AIBU or is this normal these days?

[SultanOfPing]

I don't know if i'm completely out of touch, or if DH's ex and kids are completely taking the piss, so a couple of honest views would be appreciated... Basically, DH's ex wife has always been a bit 'grabby'. For the two boys, she gets about £150 more than the csa recommend - in total, close to £1200 a month for the pair of them. The £150 is made up of extra for clothes and dinner money. The two boys are 14 and 16, and the eldest is all set to go on to do A levels in September. A few weeks ago, he started hinting about new stuff for school. He asked for a leather jacket, boots, tshirts and jeans...we agreed on the jacket (it's not a cheap one that he's picked!) and two pairs of jeans. Anyway, the ex sent DH a text a couple of days ago...she's putting £500 of her own money (she doesn't work, so basically DH's/our money that we give her for the boys) towards clothes, footwear and books and expects us to match it. We have two young children of our own and, well, we just can't afford it. We rent a five bed house so the boys can have their own rooms, even though they only visit for a weekend every three weeks and half of school holidays. Anyway, as expected, DH's ex has gone mental. How DH is a bad parent, that he doesn't care, how he has no idea how hard it is for her (she actually left him for another bloke after carrying on behind his back for nearly two years and took the kids 300 miles away [and does nothing to help with visits]) and how he's going to alienate his boys if he's not careful. DH is stressing about it all because he's worried that he won't see his sons because they'll turn against him. Me? I wanna punch the bitch in the throat. Are teenagers really this expensive? Is this a normal demand for a 16yr old kid? We also give them pocket money that goes straight into their bank accounts, which they do nothing for (they don't help out in the kitchen or walk the dogs when they come up to stay, for example) and he has no intention of using any of that for his new wardrobe or books. This isn't the first time that she's asked for more money, and we always pay half (at least) towards uniforms and footwear - we also buy them everyday clothes, usually a couple of tshirts or a hoodie when i'm buying clothes for our two (2 & 4, so grow out of things quickly!). Are we being unreasonable by telling the boys' mum that we can't afford it (we'd have to get stuff on a credit card) or is it normal to fork out this much money? My friends all tell me that we do more than enough already but, well, they're my mates so possibly a bit biased?

How is the ex going to cope financially when the maintenance stops? It's not that long to go?

I think you need to start moving towards giving the teens a clothing allowance and expense allowance, rather than paying over the CSA amount to his ex-wife.

Silly woman is only a few years away from having all her payments cut off, so she needs to be prepared to find a way to support herself.

So to start school she is proposing to spend £1000 (£500+ Your£500) as well as an expensive leather jacket and two pair of jeans?

My dd is starting sixth form in September. I was proposing going with her to get a few new bits. Thinking £100- £150 max. I am also expecting her to contribute some of her own money if she wants more. We've picked up a couple of tops already in the sales. We are not badly off but £1000 is a ridiculous amount.

How the ex copes in future without the maintenance is totally irrelevant to whether the father should fulfil his legal obligation to pay it now

OP our youngest is about to go into yr 13. Our dc attended private schools. No way did they or most if their friends need £1000 spent on clothes or books. Agree DMs/Leather jackets are birthday or Christmas presents.

DS had an M&S suit with two pairs of trousers and half a dozen decent Lewin shirts. Was about £500.

DD had jeans, leggings, trainers, a few new tops and gets bits and pieces as required as do mist of her friends.

We are well heeled and in pool and pony territory. What's being requested is not normal in my opinion.

OK, I've got a teenager and 2 sons in their early 20s.
School books worked out at less than 30 quid for A levels - the school either provided the books for free, or at heavily discounted rates. You can get most text books from the library or 2nd hand. Don't let them bullshit you that this is a major expense, because it just isn't.
As for clothes, why do they need 500 Quid's worth?? Things like leather jackets are luxuries, the sort of thing you save up for , or get for birthdays. Just so you know, I clothe DS16 for about 300 a year, including shoes.

It sounds from what you say that the boys are fine, and not grabby, but that their mum is pushing her luck.
I would continue to liase re clothes etc with the boys direct, now they are almost adults she doesn't really need to be involved, or give her permission, for you to take them out and buy some of what they need. Or give them cash tobuy it themselves- most teenagers won't want their parents input shopping trips!

It's a 1000 quids worth not 500 as she's supposed to be putting in 500 too.

Their father could email the boys a spreadsheet of his income and out goings.

No bloody WAY would I hand over that information!!!! Can you imagine? That would just open the floodgates of them nit-picking as to what they think you should and should not be spending on stuff. Absolutely not their business.

A few things

1 they are her money not your dhs money. None of your business how she spends them

2 if you cant afford it then you cant afford it. None of HER business how you spend them.

It goes both ways basically. You do not have a say in how the other spends their money. It doesn't matter that your dh pays her anything the moment they go from his account into hers they are no longer his. Additionally the money he has in his bank account is not hers.

I have 3 (almost 4) teenagers and no way would I be spending £1000 on any of them going to 6th form I have 1 going this year I have earmarked £200 to get her some clothing she would like. then I will likely add some shoes (she likes Dr Martins so that's likely another £100 - she could do with less though) I suspect we will use about £50 on stationary supplies.

If you have already given him jeans and a leather jacket I would offer say £50 towards stationary/book costs and say this is what you can afford and you have already contributed with Jeans and Jacket. if she goes crazy let her. The children will see through that as they grow older.

Of course it bares no relevance to the maintenance now.
Presumably most of the maintenance will swap to the children when they are at uni? So how is she going to put a roof over her head and for the boys for their holidays if her only income is maintenance. id need to know if I was the op what mums expectations are so I didn't suddenly have a "right you need to match this figure" text message like now. If you know in advance you can plan, save and discuss.

He's giving her more than I earn!! Does she work as well?

Some things you have to buy, but they come in waves and troughs - not an equal amount each month!

I don't know what he has to pay, but maybe he monthly allowance should be less(!!!!)), with paying more every now and then to cover unexpected costs.

As a teen, we hardly ever bought clothes and even now I don't get the need to buy clothes weekly/ monthly... I know things are different for teens, but honestly it's a lesson that if you can't afford, you can't have (for now at least).

Ok, so £500 isn't that unreasonable for a start-of-term set up

Erm, I didn't get that from this thread. I think it sounds way more than necessary. (two teens here, youngest has just finished A' levels). Sounds like your h is throwing money out of some sort of misplaced guilt.

There's a fine line to be trodden with the "get a job" thing. Firstly, it depends how easy they are to actually get, and secondly, it can take valuable time away from studying. Ds never actually had one (he was doing 5, then 4 subjects, plus loads of drama and music activities, and was on the 6th form Exec committee and so forth). Luckily, he's never been into labels for clothes and has never felt the need to conform to any "teen culture" expectations. He's always had the gadgets, mind, but has financed those from birthday/Christmas presents. He's working now, in Uni holidays, but that's mainly to fund his travelling plans.

DD supplements what we give her with her own money from her job. I think I spent a couple of hundred kitting her out with "office wear" for 6th form, and mainly from H&M. She was fine with that.

See, what I would do is send her the absolute minimum amount.

If the boys needed more: clothes, books, shoes, school trip, I would be buying them directly myself - going with the boys or doing it directly.

That way you know they are getting what they need, but are also involved.

How the ex copes in future without the maintenance is totally irrelevant to whether the father should fulfil his legal obligation to pay it now

But there is no legal requirement to pay an additional 500 on clothing. Many people wouldn't even spend that on themselves in a year, let alone a 16 year old.

£1200 a month?! I get £150 from my ex and I would not dream of asking my ex to pay half of anything. My DD is only 2 but even when she starts school I won't be asking him to chip in for uniforms. I enjoy earning my own money and paying for DD's stuff myself without having to ask the ex for anything.

The maintenance is for the children so he shouldn't be expected to give extra. She's having a laugh.

You are not the evil step mum at all, she's a money grabbing bitch.

It's ok to say no to this request. Just remember that in families where the parents are still together everyone has to live within their means. If you can't afford the extra money then you can't afford it. Your DH's ex will be horrible whatever you do and no amount of money will change that. I know this because we have a similar grabby type in our life too. Giving her extra money won't suddenly make her a decent person who will be grateful for it, so you and your DH should do whatever suits you both.

Explain to your DH that his children need to learn that they can't have everything given to them too easily. It's an important lesson for them to understand that there are not unlimited funds from the Bank of Dad and during their teens is a perfect time for them to learn this. Good luck!

Cabrinha
Your high earning husband outsourced bring up his own kids, so he should stop whining about the cost of it.

If I've read the thread correctly, the EW left OPs husband having been gala banging with another man. EW also chose to move 300 miles away.

Hardly the definition of someone "outsourcing" their responsibilities.
Also it sounds like perhaps some of OPs DHs financial successes have been gained since having not been with the EW.

Anyway- I agree with some other posters, I think your DH should consider changing his payments to EW to CSA minimum and then give the additional £150 per month he pays directly towards purchases for his sons when they visit. So for example the sons could bring a list of school trips or books or clothes or activities they want some extra money for and the £150 goes directly to those things.
Continue to pay their pocket money, which they can use for socialising, and the extra £75 a piece is sort of the equivalent of their part time job wage (as I also thing it would be difficult to get a part time job allowing every third weekend and half the summer off).

With regard to the EW I do think you and your husband need to agree between yourselves what will happen when your CSA obligations stop. Obviously I would hope your DH would continue to support his sons directly but you need to ensure you are on the same page about communicating the cessation of maintenance to his EW. I do feel this is a family discussion as this impacts you and your husband did not create this situation in the first place.

1200 a month is more than enough to pay for 2 children

This is where lifestyle and budget are subjective and individual.

It wouldn't be enough to pay for two of my children. It wouldn't even come close and would be a laughable amount.

I think its over the odds and think DH is within his rights to state than anything above the agreed maintenance will either go direct to the boys to use when they are with him or direct on the items they want and have them delivered. Giving cash to ex has no guarantee that it will reach the boys at all. Just tell her you will both take them shopping or actually say no paid enough already sorry can't afford it.

Exactly - it's all relative.

It may be the case that this man could not really afford his second family so should not have had the extra children as the first children are worse off as a result.
As for suggestions the teenagers should not know what the father gets in and pays out mine do. If the children live with you at home they would often know. It doesn't need to be some huge secret just because the father doesn't live at home.

However the legal position here is he is obliged only to pay what the law requires. Our divorce order says I pay 5 sets of school and university fees for example - £50k a year + which would put something like only £1200 a month into total insignificance and when he left I had to pay £30k childcare costs a year so i could work full time to keep us all.

Lucky you don't receive £70 like me then lol

44PumpLane thanks, I was just about to say that. Think some posters have forgotten who started this ball rolling.

44 I know that she had the affair and she moved away.
I also know that he didn't bother trying to stop her. So I still think he outsourced his parenting responsibility - and that costs cash.

Has he improved his finances after splitting? Well I daresay he has, because he's been unencumbered by childcare restraints on developing his career. Unlike their mother. (which may be a choice she's happy with - but he certainly didn't choose to prioritise being an equal parent)

Note his it's the OP who has reduced her hours to accommodate nursery pick ups, not him. So yet again, his high earning status isn't compromised.

I just don't have any time for people bleating about how much they have to pay, when they choose not to see their kids 50/50.

As the higher wage earner in our home, if DH and I needed to reduce hours for one of us to accommodate childcare pick ups then it would be my DH who would drop hours.

It makes sense for a family (well my family specifically) financially to lose x hours of a lower salary than x hours of a higher salary.