To feel this way about my daughter?

[emmamaw]

I'm sitting here crying like a baby over my 11yo dd. I struggle to say dd - as in dear daughter. We've never really been close. Shes the eldest of 3 and often says she wishes she'd stayed an only child. She hates her younger brother (8) and often loses patience and snaps at her baby sister (3). I think she hates me too. The way she speaks to us all is dreadful. I know children are self-centered but she really has no care or consideration for anyone in this house. Every day I wake up dreading what mood shes going to be in. All she cares about is going on the phone/tablet/pc to talk to her best friend and watch videos. I know thats probably pretty normal but if anything gets in the way of that the whole household suffers. If she doesnt want to go somewhere she will purposefully ruin the whole day. We sometimes have to leave her behind when we do day trips etc. just so that the other dc dont miss out. Its like she hates the world around her and wants everyone to know it. Shes always saying she wishes she could go and live with her best friends family, and I truly believe she means it.
This morning I said we would go to town after school, just the two of us, to buy her holiday clothes, as she says she hates what I buy for her and really kicks off if I make her wear them. She shrugged her shoulders and said 'whatever'. Then i found some new underwear I'd bought her hidden behind her bed. When i asked her about it she looked me straight in the eye, and with utter contempt said 'i dont want to wear anything you buy me, and i dont want to go anywhere with you, ever!' I just saw red and smacked her. It scares me sometimes the hate that boils up inside me. I just feel so wretched over her. Shes been like this for years and weve tried everything we can think of. I have great relationships with my partner and other two dcs. I just feel like she ruins everything. She hates me and nothing i do seems to change that. I dread coming home from work and often stay late because I know there'll be trouble as soon as i walk in. I cant live like this for the next seven or whatever years.
How do you learn to live with someone who hates you?

Your daughter is about to go through a huge transition. My DD is 12 and in year 7 and is going through similar now. She was OK in year 6 and probably at her loveliest. We have always been close but she is my first and there is an element of fraught in both DH's and my parenting. DH clashes with her a lot because they are quite similar. I am more of good cop but that doesn't help because it sends mixed messages but I can't always go with DH because I can see his approach doesn't help.

She always has been quite highly strung, even as a baby - very unsettled. I think that is just her, not anything she has done but sometimes we have reacted to it in the wrong way and made things worse. I think that perhaps this is the dynamic going on here, too.

Things I would change if your DD were mine are perhaps some of the suggestions above but what works for us the most is me talking to DD when calm and trying not to overreact myself. NOT easy. For example, tonight, she was going off on one because DS was annoying her and she was at the computer. I usually try to get her away from expensive equipment because she tends to break things in anger. In the end, I could see me trying to get the computer off her was counterproductive and, instead, I gave her a stern warning that, if she broke it, she would pay. She knew I would be prepared to follow through because I have done so recently. The upshot was that she calmed down very quickly and came down to apologise, give me a hug and say she still loved me. Unfortunately, had DH been here, there would have been a stand off and the situation would have escalated and she would have got more angry, leading to a not so good an outcome. The problem DH has is that she must do as she is told at all costs and, of course, she just digs her heels in even more. My opinion is you need to let the small things go so that they are more likely to listen when you deal with the big things. Reading this, I can see a bit of DH here but correct me if I'm wrong. It's hard to just go on someone's post.

We do get the refusing to come on trips. I think that's quite normal. I don't know how stubborn your DD is but, normally, we make her come and she snaps out of it (eventually) and ends up having a nice time. I expect this to get more difficult, though. I would definitely not leave her for a whole day at this age. Far too young. I would also let the little things like clothing etc go but I agree with you about not letting her out filthy. I still do DD's hair for her, too, but this is because she asks me to and I figure it won't be forever so go with it.

Just wanted to add in support of you, a lot of the posts are very child centred. Nothing wrong with that but your feelings are still important and she needs to start taking responsibility for that. Some of her behaviour may be like going back to toddlerhood but she's not a baby this time. You cannot have the entire house held to ransom with her moods even if she is having a tough time. She needs boundaries about that and they are really good for her - and you. Children want us to tell them that. Even DD tells me if I'm not strict enough, go figure!

But likewise, it's not the case of you choosing to hit. It really isn't about choice at all

So it is OK for a man to hit a woman if she really annoys him?

Every abuser says, "She made me do it". No she fucking didn't.

OP, I am not having a go at you - you recognise you crossed a line here and you are seeking help. But I am appalled at posters minimising the hitting of a child.

We are responsible for our actions. If you hit someone, you are choosing to hit them, no matter how emotional you may feel.

Funny how people always seem to be able to refrain from hitting anybody likely to thump them back harder/call the police. When they "just snap", it is always with someone weaker or unlikely to report them.

I don't think it's OK that OP smacked her daughter but, from what I'm reading , that was all it was. She didn't knock seven bells out of her and she immediately regretted it and realised she needed another approach. I think some of the responses her on this are a bit ott, tbh

shinynewusername I totally agree.
I think many of the posts are too sympathetic towards the OP.
If a man came on here saying he had slapped his wife he wouldn't ( and rightly so) get any sympathy.

I am a carer for my elderly disabled mother. She has a learning difficulty and sometimes mood swings.
I do get very frustrated at times. She can be challenging and downright mean.
If I gave my 84 year old mother a slap in rage would I get sympathy too?

Op you're getting upset because an adult on a forum has interpreted your feelings in a way you feel is unfair. (21.57 post). And yet you don't seem to realise you are doing the exact same thing to your own daughter.

And please stop mentally comparing how she is to her siblings. Firstly it's irrelevant because they aren't her. Secondly anyone who grew up hearing that line won't take it as proof it's all your dds fault, and not you. Thirdly as long as you have that mindset, you won't truly look for improvements in yourself. But most importantly, your dd will know that's how you think.

Op, yanbu to feel how you feel. Living with a child who constantly rejects your care and tries to control the household through her moods is utterly exhausting. How is she with school? her father?
She has just learnt just how far she can push you. This may not be a bad thing, but it does sound as though she may have a mood disorder, and may need professional help.
Like others I would suggest picking your battles, and calling her bluff. So, no underwear, no holiday clothes, if she refuses to wear it, you refuse to buy it. Being horrible to siblings equals no internet connection for 24 hrs. She is stuck with you, you are stuck with her, you don't always have to like each other. Try not to let her moods control you, try to help her to control them.

I'm not so much disgusted by the response to op hitting her, because op has admitted it was wrong. What really disgusts me is the attitude that emotionally abusing your child isn't even on the abuse radar, because it's oh so hard to be a mother.

Is there any chance she's displacing anger from bullying or abuse?

She sounds horribly lost. I can imagine how awful it is to deal with her but you must not become emotionally distant. It'll do untold damage. You need to come back to her. Or you will lose your child as soon as she's old enough to leave you. Or, she'll stay in touch and tell you nothing about her life.

You can turn this around. You can. It may need intervention, but still.

Emma, none of us have a manual, we're all making it up as we go along. Sometimes we get it right, and that makes the 'shit' seem less shitty. Two 'tricks' I learnt with my reluctant washer and hair brusher - I had a Mum to Mum chat with her bf's Mum, (I went over and over in my mind what I wanted to say and how to say it), but effectively asked if she could talk to dd about her appearance and her reluctance to change her undies. I didn't ask what was said or how it was said, I also didn't say anything when dd changed her smelly habit almost over night. Regarding the hair - ignore, ignore, ignore - if the school need her hair to be neat and tidy then that is for them to instill that rule. It's not your rule (or it shouldn't be). It's hard to separate yourself from your child, my eldest is now 23 and I still want to insist she puts a coat on when it's cold (I bite my tongue). Remember all those people who judge YOU, because your dd walks outside looking like tramp or a hooker - yep - borrowed my high heeled boots and teamed them with short shorts and a strappy t-shirt to sit her English GSCE - have no idea what you're going through, and until or unless they can walk a mile in your shoes should be be totally ignored. (In my experience most parents I know feel "there, but for the Grace of God etc) .

It does sound like you, your OH and your daughter would benefit from family therapy, because you might end up with another seven years of hell; but having emerged from that hell, my only advice would be choose your battles carefully, because the pain they cause both to you and your dd can be everlasting.

If I had ever behaved like that, I would have been told to go to my room and come out when I thought I was fit to rejoin humankind. Not that I ever did. Sorry but I think all that needs to be "unpicked" here is the incredibly rude behaviour of a child (and I don't think you need a professional to do that).

You say there was a lack of bonding in the early years.

I suggest your dd has attachment issues and a lack of self esteem. Personal grooming is linked to esteem.

When a child doesn't attach completely they feel unsafe and to regain control will challenge adults in order to have some power over their life and safety.

What you need to do is a. get family therapy and b. work on attachment. Allow her to have choices and feel like she is in control. Be angry with the behaviour but not the child. Forgive her for her behaviour, you know it comes from a place of anxiety. Make sure you tell her you love her. Make her life as structured and safe feeling as possible.

I have this to a certain extent with my 10yr old son, it is very challenging.

I'd like to know how to send a child of that age to their room when they won't go, i end up stripping back privilege after privilege until there is nothing left and he still doesn't care or has a tantrum.

You need her seen to now because personalities solidify in adolesence. But problems can be resolved in childhood in a way they can't be so easily resolved in adulthood.

polly I don't punish. never have. For me it's not about "stripping back privileges " or sending to a room. It doesn't work like that in our house.
we have a completely different approach to family life.

I'm an eldest daughter and hated my mother, thought she preferred my sister, and I was determined to favour my own eldest child. Didn't happen. Nature makes sure we favour the new baby. Don't treat your children equally! You can love them all equally but each will often need you to give them more time than the others. Your other children won't suffer (probably won't notice) if you give your eldest child the lion's share of your time for a while.
I too had bonding issues with my eldest DD and it took many years to feel close to her but I'm her mother so I kept trying until the feeling of love was real.
Nothing wrong with brushing her hair, that's a lovely thing to do
Be kind to yourself and be kind to her. It'll take time but you'll get there

Polly when managing my son with ASD as a large teen my solution to him not going to his room was always to remove myself letting him know that when he was ready to be reasonable/apologise/talk about things he needed to knock on my door.Perhaps it could work for your son too.

OP, it was not the personal grooming reference I found shocking, as I think I made clear, but the shocking taste comment- and this you have still not explained.

Emma I feel for you and I think many of the posters who have replied to you have been unfairly judgemental and too harsh, a few have been damn right rude and you don't deserve that.

Firstly, well done for being so open and honest with the way you feel and for asking for advice. My sister's eldest daughter sounds exactly like your daughter. She's 20 now. She was four when her brother was born and seven when her younger sister arrived. She's always described the days they were born as the worst days of her life. She's always said she wishes she was an only child because she hates them. My sister and her husband had a terrible time with her from the age of 11 until she was 18. Back chatting was the least of their worries, she would 'tell' them she was going out and literally walk out of the door! My sister put her on the pill at 13 because she was afraid of her getting pregnant. She wouldn't follow any rules, often stated she wanted to be taken in to care so she didn't have to live with them because she hated them. She would hit her siblings and as she grew taller than my sister she would be very aggressive towards her too. She even told the school they hit her, which resulted in them having to attend a meeting with the school and social services, throughout the meeting she smirked at them. My sister had many many times feeling exactly the same as you. They've never been able to work out why she has behaved like she has and they've tried all manner of things to support her, bond with her etc... Only now at the age of almost 20 has she started behaving like a normal, respectful, pleasant person.

I know this story doesn't help you in any way to solve your situation but I just wanted you to know you're not alone.

I haven't read all replies so sorry if I'm repeating someone else. My DD is exceptionally challenging, very similar , felt hated, treading on eggshells, constant arguments. I spent months fighting then tried a different tactic - I'm only in week 2 so might be short term but from every day it's an improvement! Do not bite back , spend time noticing anything good she does and I mean anything however tiny, say your impressed with XYZ and your proud of her, lots of it's so lovely spending time with you without arguing etc. Then whenever DD begins to melt down I do not rise at all even if she is being very directly rude, swearing etc I just say something to remind her of how good things were such as " we have been getting on so well I know you don't hate me, I love you" then leave her to calm. I have rewarded her for all the good things with tickets to see something. Honestly it sounds stupid but give it a go , DD is older (15) but we have had 5 years stuck in a negative spiral never knew it would be so simple to break! DD now asks to spend time with me , makes suggestions, is being helpful without being asked, considerate, kind and apologises after an outburst- all completely unheard of before!

Some book suggestions from A Mighty Girl

www.amightygirl.com/blog?p=10003

OP, I echo what many others have said to you. Family therapy could be really helpful for you and individual therapy for you to help you process everything also. Ideally also therapy for your dd to help her process her feelings. We have been in family therapy for over a year now with our daughter (although other siblings have also been involved at times).

Like you, I would have said that there is no way any abuse could have happened because we were really careful, etc. Turns out my dd was bullied by some children and sexually abused by one child at primary school. She didn't tell us but she did feel extremely angry with us for not knowing. I would have sworn this could not have happened to my child - until I realised it did.

So actually abuse is possible - although I am not saying it is likely, just possible. it is also possible your child has mental health issues. Or is just a difficult personality. Or hates being a child and dependent. Or has a personality clash with you. Or is traumatised by your failure to bond and pnd. Or any number of things.

You need to treat it seriously and look for help outside the family so you can do something to change this dynamic. One thing that made a huge difference with our child was that she saw we were utterly committed to family therapy and making our relationship better and her happier. Nothing deviated us from this purpose. No matter how awful the previous session was, we showed up for the next one. And learned an awful lot about her but also about listening/prioritising/showing love.

Another thing I think you should consider is turning over all disciplinary stuff to her father for a while. You could support him but he would be the one saying "no ipad" or whatever. At least that would get you out of the firing line and make it easier for you to just show love/affection.

I don't know why your daughter is miserable as sin, with self esteem set somewhere below zero, but that's how she sounds. Maybe it's bullying. Maybe it's a personality clash. Maybe it's because she's never really felt close to you. Maybe she has an underlying diagnosis. Maybe you do. We don't know. But whatever the cause, if she is indeed miserable as sin with no self esteem, she isn't going to be able to just sort this out.

So you need to. And yes, I get it, you're miserable as sin too. But you had, and have, choices that she did not. As I once told my parents "I didn't ask to be born" (translated to I didn't ask to be bullied every school day). Neither did she. You made those choices, and now you're landed with a bad situation. Please, get some help.

She doesn't hate you, she's struggling with the challenges of growing up. Give her space, time, emotional warmth and kindness and you'll get there together.

Give yourself a break - don't take her comments to heart.

Do not physically assault your DD, there is never ever an excuse for this.

I have an 11 year old Dd too. Your post could actually be me writing. My Dd openly tries to get me to stay behind if Dh wants to have a family day out. She looks at and talks to me like Ive crawled out from under a rock. She calls me the fun sponge

She is Dd2, I have a 20 year old also, so Ive been here before. I know it does actually get better after years and years. I deal with it by ignoring most of it and just pulling her up when she gets really rude or hurtful. I dont sweat the small stuff, let her decide what to wear, how to do her hair etc dresses in black, multi coloured VERY short hair.

Its the hormones, they are just striking earlier. The 14 year old behavior just starts at 10 or 11 now. She can be horrible but I DO know it will be better eventually

That and the fact so far she isnt a patch on Dd1 and as I survived her sister, I WILL survive her hopefully she does too