this thread, definitely worth reading.

Here is the gilded cage in musical form: . She is incredible!

That sounds suffocating because it is framing your own ambitions as somehow letting him and DC down. It is a subtle form of control, because it is emotionally manipulative.

It is also insulting because it implies you would not pay the same attention and care to the right childcare as you have done for 12 years. It would not be 'some random woman'. And OF COURSE you care about their needs - seriously, I am getting annoyed on your behalf. You are the one who is there ALL THE TIME.

Does he love you? As a whole, autonomous woman? It is not just about how much he loves you. And in fact nothing to do with that

Of course it is only about this issue. This is the one issue which gives you a life outside his realm of control. This is the only issue which actually matters, to be honest.

Sorry if I sound harsh, I am writing on my phone on the hoof, never a good idea, but I am writing from a place of compassion for you.

If what you are doing is the "most important job in the world" he needs to answer the question why he isn't doing it. Because it must be more important than his job, right?

Do you have a skill? can you make things or offer a service of some sort and set up your own little cottage industry? I know it's not for everyone but it is so easy now to set up a small etsy/eBay/folksy type shop. It would mean you can work from home but still have something for you and it can be as big or little as you wish.
Just an idea, it might not be something your interested in and in which case doing a course or maybe volunteering part time could be a great option?

My Dh works long hours during the week and I'm a sahm. We've got three kids between 7 and 3. The 3 and 6 year old both have autism ranging from moderate to severe. My dh occasionally washes up and wants a medal for hoovering. He's been home since Friday and I "jokingly" mentioned he could do the tiny ironing pile before holiday and he's basically said no. I wash, iron and cook for the kids. I gave up work because my middle dd couldn't handle nursery so something had to give and school have basically said she it wouldn't be good for her to go into childcare. I have three mornings a week free and my husband refuses a cleaner. I'm physically and mentally knackered. He thinks me asking him to clean one small bathroom every now and again is unreasonable. Can I have your life please?!

George. I know you mean well, but why didn't you read the thread, or at the very least the OP's comments, before posting? I don't understand why people do this.

He doesn't want you to get a job. No matter how he makes it sound with all his reasons how if will affect the kids (and him!) he is basically saying no.