To feel this way about my daughter?

[emmamaw]

I'm sitting here crying like a baby over my 11yo dd. I struggle to say dd - as in dear daughter. We've never really been close. Shes the eldest of 3 and often says she wishes she'd stayed an only child. She hates her younger brother (8) and often loses patience and snaps at her baby sister (3). I think she hates me too. The way she speaks to us all is dreadful. I know children are self-centered but she really has no care or consideration for anyone in this house. Every day I wake up dreading what mood shes going to be in. All she cares about is going on the phone/tablet/pc to talk to her best friend and watch videos. I know thats probably pretty normal but if anything gets in the way of that the whole household suffers. If she doesnt want to go somewhere she will purposefully ruin the whole day. We sometimes have to leave her behind when we do day trips etc. just so that the other dc dont miss out. Its like she hates the world around her and wants everyone to know it. Shes always saying she wishes she could go and live with her best friends family, and I truly believe she means it.
This morning I said we would go to town after school, just the two of us, to buy her holiday clothes, as she says she hates what I buy for her and really kicks off if I make her wear them. She shrugged her shoulders and said 'whatever'. Then i found some new underwear I'd bought her hidden behind her bed. When i asked her about it she looked me straight in the eye, and with utter contempt said 'i dont want to wear anything you buy me, and i dont want to go anywhere with you, ever!' I just saw red and smacked her. It scares me sometimes the hate that boils up inside me. I just feel so wretched over her. Shes been like this for years and weve tried everything we can think of. I have great relationships with my partner and other two dcs. I just feel like she ruins everything. She hates me and nothing i do seems to change that. I dread coming home from work and often stay late because I know there'll be trouble as soon as i walk in. I cant live like this for the next seven or whatever years.
How do you learn to live with someone who hates you?

I've a dd a bit like this although i think (i hope) she's getting better. I don't waste my breath over clothes, or hair. She does smell!

my friend who has witnessed a lot said to me that my dd demands attention but doesn't know how to receive it. which sounds bonkers but it hits the nail on the head. every day I woke up determined that it would be a fresh slate and I would greet her good morning and make her tea and ask her if she was ok. And it'd be about ten minutes before she said something so horribly nasty I had to leave the room. And sometimes the house.

I used to walk away and leave her for half an hour to try and 'train' her to be less nasty but apparently that can make a child end up being 'avoidant' in relationships.

it's hard. you have my sympathy.

She hates showering, washing, brushing her teeth etc (normal at her age perhaps). She would put dirty clothes back on the next day if I let her.

These are common red flags for depression, especially alongside the rage - rage is a very common part of depression and self care is reliant on executive skills and energy that depression makes it difficult to access. Yes, the hormonal imbalances of puberty can make them more common, but the length of time you're discussing is a bit much to write it off as puberty and either way she obviously needs help in this.

Other than outside help recommended by others, I would recommend Emotional First Aid by Guy Winch - for both of you, but at least you to start with.

I really feel for you op I have a "d"d of nearly 15 who is absolutely acid tongued and vile at times, I agree with pp's who have mentioned picking your battles, once I started to do this my life became so much easier. I really don't miss that 10/11/12 year old phase if I'm honest, I actually believe that's worse than the teens personally. I can understand about the jealousy and only child thing, I fell pregnant with DS when DD was 12 and I remember taking out my scan picture to show a friend and DD had gouged a huge X over the baby with her nail (you could only see it in the light but still very noticeable) she now adores her brother but for a long time the jealousy was rampant. You sound like a lovely genuine mum who has got to the point I was at (how the hell did I spawn such a selfish, self centred hateful little madam!) But it does get better, pick your battles and try not to let the guilt override you.

I have so much sympathy with you for what you are going through with your daughter. I went through exactly the same with my dd. Don't listen to anyone who judges you and tries to make out that its somehow your fault. From what you are saying, you are clearly doing the best you can. If it was down to your "parenting skills" then all of your children would be acting out. I feel so bad for you because I know what it feels like. I know it may not be much comfort to you now, but I now have a much better relationship with my dd, who is now 21. She has told me that her behaviour was totally out of line, and that she only behaved that way towards me because she thought I was a soft touch. She also said that she would never allow any child of her's to get away with that kind of behaviour. My advice to you would be, just keep on doing the best you can, have faith that it will get better with time, and love yourself through this difficult time. Most of all stay away from anyone who tries to dump more guilt or shame on you about the situation, regardless of how "qualified" they claim to be. People like that are toxic, and will only make the situation more difficult. And, for the record, you are allowed to have feelings/ feel sorry for yourself / worry about how you are going to get through the next few years - it doesn't make you a bad mother!

There's quite few behaviours that are common in children with attachment problems, if there were bonding problems, it might be worth having a read up. There is a fb group called therapeutic parenting which might have some useful advice .

I can see that you are at the end of your tether, but I have to say that if a child went into school and said she was hit, a visit by social services would be triggered. You know that it is wrong, and you have lost control.

I know from experience that teens and pre teens can be deadly, though, please go and get some counselling. Actually a visit from SS might be a good way to get this. They're not all about removing kids

You can pull this back.

My dd and I were always locking horns when she was 9ish. I managed to step back and realise it was jealousy of her younger sibling. She had a point. Like your DD she was a perfect child at school. Ds was younger, much less mature and was quite manipulative remembers the time he was shouting because she was hitting him only to spot him rolling around the floor with her nowhere near him In retrospect I did have too high expectations of her and he did get away with more than she would ever have been allowed to. He also demanded cuddles whereas she had never liked it even as a baby, so I'd got out of the habit of cuddling her.

Anyway having stepped back and assessed the situation I gave her a lot more "big girl" privileges. She was allowed to sit in the front seat of the car whilst he wasn't etc. and I made a big point of saying it was because she was older. I love bombed her. I demanded quick cuddles. She would shrug me off but I said " I don't care. You may not want them but I do". I think I shifted my attitude so I generally demanded less of her, and kept remembering that she was still only very young even if she acted as if she was older sometimes. We have a fantastic relationship now she is older but at the time we had got into a vicious cycle of negativity.

Give her more freedom and grown up rights/power over herself op, but expect less of her. She's still young. Love bomb her and ignore her tantrums just as you would a toddler. Accept that she isn't as old as she appears.

Save any discussions about how she over reacted and was rude etc for when she is in a calm state after the event. There is no point interacting when the red mist descends. Save your voice. Calmly discuss how you both could have handled things better when you are both calm. Admit your faults to her and take some of the blame for how things have developed. Don't take things personally. She is lashing out at the person she loves the most as she is hurting. Keep reassuring her that a first child is extra special because she was so much wanted and everything was an exciting new experience for you. That your love is unconditional and you'll love her whatever she does/doesn't do in every aspect of life.

Moan about how babyish her younger siblings are (out of their earshot) and how lovely it is that she is so much more grown up than they are. Ask her advice, perhaps something like asking her which scarf she thinks you should wear etc, to show her you value her opinions. Tell her now that she is grown up it's time for you to back out of choosing her clothes etc. She might not look exactly how you want but pick your battles. You might find if you back off with the hair she might start doing it herself. She can't at the moment as that is one area she has control and she can't back down on that without losing face. Ditto any other areas of conflict. Can you find ways of compromising on things to save face for her?

You can pull this back. Fake it till you make it even if you aren't feeling that well disposed towards her at the moment. She is a little girl in pain and needs you to show her you value her more than anything regardless of how she behaves.

Good luck.

DN4GeekinDerby I agree. I was once that teenager, from the age of about 9 or 10 I was horrible, I didn't take care of myself, I hated my younger brother and my parents.

I had been bullied for years at school and I think combined with hormones it all just sort of piled up and I became depressed. Unfortunately it wasn't recognised and around 12 or 13 years old I started to self harm.
At 10 or 11 I didn't have the words to explain how I felt or even understand it myself, in fact I'm not even sure I realised it wasn't normal. I just felt crap all the time and it came out in my behaviour.

If you speak to your daughter she may not be able to express those feelings or even know theres anything abnormal about it. Consider talking to your GP about her behaviour and maybe ask for a referral to CAMHS

I WAS THIS CHILD! I felt like I hated my mum, it's horrible to say that now as we have a great relationship now but it was terrible from probably around age 7 until I was pregnant with my first (25). I had no connection with her and the more she offered to buy me things or take me shopping the worse it was as I felt she was trying to buy me. The cause was feeling as if she didn't know or understand me. She was so frustrated with me i could sense it and thought she wished I didn't exist as I ruined the family...of course she loved me but she didn't like me as a person and that hurt...and still does to be honest even though I know she likes who I am now. If she had of got to know me as a person and found things she liked about me it would have changed everything I believe.

My brother was like this.

Sullen, grumpy, volatile. moody, aggressive.

It was very hard for all of us.

I am not sure anyone handled it very well - there was lots of shouting and crying in our home for many years.

I hate to say it, but he didn't snap out of it until he was about 23. He's 35 now and lovely, married with a DD.

I think he was just a very angry youth.

I knew she was 11 even before I read your post. It's a very hormonal time and often a huge time of change and upheaval too. It's okay to feel like you want to smack her one too! I was eventually very close to my Mum and it turned out that we both spent my early teenage years convinced that the other hated us. Maybe try to have a chat? Maybe tell her you love her, no matter what. Maybe also tell her how she's making you feel? I often tell mine that I'm only a person too and that I don't always get things right, or that she's upset me by saying hurtful things. It does sound a bit loopy but I've found it breaks down the barriers. Make time for just the two of you, even if it's a face mask and painting nails. Good luck!

My DD2 was extremely challenging (not just at home but outside too - so in that respect not like your dd) . Although it was many years ago now I found this book really helped us - it apportions no blame and helps you see your DD is not behaving inflexibly on purpose but because her skills are deficient and it gives you techniques to use to address that. It takes a while and above all you have to be consistent in using the approach which is highly compassionate (it has also been updated)
www.amazon.co.uk/Explosive-Child-Understanding-Frustrated-Chronically-ebook/dp/B000W968NW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

I know you have probably tried all sorts of books and techniques but this is the one that finally helped us.

Just had a thought.

At one point - DS was 11 at that time now I think of it - I too burst into tears. I just lost it. He was being SO horrible, argumentative, shouty, ungrateful, spiteful to his brother.... I had to walk away at one point because my hand absolutely itched to slap him.

Not proud of that.

But anyway. I went to my room and just sobbed. Felt like a terrible, useless mother.

He was shocked to the core. Absolutely mortified. Came into my room and apologised over and over again. The most telling thing for me was what he kept murmuring to himself - "I had no idea it upset you this much".

I think he'd got into the habit of acting a certain way and I'd tried so hard to appear unruffled he just didn't realise.

I'm not suggesting for a moment you should burst into tears as a tactic! As a rule I think seeing a parent visibly upset can upset children , especially younger ones - after all we're the ones they trust to be in control.

However as they get older I think it does no harm to remind them that parents have feelings too. Does she know how much it upsets you?

Op, my dd8 is v similar. She'd wear the same clothes day in/day out, won't brush her hair, dresses in appropriately (clothes too tight), has an absolute hatred for me. Many of your posts really resonates....

As a pp poster also mentioned, my dd has ASD. I fought for 2 years to get her diagnosed. We were all at breaking point, and then dd began to self harm. ASD can present very differently in girls. I'd urge you do have a google and see if any descriptions of girls resonate. Cahms referrals are very slow, and your lucky if you even have your referral accepted. I know what it's like to pass breaking point, and have everyone accusing your parenting.

I agree with katekins and neither of you are to blame. However you are the adult and seem like you are reaching out for help. My advice would be to self refer to your local authority for a Family Support Worker who should be able to get you on a Solihull Parenting Course. This is not about blame but a way of showing you a better way of responding to your child who is likely to be suffering low self esteem and feeling unloved. The Solihull course can bought online for about £40 but attending one is probably better if you can access one. As things stand you are all hurting so I think seeking support is in everyone's interests.

I think she is challenging and it's been going on for years.

I don't think it's emanating your parenting - your parenting is a response to her, and you need help to understand and parent her

I think you should seek professional help - possibly family therapy

My DS was all you describe and more, I have 4 children 3 of them were mostly lovely, he was the absolute devil child made everyone's life a misery, if I got through the day without being in tears it was a good day. He even ruined my DD graduation day, as we were due to leave the house he deliberately started an argument and refused to come with us
This continued throughout his teens and twenties. He is now 33 and the most charming, lovely human being you could ever wish to meet, everyone loves him. He speaks 4 languages, has a Masters Degree and a very high ranking job. He calls me most days just to say hello. A few months ago he came home and said, Mum I don't know how you and Dad put up with me when I was younger, a lot of parents would have given up on me I love you so much thank you. You may have to wait, but be patient, bite your lip and praise every little nice thing she does (even if there aren't many) It will come good in the end, Sorry to ramble and I am probably too old to be on this board but I find people's views interesting. Good luck x

I had a lovely mum growing up but I was horrible to her, I always said I'd rather live with my dad (who was an arse hole to her) I used to cause so much trouble with my siblings and I even told her to fuck off and die once.
She's my absolute best friend now, so don't give up on her yet.
I'd hate me when I was a teenager, I wouldn't be surprised if my mum did too.

I agree with emmamaw that it's not usual mother/daughter/preteen stuff so first port of call is GP for referral to CAMHS for family therapy/counselling. Next see if you have a local Babardos/Save the Children group so you can get support and tips. Unfortunately without nipping this in the bud now she'll end up as a troublesome teen up to all sorts and her future in jeopardy. I know it's hard asking for help but you've made a great start asking here! Be kind to yourself and good luck 💐

Dear OP.

Firstly I hope you are ok and I hope your dd are ok. Please don't exclude her from family days out, that is hurtful and I understand why you've done it but don't do it again.
Ask her what she would like to do- and actually do it if you can.
Monitor her Internet use. And I mean she is 11 and you should be checking history, emails etc. No bullying here etc?

Secondly talk to her!! Talk about anything and get the communication going again if you can possibly help it.

Thirdly relax with her, you are angry, hurt and confused about why your baby has turned into a angry, confused hurt person too. Grab her and hug her and tell her she is so loved. Learn to love her and learn to like her.

Some help for you both would be good but start on your own as well. Fix this now.

Secondary school will be hard.

Maybe talked to her friends mum, if you feel you could do so in confidence to ask what she is like there?

My sister was like this to some extent. Our poor father was put through hell by her and her moods and the games she played. Be a family and unite with her over the most difficult years of her changing body and life. It's a bloody nightmare being 11-15! Don't wish it away though.

Good luck and I really hope it works out ok xx

As we all know, not all kids are the same, and my three brothers and sister are wonderful, cuddly, heart-huggingly warm human beings - me, I was the jackel!
I say this in jest now, however, when I was younger, I felt all-powerful. I was bigger than my poor mum, who worked hard to do so much for us all, but when I hit 10 and my hormones kicked in and my periods started, well...I thought the world existed for me and me alone.
Yes, professional help might be good, then again, we tried it, and I laughed in their faces.
My hormones drove me wild, I had heavy periods from a young age, I was the first to have boobs, I was the oldest so always felt like everything was on me, and I took everything personally....If a day out wasn;t going my way, I would make sure if I wasn;t having fun, no-one else would either.
I have no idea why I was like this other than it was who I was! I was a strong, stubborn, hormonal girl, who loved confrontations, as this meant I could yet again revel in the fact I was right! The world WAS against me, I WAS hard done by!
I am happy to tell you I wasn;t the worlds most evil cow for very long, I grew out of it when my mum was diagnosed with an illness. It was like someone switched the light on in my foggy brain, and I could see that I was making life hell for everyone.
I have since been both my parents carer, I have four wonderful children of my own who cannot believe how horrible I was...yes, I am still stubborn, yes I am still childish if things don;t always go to plan, but I now love my family with pure abandon, and will spend the rest of my life making up for the hell I put them all through.
I am so sorry that you're going through this with your gal, but take it from me, deep down, she bloody loves you....she won't say it, she might not show it, but life at this age, especially these days with all the added pressures kids have, can be absolute hell. Theres pressure to be perfect from friends at school, from teachers, from family....it IS so much harder these days that it was even 10, 15 20 years ago.
I would sit down and talk to her, but be firm, because kids cannot abide weakness from their parents, and if she see's how down she is making you, its horrible but she will continue to see how far she can push, its probably her way of gaining some control in a world where she probably doesn't have very much.
Lastly, one thing I have learned, pick your battles. Its so easy when you have a child pushing at the boundaries, to see them as constantly trying to annoy you....this isn;t always the case, its the opposite of rose tinted glasses, its....shite tinted glasses! You see your child in the wrong no matter what because of their attitude, so try your best not to swipe at her for everything, try and talk to her, and just constantly tell her how much you love her, that you might not like her actions, but you love her, and always will. xxx

If I take out your assumptions about her behaviour your dd’s experience isn’t good. She has a family who love each other but appear not to love her. She is 11 years old and not surprisingly doesn’t want to do the same things as her younger siblings – as a consequence her family have wonderful days out together without her. Her dm adores her younger siblings but appears to hate her, in fact she would rather work late than spend time with her. Sometimes her dm takes her shopping which is quite fun until they get home. (What goes wrong then? Is she dropped for the younger and easier to love siblings?) Her siblings are small and adorable, she is eleven years old and frightened of her future and her changing self. She dreams of living in a happier situation (best friend) though she knows realistically she has nowhere to go. She spends hours looking at other people’s lives on social media. Her dm goes through her stuff, describes her as looking like a tramp, is annoyed that she doesn’t let her brush her hair and today hit her.

I think you need to be very careful with this little girl. Next to your other dcs she may have always seemed big and more tricky but as a mother of teenagers I can tell you she is very much a child. You may have had a difficult birth etc and your experience with your own dm will also impact on how you respond to your dd - you have to somehow separate these issues which are nothing to do with your dd and stop taking her anger personally. She will not hate you. She is probably desperate for your attention. Can you love her? If so tell her; if not get professional advice. She needs to reach adulthood able to love other people and be loved herself. At the moment it sounds like she hates herself (and feels you hate her too).

Spend time together just the two of you and also find something you can do together at home - keep your younger dcs away when you are doing something together so she is the priority. She was an only child for three years and may not have felt like the priority since. Find out what sort of things your dd would like to do and find a way to get close to her. Teenage years are difficult and she will need someone who loves her (and makes her feel safe) to discuss issues with and go to for advice. . If something goes wrong she needs to know she can go to you and be heard. Otherwise she will be very vulnerable. Most of all she needs you to love her unconditionally and to fight her patch (with professional help if necessary).

I'm incensed at the judgmental attitude on this thread. I know it's AIBU but... It might be better to move this to relationships OP. This kid is 11 and her mum found some underwear behind her bed. So what? Do all your 11 year olds clean their own rooms? Or do they all live in pig stys? How do we make the leap from, "found them behind her bed" to, "going through her things and not respecting her privacy" I regularly found things behind beds, bookcases, chests of drawers or whatever when my children were this age because I'd actually move furniture to hoover, you know? I still do when I go in to clean DD2's room before she comes home from uni for the holidays and she's 21! I suppose I'm not respecting her privacy either? No, I'm respecting the fact that she'd like a clean room to come home to! As for the hair, if she's not brushing it properly for school and leaving it like a bird's nest in a bobble then I would have hoped that the school would have said something. My DC's school certainly would have done! If she refuses to keep it tidy for school then obviously mum has to do something about it. I agree that she seems far more troubled than normal for a pre teen and would urge you, OP, to seek some counselling help for her and yourself. Smacking is a no, no, of course, so if you're feeling so pent up that you're losing control then you need help as well. Good luck

I've been reading this thread with great interest because I work very very hard all the time to not be in your shoes and it is incredibly tough. Your dd and my DS sound very similar in temperament and behaviours. Autism plays a role in our case (and while I'd never try and diagnose online, it is probably a good idea to rule out this kind of thing). His autism is very subtle and if I hadn't known what I was seeing he could be under the radar still. Like yourself he's my eldest and the younger ones are totally different. I love them all fiercely but he's a much harder child to parent.
As much as the advice to get help sounds great, the reality for me is that the help wasn't worth much. Any benefit DS has got has been due to me putting in the donkey work day in day out. Professionals give advice, usually impractical and unrealistic and I have to find the kernel of wisdom in it, and translate it into something we can do and implement it to the best of my ability in a less than ideal environment.
I'm the powerhouse in our home and keeping my batteries topped up is vital so that means eating well, sleeping well, getting outdoor exercise, a bit of me time ( weak point) and a weekly counselling session (gold).
I need to replenish my positivity tanks too so I bookmark blogs, articles and read books that reinforce my parenting philosophy (loving nurture rather than tough discipline) and I read these regularly to keep myself on the right track. Family therapy/ counselling/parenting courses are all great but for me I need a regular drip feed because there is no one off solution. Regular and often helps.
At the moment I'm reading a book by Noel Janis-Norton ( from her Calmer, Easier, Happier series) and I think it might be a good starting point for you. Just implementing the first chapter gets the ground back under your feet. She has a very good section on managing screen time and the associated addictive withdrawal tantrum behaviours
I learned to manage DS' transitions between environments and activities from another book ( The out of sync child ) and most of the problems we run into on days out, or fun family activities come down to me not managing his transitions properly. Your comments on grooming made me wonder if your Dd might have some sensory issues so you might find it a useful book.
I've also found the Waldorf philosophy very helpful - creating a home that is warm, nurturing, the importance of regularity, good food and lots and lots of time outdoors. Often I can head off problems by recognising that blood sugar is low/ that he needs a rest/ needs downtime away from people (introvert), needs some outdoor time/ or just needs some 1:1 time with me.
When things go pear shaped ( and they do because I could have written your post several times over) I try and love bomb. I have a few stock phrases that I literally learned off until they became second nature. When he tells me he hates me I reply " that's ok cos I love you enough for both of us", or when he's raging I sometimes say " you look like you could use a hug, I know I need one" and open my arms. It works sometimes lol.
I hope this isn't coming across as smug or preaching. I feel like I'm walking a tightrope and sometimes I'm only clinging on by my teeth. DS is 7 now and I dread what the teenage years will bring. I worry a lot for his future.
I think he is a child with low self esteem and I don't seem to be able to ever fill him up adequately. I'm thinking of introducing the kids to some Buddhist metta meditation to build up their self-compassion and see how we get on.
I don't know if there's anything useful in any of that for you, but just want you to know that you're not the only one struggling.