DD is starting school in September, but isn't toilet trained.

[BarkingMad12]

Hi. Not sure what to do. DD isn't toilet trained yet, we haven't rushed it at all and did wait until she showed signs, but she never did so we have slowly started trying more and more but it isn't going great. I'm worried as she's closer and closer to going to school.

Do I tell them? If so, when? Also, is she allowed to go? Even though she isn't trained? Advice would be great

how has this huge advantage played out?

not entirely sure how being able to read at 2 demonstrates intelligence.

hope i'm getting the 'quoting' thing right...

zzzzz - i don;t think there's a physical reason he isn't getting it. he can if he wants, the only issue is sometimes he realises with seconds to spare so if you aren't watching him like a hawk, 9 times out of ten he has an accident. he did do a gino-turd this evening after i'd nagged him for a bit, largely at his own instigation. we had a fantstic weekend with just one accident last weekend then all week at creche and at his nanna's he soiled himslef about three times a day. he's been on movicol as he was previously witholding but i think it's gone a little the other way now. which is beyond grim

captainproton other than the weekend i can't think when he could run about naked, he's at creche full time. and i've just started a new job so cant take any time off until the very end of august. plus its hardly been the weather for it this year bribes do not work one jot, i say 'do you want to do xyz, if so you need to do your poos on the toilet' and he's all 'yes yes mummy' and it lasts about half a day.

i ilked what the nurse on here said about it being just a delay like ny other. if someone said my child is starting reception and their sppech is poor, I doubt people would say its ridiculous a child of 4 cant talk, you must be a lazy mother, its up to you to buckle down and make them etc.

the only slight glimmer of hope is because he's adopted he'll get pupil premium at school, and if they can use that to help him, i'll be very happy

captainproton

Don't buy or understand the links on reading to toileting at all. Toileting is something that most children will be starting to do or be ready for around 2 or 3. That's the trigger. It's a physical, developmental readiness usually within that age range. Obviously there are exceptions. It's not really 'taught', it's assisting the child in accessing that developmental physical ability.

A child is not suddenly ready at 2 to read. Most children won't actually have the physical ability to properly pronounce all of the phonic sounds until around 4. Trying to teach them earlier is front loading for no good reason. And a lot of parents teach reading in a way which is different to how it is taught in school (ie by sight, not phonics) or teach phonics badly. That work then has to be undone and redone. What a waste of time for everyone

• zzzz has admitted there is little benefit long term for a child who has allegedly learn to read at 2, so only a loss of childhood freedom. Who would want that for their child?

Nothing else to add other than I 100% agree with zzzzz children can only acheive what they are ready too.
I also have a unusual child who has developed in his own way.

In my house one minute we are practicing knife and work type skills using therapy putty following an OT programme and the next he's solving linear equations

His cack handedness with knife and fork has nothing to do with not being taught at usual age people seem to think it should be done but because he has fine motor co ordination dysfunction.

Some parents definition of reading is very different from mine or a reception/other teacher.

I was once chatting to mums waiting for my child to come out of an activity. One parent was saying she was asking potential schools what they could do for her gifted and talented child as she was worried they wouldn't meet his demanding needs. We all asked how he was gifted. She said he had taught himself to read at age 3. I gently probed this statement, and after a lot of drip feeding discovered that a) she had bought the jolly phonics book, CD and worksheets and b) taken her child through them herself, rather than him teaching himself anything, and c) when demonstrating to us that he could really read now he was four, he failed to read the simple sentence in a children's book which she presented him with. I felt so sorry for her, to be so insecure that she had to latch onto this crazy gifted thing, but even more sorry for the child, who had obviously had his childhood marred by early reading lessons and a feeling of failure because he didn't pass a public test.

Let them be kids, let them play. Stop interfering.

Before someone says it, the same principle doesn't apply to ordinary toilet training. If you home school and the strain is yours then go for it, but if a teacher had 30 such children in their class the education system would be fucked. As such, social convention dictates you have to make an effort to get your child trained. Just like you have to make an effort to ensure they can put their shoes on, do up their buttons, etc.

Feel for those who have tried so hard and feel they are failing. I am still there too to a certain extent, but that's very different from not actually having a real good go and expecting school to do it for you. They shouldn't and they won't.

Dixie - have you not heard of the modern hot housing trend? You're lucky, it's bloody rife.

I know this thread has gone beyond the OP's question. Fair enough, it's been interesting and the OP is long gone anyway. However the reading thing is a complete red herring. Some things come easily to one child, others easier to another. Reading came more easily than continence to DD. The important things, surely, are that children who struggle with whatever aspect are treated kindly and respectfully, and given help. And parents who make some of the sorts of comments on this thread (nappies are for babies, all "NT" childen should be trained yada yada) are part of the reason that children like mine can be treated less than kindly by their peers.

Toilet training can be a single event in a child's life that's done in a week, or it can go on for years, or anything in between. Many of us who have spent years on it have also successfully trained other children much more easily. It's not massively helpful for people who've done it in a week to assume the rest of us are doing it wrong or aren't bothering at all. If only someone had suggested a sticker chart to me 7 years ago... oh no wait, we tried that.

zzzzz and hazeyjane, thank you both for your articulate posts.

I am just letting da 4 go with the flow, and allowing him the freedom to be a 4 year old, parks, getting dirty muddy, playing with friends, picnics. Some of his peers at nursery are able to read and write, that will come. I have tried a bit but he's just not interested so will not force him, I tried to force dd and be pushy but it did not work.

Exactly Dixie - you are lucky! It's not everyone by any stretch but there is a lot of comparing about levels/ability etc, home schooling after school to make sure your kids keeps up with X and Y, home tutoring, kumon maths groups, etc. One parent came up to my child and asked her outright, in front of me but directed at her, what reading level she was on, and when the answer was apparently higher than her own daughter, said her own daughter would have to work hard to catch up! It all happened in about 15 seconds and I was open mouthed in shock and just stood there are they walked off. I was literally speechless.

It's all the lovely free play that these kids are missing which is my issue, its just so sad.

what is reading

Is that an existential question randomer? If so I'll get stuck in

We were told it's a small school and kids need to be toilet trained. An accident is to be expected I suppose but sending a kid to school in a nappy would not be tolerated.

And if they did happen were told the parent would be called to change a nappy if necessary. It is not a teachers job in a mainstream school to change a nappy.

Op, your little one is very young to start school, an option may be to delay her starting for a term or two until she is toilet trained and a bit older?

The important things, surely, are that children who struggle with whatever aspect are treated kindly and respectfully, and given help. And parents who make some of the sorts of comments on this thread (nappies are for babies, all "NT" childen should be trained yada yada) are part of the reason that children like mine can be treated less than kindly by their peers.

Thankyou for this, Obelisk.