Have I broken playdate etiquette?

[m0therofdragons]

Dd is nearly 9. I work so poor dd rarely has friends over. I finally got my act in gear and invited dd's close friend. We know the parents well enough to chat but that's about it. Anyway, I suggested dd's friend could sleep over. All fine. Then a meal that had been cancelled was rescheduled so there was a clash. I mentioned to dh and he said it wasn't an issue and it's only 3 hours I'll be out anyway. Dh does more school runs than me and is very hands on and capable with our 3dc. I mentioned it to dd's df's mum and she's now cancelled. Dh is really upset and worried how other parents view him. Her reason was that she feels her dd "needs a 'mummy' around".
I'm struggling to understand without being offended on dh's behalf. Dh is far more patient and fun than I'll ever be. He's hosted playdates and sleep overs before for other dc (usually when I'm out with their mums).

I think these responses are overly harsh. As a child, I felt uncomfortable around men a lot, even family members if I was on my own with them. I really don't know why. Even now, some men I am fine with and can have a good chat and a laugh and others I feel awkward around. Maybe there is more to it that the mother doesn't feel like sharing with the world, as she shouldn't have to. She certainly isn't the names she has been called on here .

My DD (was 4 at the time) went on a 'playdate' and I didn't know the mum was going out, I knew her a bit, had only seen the dad around occasionally. DD didn't know him. I found out when DD told me he helped her get changed and I asked why the mum didn't. Also we got different reasons from the mum and dad as to why the mum had to go out. I did feel uncomfortable about it and feel they shouldn't have put DD in that position.

However there is a dad at school that I knew before the mum and I'd be completely fine with either DC going there with just him.

Maybe in the past something terrible has happened to them or someone they know relating to a male being is sole charge... Maybe she is being protective for a reason... In which case she may not be
open with you about it but may be more comfortable knowing you are there with her child. I wouldn't take it personally.
She probably isn't a loon

It's not sexist to say I wouldn't leave my children with adults I didn't know well or trust.

I would be even less likely to leave my children with a man I didn't know well than a woman. It's just a fact - how many more men than women commit sexual offences? How many children have ever unfortunately had some experience with inappropriate behavior? It's very pc to pretend these things don't happen but they do.

Same as HarryPotter, I used to feel uncomfortable when the dad got home if I was round playing at a friends.
No reason, nothing the dads did wrong.
Maybe the girl isn't comfortable about it.

Don't think anyone else has said it but could she recently have started having periods and would be worried about saying something to a dad if one started unexpectedly or if she made a mess of the bed?

Maybe their dd has a problem she's uncomfortable sharing with your dh if necessary? She may have her period (one girl had when my dd was 9), still wet the bed (a significant minority of 9 yr olds do), night terrors, pains in her vagina caused by thread worms (believe it or not i had this come up with a 7 yr old girl i was babysitting), i am sure your dh wouldn't be phased by any of this, but they don't know that and equally their dd may be stating she is uncomfortable with it being a dad that helps her if she is used to her mum. There could even be a historical issue with another man that means their dd doesn't want to.,they would hardly share that with you.
It may just be they are sexist twits, but I would've thought you might have noticed that before in the 4 years?

I'm feeling sorry for your DD tbh not your DH.

He's an adult. He should be able to recognise that there could be a million and one reasons why the other mum isn't comfortable with your DH overseeing a sleepover. And actually if the other mum does have anxiety about her DD staying with your DH then that's ok. She doesn't have to ignore it so your DH doesn't get upset.

It could also be completely unrelated to the mum being sexist. Perhaps the DD changed her mind. Perhaps the DM felt uneasy that the arrangements changed but you didn't tell her. Perhaps she likes to decide who is being the main carer for her DD rather than being presented with a fait accompli.

But it's a shame that both the girls have missed out on a sleepover.

DH never ever ever wants to be the only grown up around when the DDs have sleepovers. They are a bit older now, 10 and 12. He worries that

• the friend will not be comfortable coming to him with a problem
• he would not know how to deal with them falling out with each other
• the friend will start her period (he seriously said this)
• he would come across as somehow "inappropriate" if he had to be firm with them e.g. not sleeping at 1am

In this day and age of "a paedo around every corner," I think really it's a self preservation thing for him and it's really really sad.

Yes, I do think leaving a man on sleepover duty is putting him in a vulnerable position too. Sadly.

I feel sorry for her. She obviously has a shit dh at home a d thinks they're all like that

Do you think she could have taken it as a hint that you wanted to cancel the sleepover?

Depending on what you actually said to her she could have thought you wanted to cancel due to other plans, but were too polite to say. Did she say that you should rearrange the sleepover for another time?

I'm far more careful over what men have unsupervised contact with my daughter than I am women. That's just the way the world is, unfortunately.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but my reading of the OP was that the host Mum would be out for 3 hours not away overnight?

My 8 yo DD regularly goes to play dates hosted by her friend's Dad, it's never occurred to me that might be an issue.

I did have one Mum text me all concerned that due to a work clash her DH would be doing their half of the Brownie run and did I mind - of course I didn't but this kind of attitude is presumably why.

Oddly no one seems to have a problem with the Dad's doing the Cubs run.

Just to add another view. While your friend's attitude is not the norm or my own. I think some of the views and words used to describe her are a little lacking in understanding and unfair. It is HER problem but I wonder if she has some abuse in her past? It is nothing to do with you or your DH. I really think this could be the real issue. I think if this thread were from her perspective and said ( re poss abuse in past) , though she is obviously wrong to bring it into the present I just have a feeling this could be the root of the issue.

The OP was going to be out for 3 hours - not overnight.

There could be a million and one reasons that she didn't want her DD to spend 3 hours in a house with a male parent because there should be a 'mummy' present - none of which seem particularly rational.

In my opinion obviously.

Your husband sounds lovely and I am sure if she knew you both very well she would not have been concerned, but as she does not, she did what she thought safest. I don't think your husband should take it personally.

I actually know someone whose husband abused their daughter's friend.

I personally would not let a child have a sleepover with either a mummy or daddy I did not know well.

I'd be really upset on DP's behalf if this happened to him.
OP isn't away overnight, just nipping out for a couple of hours. The other DC knows and happily plays with the Dad, and yet he can't be trusted to take care of her for three hours. That's a film or two and pizza.

IF the other DC has started her period, the only thing I can think of that might require a mum AND she'll be on at the sleep over I would provide a small bag of femwipes and pads and quickly mention to the OP so she can make sure there's a bin in the bathroom. Even at 9 managing periods isn't too difficult (I did it all by myself at 10 without even telling my mum!).

Presumably the DC can call her mum if she needs to?

I'm sure it was the little girl, not knowing yr DH very well, probably made her unsure, many children are not comfortable with strangers, also maybe she doesn't like to go to many sleepovers, quite understandable really.

I agree witgh KindDogsTail "I personally would not let a child have a sleepover with either a mummy or daddy I did not know well."

bestimeever I disagree, re "It is HER problem". No, it is not! It is the OP's child's problem because she has lost her play date, and so has her friend. Blaming the other mum is totally unfair.

m0therofdragons lots of very harsh and totally unfair comments on here, IMHO, against the other mum.

I don't think you will like my views but in the nicest possible way, here is my take on it....

You made arrangements for your daughter's friend to sleep over (aged 9) and then changed the situation by removing yourself. So you would not be home and your husband would be. The other mum (or child) or both are not comfortable with this.

BUT your husband gets the hump, and might not offer again! This then becomes all about your husband the adult male, rather than being about the children. I am afraid men sometimes tend to do this! Watch out next time something similar happens and see how quickly men get offended or men need to be managed when the play date was actually about two little girls. Think about it.

All parents, mums and dads, make choices about what they are happy for with regard to their children and it is no business of others to question those decisions.

Men are generally not as good with kids, I know, I know lots of men and it's true. They often work full time and are less aware of kids needs. OF COURSE THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL MEN!

If men want to be 'equal' in the child care stakes maybe they need to do more looking after the kids! The fact your husband is different may not be know to this mum, and even if it is, it is still her choice who looks after her daughter.

I'm afraid I think (in the nicest way) you should have prioritized your dd's play date as you said yourself that you cannot always do this for her. And I'd go further to say that if you and dd are not used to having play dates I'd start with just play or play and tea and not do a sleep over.

No surprise to learn that in your child's friend's mums shoes I might have done the same. But whether I would or not, I think it is important to respect other parents wishes about their own children.

I am a feminist and this is not an 'equality' issue. It is a changing the details after agreement issue.

Hope you will find a new date for the play date and all will be well.

If you want to encourage your husband you could tell him that clearly (from responses here) not all parents would feel the same as this mum BUT recognizing other parents feelings and wishes is all part of being, and being seen, as a good person to look after other people's kids.

I am sure he will get over it.

Italiangreyhound I was not BLAMING the other mother. Far from it. I am THE OTHER MOTHER. Not literally of course but being someone who was abused in just these similar circumstances (by a known trusted family friend). I know I am over cautious in these circumstances and wonder if this is what the OP's friend is feeling and had a similar experience. Of course this is no reflection on the OP, her DH or most other people. I felt sad that the third party mum was being called names when perhaps she acts from an experience like mine hopefully not everyone has had :-( :-(. Hope that explains my perspective.

What an absolute load of sexist, patronising nonsense.

I assumed the other mum didn't know your dh and that was the reason why. Then I read your update.

It irritates me how quick some women are to read abuse into other women's backgrounds, as if being damaged is the only reason that a mother would protect her daughter from potential male predators despite the very logical greater possibility that a male will be a threat.

As the mother of an abuse victim, I would be dubious too. It isn't a distrust of all men but those that are a risk don't wear a tattoo on their forehead and, believe you me, when something has gone wrong, you can't put it back in the box. It is there forever. Consequently, I would never take that chance again.