AIBU or is this normal these days?

[SultanOfPing]

I don't know if i'm completely out of touch, or if DH's ex and kids are completely taking the piss, so a couple of honest views would be appreciated... Basically, DH's ex wife has always been a bit 'grabby'. For the two boys, she gets about £150 more than the csa recommend - in total, close to £1200 a month for the pair of them. The £150 is made up of extra for clothes and dinner money. The two boys are 14 and 16, and the eldest is all set to go on to do A levels in September. A few weeks ago, he started hinting about new stuff for school. He asked for a leather jacket, boots, tshirts and jeans...we agreed on the jacket (it's not a cheap one that he's picked!) and two pairs of jeans. Anyway, the ex sent DH a text a couple of days ago...she's putting £500 of her own money (she doesn't work, so basically DH's/our money that we give her for the boys) towards clothes, footwear and books and expects us to match it. We have two young children of our own and, well, we just can't afford it. We rent a five bed house so the boys can have their own rooms, even though they only visit for a weekend every three weeks and half of school holidays. Anyway, as expected, DH's ex has gone mental. How DH is a bad parent, that he doesn't care, how he has no idea how hard it is for her (she actually left him for another bloke after carrying on behind his back for nearly two years and took the kids 300 miles away [and does nothing to help with visits]) and how he's going to alienate his boys if he's not careful. DH is stressing about it all because he's worried that he won't see his sons because they'll turn against him. Me? I wanna punch the bitch in the throat. Are teenagers really this expensive? Is this a normal demand for a 16yr old kid? We also give them pocket money that goes straight into their bank accounts, which they do nothing for (they don't help out in the kitchen or walk the dogs when they come up to stay, for example) and he has no intention of using any of that for his new wardrobe or books. This isn't the first time that she's asked for more money, and we always pay half (at least) towards uniforms and footwear - we also buy them everyday clothes, usually a couple of tshirts or a hoodie when i'm buying clothes for our two (2 & 4, so grow out of things quickly!). Are we being unreasonable by telling the boys' mum that we can't afford it (we'd have to get stuff on a credit card) or is it normal to fork out this much money? My friends all tell me that we do more than enough already but, well, they're my mates so possibly a bit biased?

Yes, it makes sense in the short term 44 - and possibly in the long term if you stay together.

Starts to retrospectively not look such a good idea the lower earner after divorce though. Head over to the Relationships board for just one day and you'll see examples.

Cabrinha in this case , with 300 miles between them, how could they do 50/50?
School, the boys social life etc? Can't really work if split in two homes and the travelling.

And, she threatened to take them abroad so maybe the 300 miles was a workable compromise?

The dropping of hours for Nursery pick up. Sometimes it's just not feasible for one or other to change hours , or commuting distance might make it impossible.
I changed my work hours to start earlier and finish earlier because I drive. DH couldn't guarentee the buses would get him there on time.

USED1234 wrong thread?

Thank you for the support (mostly) - although I realise that there are kids who get a lot more, the majority don't and that £500 from each parent is a bit steep (fwiw, the younger son doesn't give a toss and is quite happy with what he gets [thankfully]). With regards to the negative comments about DH though, he had to move out of the family home because the boyfriend was staying every weekend. EW said that she couldn't afford to live there if he didn't pay the rent though, so would go live with her parents (boyfriend was up for moving too). Therefore, DH paid so that he could see the boys regularly. I dropped an hour a day because DH's job isn't very flexible - lots of meetings, time-critical stuff and a 5.30 finish with extra work in the evenings is pretty much the norm. And, again, we can afford four children, but not four children and his ex! We coped very, very well for the five years before our two came along, which is why we had no qualms about starting a family ourselves. It's only now that it's become a problem because she's asking for a lot of money in one go and I don't think it's a reasonable amount - we will also have to pay at least half towards the younger son's new uniform etc in September. As for Uni? We have spoken about this, and we will help but not fund completely. I also don't expect eldest SS to get a job, but helping around the house when they visit would be appreciated - I was always told that pocket money was earned, not just given. Anyway, I now feel better about saying that our contribution will need to be re-negotiated - and that he can have the leather jacket for Christmas! I just hope that the boys don't follow their mum's lead and refuse to visit as this will really hurt their Dad.

Sounds horrendous that her boyfriend was staying over whilst he was there! And understandable that short term he would pay the rent to stop her moving abroad to parents.
But she stayed in the family home initially then - not 300 miles away.

So it doesn't explain why he didn't spend that time when they were all living locally securing 50/50 care - and why he didn't go to court to prevent her moving his children a totally unworkable 300 miles away.

Yes, she is very greedy and of course you are angry but having a 5 bed house so each child can have their own bedroom despite 2 of them rarely being there?? Why would you do that?

Cabrinha - ex made it known from day one that full custody would be hers. If DH wanted 50/50 then he'd have to fight for it. That would have meant going to court and, cost aside, he didn't want to put the boys through that - they were only young at the time. As for having their own rooms, they shared when we had a smaller home, then things started kicking off as they got older about them sharing. We got a three bed but then the shit really hit the fan when we found out I was pregnant. Boys refused to come down, mum just refused to change their minds...yes, I know we could've gone to court about that too, but again it would've meant the kids being subjected to a legal battle. We have suggested downsizing but it just stirs up too much nastiness.

Having been through this and out the other side of a very similar situation, I would stay well out of this. It never ends well.

We live in a consumerist, materialistic world. Many young people have grown up with a sense of entitlement which was never around when I was growing up. Just because your SS's have asked for the most expensive items, doesn't mean they should get them. There will be alternatives.

If I was your DH I wouldn't directly give this money to the ex but take the boys out shopping himself and buy them the things directly. It will be a great bonding exercise and make them appreciate how much things actually cost. That way he will also know that the money has been spent on what it was meant for.

It doesn't normally cost £500 for a new school wardrobe.

The problem is that up to now your h has allowed his ex and his sons enjoy a certain standard of living. If they are wearing £50 jeans at say 10 years old then £90 jeans at 15 years old from the same brand doesn't seem unreasonable to the child and ex. I'm guessing that you're aware of what brands your stepsons wear. You should be able to google prices and work out how many items of clothing £500 buys.

What I'm trying to say is that your husband has created this situation but agreeing to any demands made by his ex. I can understand that it angers you as your children lose out financially. My ex pays more than CSA too but I think he sees it as paying me for childcare as he sees the children so infrequently as they don't get on with his gf.

I'm a single parent and my similarly aged son has to slum it in Next jeans at under £30 a pop. It's all I can afford. His indulgence is shoes. He knows that if he wants a pair of shoes then I'm happy for him to try it in a real shop but I'll have to order it online to shave some money off the total.

DH has suggested this in the past, and it's never gone done well (ie. Not happened). Because of the sum involved though, and the preciseness of the eldest's list, he's suggested it again. We won't be spending £500 though and the jacket will be a Christmas present!

Eyebrows - yep, DH is well aware that giving in has just created the current situation. He's done it so that he can continue to see his sons though. He's too soft and his ex is, ummm, unreasonable?

I'm assuming that your h caved if he suggested it but it didn't go down well. Of course it wouldn't go down well at first but if it's a question of waiting a few days to get the item or not getting it at all then most kids will grudgingly accept it.
Personally I would hand over what I could afford (£200 or whatever) then offer the jacket as a Xmas pressie if he still wants it then. You can't give what you don't have and getting into debt for this demand is just setting yourself for more unreasonable demands in future.

So apsolutly everything is the ex's fault and your poor DH has not contributed in any way to the current situation.

That sounds Delusional

Rights and wrongs of the financial situation aside, am I the only one who thinks wearing an expensive leather jacket to school is asking for it to be borrowed stolen ?

I'm curious about the fashion. My 15 year old will only wear a coat when it's snowing and it's a North Face style coat which is the fashion round here.

Needs...have I accidentally outed myself?

Eyebrows - that's true of the youngest! It's a biker jacket, so more of a sort of statement.

I feel you OP. DP's ex wife receives £2,000 a month for 1 child and lives in a mortgage free house. DP also pays for private school fees and was expected last year to match contribution for a Christmas present. DP also pays for child's phone bill (plus buying the iPhone 6 for him in the first place).

DP hates not coughing up the money for his son (even though it impacts materially on our lives and we have to make sacrifices for his DS and ex wife) because he feels ex wife will cut off contact between them or bad-mouth him behind his back. It's a sad situation that I can't see any positive in I'm afraid.

I can empathise

Tiny - crikey, 2k!? I do hope EW isn't on here, she might get ideas! DH has a good relationship with the boys and our two adore them - they're the only positives to come out of it all, I think? As for what her friends think, they live so far away that that thankfully doesn't matter.

Yup sultan! That's why London is seen as the Divorce Capital of The World... the courts here tend to favour the financially weaker spouse. Which is fine and fair in most circumstances, expect for the fact that some women (and men!) really take the piss

Roll on their 18th birthdays!! At least we can then just deal with the kids directly - one thing that DH did not give up on was the financial order - csa to their mum stops when boys turn 18 if not in school, or at the start of uni that year. I know women who are completely fair about everything but, like you said, the system is open to those that just want to take their ex's for whatever they can.

She's having a laugh!!! She needs to get a job and start showing her two (possibly rather spoilt) young men that it's good to work for what you get....after all when they leave full time education she'll have an awful lot less to spend as the 'child support' won't be there

The csa usually take into account how much your husband will be earning and what the ex will be earning. I expect she knows that if she gets a job she will get less money off your husband. That is why she isn't getting a job. We've been through all this with csa. As soon as my OH's youngest from his previous marriage hit 18 the ex wife got a job and moved in with partner. She knew that if she moved in with her partner (who she cheated with on my oh before I met him) that he is a good earner and her maintenance would stop. The csa also took a chunk of my wages!

No, if I were your husband I would call my son and explain that he already provides a lot and does not have the spare cash.

No Sultan but the likelyhood of any situation like this involving two adults being the sole responsibility of only one party is slim to none.

Your DH made choices that impacted on the way he progressed with things to do with contact and finances unless you are attempting to suggest he is a helpless bumbling person wih some type of learning issue then he played a part in it no matter how much you wish to negate that by making excuses

not the none paying parents income is totally irrelevant with a CSA/CMS assesment they do not even ask for the info nor obtain it from any source.

The only bit of income info they are interested in is the paying parents.