AIBU or is this normal these days?

[SultanOfPing]

I don't know if i'm completely out of touch, or if DH's ex and kids are completely taking the piss, so a couple of honest views would be appreciated... Basically, DH's ex wife has always been a bit 'grabby'. For the two boys, she gets about £150 more than the csa recommend - in total, close to £1200 a month for the pair of them. The £150 is made up of extra for clothes and dinner money. The two boys are 14 and 16, and the eldest is all set to go on to do A levels in September. A few weeks ago, he started hinting about new stuff for school. He asked for a leather jacket, boots, tshirts and jeans...we agreed on the jacket (it's not a cheap one that he's picked!) and two pairs of jeans. Anyway, the ex sent DH a text a couple of days ago...she's putting £500 of her own money (she doesn't work, so basically DH's/our money that we give her for the boys) towards clothes, footwear and books and expects us to match it. We have two young children of our own and, well, we just can't afford it. We rent a five bed house so the boys can have their own rooms, even though they only visit for a weekend every three weeks and half of school holidays. Anyway, as expected, DH's ex has gone mental. How DH is a bad parent, that he doesn't care, how he has no idea how hard it is for her (she actually left him for another bloke after carrying on behind his back for nearly two years and took the kids 300 miles away [and does nothing to help with visits]) and how he's going to alienate his boys if he's not careful. DH is stressing about it all because he's worried that he won't see his sons because they'll turn against him. Me? I wanna punch the bitch in the throat. Are teenagers really this expensive? Is this a normal demand for a 16yr old kid? We also give them pocket money that goes straight into their bank accounts, which they do nothing for (they don't help out in the kitchen or walk the dogs when they come up to stay, for example) and he has no intention of using any of that for his new wardrobe or books. This isn't the first time that she's asked for more money, and we always pay half (at least) towards uniforms and footwear - we also buy them everyday clothes, usually a couple of tshirts or a hoodie when i'm buying clothes for our two (2 & 4, so grow out of things quickly!). Are we being unreasonable by telling the boys' mum that we can't afford it (we'd have to get stuff on a credit card) or is it normal to fork out this much money? My friends all tell me that we do more than enough already but, well, they're my mates so possibly a bit biased?

I got some new clothes for 6th form as I needed more casual wear now that I wasn't wearing uniform. It was along the lines of extra jeans, a few tops and a few jumpers. Not a massive overhaul of a wardrobe. Her demands sound excessive and opportunistic.

he started hinting about new stuff for school. He asked for a leather jacket, boots, tshirts and jeans
Why on earth does he need a leather jacket and jeans for school? Round here, they all have to wear suits. Next does perfectly fine ones for under £100.

Have you thought that two teenage boys could be playing both his parents off against one another to get what they want. The boys seem to have a lot of money at their disposal and their parents are only communicating sporadically. They are getting away with causing all kinds of arguments & twisting your words. My friends parents separated (when we were young) and my friend used it to her full advantage to get everything she wanted. Some (not all) teens know exactly how to play their parents to get what they want. "Everyone else has one, I'm the only one going without blah, blah, blah....". Most parents don't want their children be 'the odd one out', so try to meet the demands. It's a good lesson to teach : Money has to earned (by someone), it doesn't just appear or come out of pockets/atms at your beck and call. All parents/Guardians need to communicate and reading from the same page.

The £500 is expected as our contribution to clothes, Dr Marten's and text books that he needs - it's been a while since I did A levels, but my school provided books!? Anyway, like I said, we were going to buy the jacket, jeans and then DH was going to order half the value of the books. His ex has asked that we don't do that, but give her the money and she'll sort it. The reason I asked if this is a 'normal' amount to spend is because I have no idea what teenagers need these days - I sure as hell didn't have a list like that, but none of my friends have kids his age (the eldest of my friends' kids is 11) so, when the ex says that her son isn't being unreasonable and that the amount is normal, I have no idea. As for why she doesn't work, who knows. We're not aware of any health issues, but we know her parents pay her rent.

I suspect it's best you leave it to your husband to decide and sort out as there is rarely a right and wrong in this situation - except my usual plea - that women go out there and out earn men so money is not an issue and they can pay for their children themselves (my position) - then all the problems melt away.

I don't like these types who don't work but on what teenagers cost it's all relative. I paid over £400 this week for one (for some medical non-NHS) stuff. Then last year as you mention school clothing £600 for each of them on a suit each for school - yes you can get cheaper suits - as I say it is all relative and you have to cut your cloth accordig to your means. The same day I paid the £400 I transferred £200 to that teenager as his card needed topping up. Their school fees which I pay together are over £30k a year.

One of mine is always chatting to me about what other parents spend. I spend a lot less apparently although I always take that with a pinch of salt. The bottom line is what I spend leaves me able to fund univewsity for them without any student loans at all and help them buy a flat in their 20s. If they get less than other boys at school because I make those choices then lucky them that I am a bit "meaner" than other parents.

On clothes one of mine (the one who is bothered about what he wears - the other isn't) says he has many fewer clothes than other boys. Great I say - that will help you pursue hard your intended career as lawyer - lucky you that you are given that drive.... laughing as I type. Mine are very lucky children all round, not least because I have not remarried and not moved another man in. Also this year I paid for them to have driving lessons and pass their test and they drive my second car now so ignoring the car cost that has cost about £2000.

I suggest all the adults involved in all this go out and work ful time and earn a bit more money and then everyone will be fine.

We've been through the teenage years here and sixth form and no way did either DC need £1000 or even £500 for clothes and books. This is middle class suburbia in very good schools with a range of family incomes. Do your step children go to an independent school maybe? I assume as the maintenance payment is quite high your DH is well paid, so do the children feel he can afford it?

My DC had an allowance by their 16th birthday which had to cover all their spends - clothes, make up, lunches, entertainment. We just pay for extra curricular clubs and school trips. If this isn't enough they can get a job.

Your husband should sit down with his sons and explain to them, non-aggressively, exactly how much money he pays for their upkeep, with all the extras and how he cannot afford to pay for everything they want, when they want it. No finger-pointing or snide remarks about their mother, just very basic economics. Leather jackets would seem appropriate for Christmas/birthday presents, not normal school wear. And it is up to him to make sure they contribute some help in the house when they stay.

You are clearly very bitter, but you knew he had children to support when you married him and you had a choice. Talk of 'punching the bitch in the throat' will not help the situation. It is good that he takes his responsibility to his sons seriously and is generous, so many fathers aren't.

I'm with goblin, an expensive leather jacket is a birthday or Christmas present not something just to just get bought because you fancy it for school.
Books won't be that expensive,not for A Level, and many will be available second hand I should think.
And I,m amazed he can wear jeans etc to school - every 6th form round here has business clothes is suits/ smart trousers/shirt/ tie as its dress code.

Girl - thanks for your perspective. Both myself and DH work - I dropped an hour a day though so that I can do the nursery run. DH is the main earner and, as the csa figure suggests, isn't on a bad salary. I don't do too badly either, but I'm limited because of needing to do child-friendly hours. We pay over the odds for a larger house so that the boys can have their own rooms, if we were to downsize then we'd probably knock about £400 a month off our rent (and go down a band or two in council tax) if we stayed in the same area. I feel that, at the end of the day, someone (son or mother) needs to realise that there are other things we need to spend our money on - I definitely don't work to support her!

Goblin - I basically picked up the pieces when I met my DH, as he'd been left with practically nothing to furnish his flat with and was paying for everything. The boys are great, I never talk badly about their mum and we have a good relationship. However, I do resent their mum as all she seems to do is cause my husband extra stress.

Ds1 is nearing the end of the first year of A Levels andxwe have had to pay £100 in total on books. They have to wear formal clothes so trousers/shirt/tie etc.

You may want to check on the school website what the 6th form dress code is just in case.

At 16 with a v long summer ahead he should be getting a part time job.

The £500 is expected as our contribution to clothes, Dr Marten's and text books that he needs - it's been a while since I did A levels, but my school provided books!?

A lot of schools can't afford this for A level students nowadays, or they ask for a contribution. DD's school asked for £100 to help with costs of textbooks, plus a deposit on each one to be returned at the year end (so a lot of money up front) and a lot of my friends were saying what a bargain that is. DD is now transferring to college for A levels and it's much worse as she has to provide all books and equipment. The first maths book alone is well over £25 (even 2nd hand), she'll need more throughout the year, she needs a graphics calculator which the college can get for the highly discounted price of £75, plus all her pads, paper, pens, maths equipment. And this is one subject. Science requires a lab coat etc etc Teens are bloody expensive - the first thing I thought looking at your amount was that it wouldn't go that far!

However, my DDs both work part time for their clothes and summer work should be a possibility for the eldest so I wouldn't necessarily be funding the clothes. However, if you are giving a clothing allowance, as you say, £30 a month is nothing. Teens clothes cost them a fortune - it's not like clothing little ones, believe me. And when mine were small and I was buying them £3 tops from Asda I thought it utterly ridiculous that a teen should need £100 for a pair of docs or vans. Then you get there, and they have to be part of their culture...and you realise.

It sounds mean, but whatever the circumstances of his wife's departure, if he couldn't afford to support his teens and the younger ones properly, he shouldn't gave had the younger ones. The teens were already his children, they didn't have a choice. But I would encourage the oldest to get a part time job over the summer.

The 14 year old is old enough for a paper round.

Books won't be that expensive,not for A Level, and many will be available second hand I should think.

As someone seeing her second teen through A levels, I imagine it's highly likely they will be that expensive. Most educational books are in the region of £25-£30 and they need a good few of them. 2nd hand sell for almost the same. Part of the problem being, that were you to buy them in March you might get them a bit cheaper, but of course, no one needs them then. So like anything else on eBay/ Amazon, the 2nd hand market in August - October when everyone is trying to buy them ramps up and up until you are paying £1 less than new for a really tatty old book.

At the sixth form open evening for children and parents they will detail what clothes they should wear and what text books will be required for the courses. Take him shopping yourselves for some of the items.

I have had two boys go through 6th form - ds2 has just left - and I think it can cost more than some people on here are estimating.

We had to buy yet books for our boys, I think 5 or 6 text books each, at a cost of about £20 per book. So £120 each.

Both boys need more clothes for 6th form as they had mostly been wearing uniform before 6th form so didn't have as many ordinary clothes. However, DS1 had stopped growing by 6th form whereas ds2 kept on growing, and so needed new clothes and shoes quite regularly. 2 pairs of jeans is a minimum, as are 2 pairs of shoes/ trainers. Plus t shirts and hoodies etc. It all adds up. However, some of this surely should be covered by the maintenance? And the costs can be cut down by shopping in Primark rather than Hollister!

I don't think posters who are suggesting your dss should get a part time job are thinking it through. I'm not aware of many (indeed, any) part time jobs for 16 year olds that would allow him to be absent for 1 weekend in 3 and half all school holidays. If you insist he gets a part time job to fund himself then you may be effectively saying that he won't be coming to visit any more, which I'm sure isn't your intention.

Mine at 16 did not get jobs and it is very hard these days to get them particularly as there are so many people in London trying to get them around here.

I would just go for honesty. Their father could email the boys a spreadsheet of his income and out goings. My sons know what money there is and where it goes. One was cross over my suggestion expensive sun glasses were a waste of money as you lose and break them although I accepted that many people use them as a status symbol . He said rightly how come then I am about to help his brother buy a flat. I said well that's exactl it - I have the money for the flat because I haven't wasted money on sunglasses in their teenage years and I get my sunglasses each year free with a magazine!

Although today I will be spending £30 per teenager on their hair cuts - the cost is endless andi f your husband only rents a house that presumably means when he dies his teenagers will not be getting a capital sum which they might have been had there not been this divorce so longer term they will rpobably suffer from their father not owning a house any more.

Him paying more than the amount she can legally enforce is Irrelevant that's what he has agreed as is paying half for other things as that is also part of the agreement.

What appears to be problematic is what they agreed he should pay half towards and who gets to decide what the budget is.

Wanting to punch someone in the throat and calling them grabby is shit which ever way you look at it. He's doing what normal decent none deadbeat parents do that is not a gold star action it should be usual.

There is not much point asking if 1k on clothes is normal because it will be for some people and it won't be for others people's lifestyle tend to be fairly in line with income savings and attitudes.

It is faily normal for teenagers to want stuff it is also fairly normal for them to have a lack of understanding about priorities

Surely the CSA payment covers some of this? When they were younger it might have covered activity fees and babysitting whereas now what's saved on that can go on books and premium clothes.
IME children are most expensive when they are at nursery, then it drops a bit during primary school before ramping up again when they hit their teens and suddenly there are mega expensive school trips to pay for.

My DS has just finished A levels. I probably spent £50 on books got them second hand. He just wore jeans every day, did not buy any new clothes specifically.

ExH pays me £500 a month, CSA figure, for the two kids and it is calculated on them spending 2 days a week with him. I have to pay for everything out of that, he will not buy clothes or school uniform or pay for trips. He says that the CSA money is enough and I have to pay for everything else. I thought that was standard.

If he has this really good relationship with the boys, he will be able to sit down and talk reasonably with them about the money. What is he afraid the ex is actually going to do at this point? They are of the age where they can make their own choice about contact with their dad. How do travel arrangements work if they live that distance away from you?

This is going to sound blunt but it sounds like the ex and the children are used to a certain way of life.

1200 a month is more than enough to pay for 2 children.

That is basically my months wage. I pay for 2 children. And pay all the bills run a car etc off of that. With a bit of tc help.

Why do the boys need their own rooms? If there are there once a month? I imagine you are paying over the odds on rent for a 5 bed house.

Sounds like your husband is being manipulated and guilt tripped and threatened with lack of love and affection if he doesn't give X y and z to keep the children happy. And does this ex work?? Or does she think that your husband should support her financially. To put in perspective your husband is paying out 10x the amount some fathers would pay

If the children need books. Go halves. If they need clothes go halves. If they need expensive fashionable clothes. They earn and save.

Teenagers are expensive. I have one. He uses his birthday money to buy clothes and I will by one or 2 things off a list. Good luck op

Ok, so £500 isn't that unreasonable for a start-of-term set up (although I'm sure myself and my sisters didn't cost our parents a grand at the start of 6th form). As for what we can afford? We can afford £1200 a month, plus over £100 in fuel for weekend visits plus stuff that we buy them - but we shouldn't have had children??? Really? Oh, and hubby also pays life insurance so the kids get £50k each - so although no house to sell, that's not bad. I just asked whether £500 from us was about right, or if it was over the odds. Kids are in normal schools, jeans are allowed in 6th form. We are also going to help teens in uni. I accept that my outburst last night was uncalled for, but seeing my lovely DH tying himself in knots because he's scared of how his ex will react kinda pisses me off.

Call the school and ask if there is a charge for books. God help you when they go to uni!!!!

Your high earning husband outsourced bring up his own kids, so he should stop whining about the cost of it.

She can ask for whatever she wants, and he can say no.

I don't buy that he had no money to pursue a shared care arrangement when they spilt.

• he could have stayed in the house (no rent) until it was agreed - PSO to stop her taking the kids abroad
• he could have rented a room instead of a flat to have more to pay for legal fees
• he's a high earner, he could have put solicitor fees on a sodding credit card. If he can afford £400 more than necessary in rent now, and two more kids, then the credit card would have been paid off long ago
• he could have self represented

He chose to swap hands on parenting for paying cash. The cash he pays is in line with CSA minimum. For the extras, he can just say no.

You sound very bitter about her. It's not your business whether she works or not. Whether other people get fuck all from their ex is not the point.

FWIW I don't claim £400 a month from my XH that I could, through CMS, personal choice. I bloody would if he thought being a parent was something you do every third weekend and 3 weeks in the summer