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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel this way about my daughter?

270 replies

emmamaw · 29/06/2016 11:44

I'm sitting here crying like a baby over my 11yo dd. I struggle to say dd - as in dear daughter. We've never really been close. Shes the eldest of 3 and often says she wishes she'd stayed an only child. She hates her younger brother (8) and often loses patience and snaps at her baby sister (3). I think she hates me too. The way she speaks to us all is dreadful. I know children are self-centered but she really has no care or consideration for anyone in this house. Every day I wake up dreading what mood shes going to be in. All she cares about is going on the phone/tablet/pc to talk to her best friend and watch videos. I know thats probably pretty normal but if anything gets in the way of that the whole household suffers. If she doesnt want to go somewhere she will purposefully ruin the whole day. We sometimes have to leave her behind when we do day trips etc. just so that the other dc dont miss out. Its like she hates the world around her and wants everyone to know it. Shes always saying she wishes she could go and live with her best friends family, and I truly believe she means it.
This morning I said we would go to town after school, just the two of us, to buy her holiday clothes, as she says she hates what I buy for her and really kicks off if I make her wear them. She shrugged her shoulders and said 'whatever'. Then i found some new underwear I'd bought her hidden behind her bed. When i asked her about it she looked me straight in the eye, and with utter contempt said 'i dont want to wear anything you buy me, and i dont want to go anywhere with you, ever!' I just saw red and smacked her. It scares me sometimes the hate that boils up inside me. I just feel so wretched over her. Shes been like this for years and weve tried everything we can think of. I have great relationships with my partner and other two dcs. I just feel like she ruins everything. She hates me and nothing i do seems to change that. I dread coming home from work and often stay late because I know there'll be trouble as soon as i walk in. I cant live like this for the next seven or whatever years.
How do you learn to live with someone who hates you?

OP posts:
plimsolls · 29/06/2016 16:12

I think some posters are missing the fact that the OP says she believes it has been this way for a long time.

Focusing on hormonal teens is probably not helpful. Aside from the fact it is putting the "blame" on the child, it is also not the relevant factor.

Agree things may get even worse as DD becomes more hormonal, but the issue appears much more deep rooted.

OP, as I said in previous post (and have many others) seek professional help for yourself and then your family.

There's no shame, it's a strong thing to ask for help.
Good luck.

VimFuego101 · 29/06/2016 16:13

Sad to see some of the responses here.

OP - you don't say much about her relationship with your partner. Is he her father? How does she treat him?

Hippee · 29/06/2016 16:19

Hi - I could have witten your post about 9 year-old DS1 - oldest of three. He regularly asks if we can get rid of DS2 and DD. He's always been like this and it's getting worse. I can count the minutes of peace each day that we get each day - it's the difference between him waking up and his brother and sister waking up. I can't remember my last happy day as a parent. We just don't know what to do with him, as he now just refuses to do anything that he doesn't want to. He gets far more treats than the others (and far more punishments) - he doesn't seem to have any concept of cause and effect and is incapable of seeing things from anyone's point of view than his own (unless it's an abstract situation like racism or homophobia, which he gets very cross about). I feel like we are damaging him, because life is so negative - it's hard to let things go when it involves hurting his siblings or throwing things around the house.

lastminute1 · 29/06/2016 16:21

OP,
sorry for some of the responses you got. You sound very stressed.
But where's her dad/your partner? He's totally missing from your picture. I am lucky to have a lovely adorable DS but his dad has always been very tough on discipline and has never even allowed a long face, let alone a rude reply. You and your partner need to work together.

corythatwas · 29/06/2016 16:27

I think there could well be a number of issues combining here:

long-standing difficulty in bonding that might not be anybody's fault, but definitely needs addressing

hormones

possibly dd has a difficult personality/some kind of behavioural difficulty

mother struggles to distinguish between normal parental discipline and imposing her own ideas for the sake of it

mother struggles to distinguish between actual bad behaviour (which she should clamp down on) and emotional rejection (which should not be considered punishable)

All adding up to a situation where dd does not feel good about herself, and makes life very difficult for everybody else. I don't think it is necessary to identify one single culprit in this- but since the OP can only change what she does the only advice we can give her will naturally be about what she could do. Pp have already identified a number of things that can and should be done:

consider family therapy

consider parenting classes- don't look at it as "you've done everything wrong and need to learn how to be a parent" but rather as "handy tips on how to deal with a particularly difficult situation"

be strict about actual bad behaviour (violence towards siblings, name calling etc)- and above all be consistent

back off a little bit with things that either do not matter (clothes choice) or where the dd may not at the moment be able to give what the OP would like (emotional closeness)

We found family therapy very helpful because it was a safe and non-judgmental space where we could all be honest about our frustrations.

FarAwayHills · 29/06/2016 16:36

What a horrible situation OPFlowers

I think you have to stop taking your DDs behaviour personally. She is an 11 year old child lashing out for whatever reason and unfortunately as her mum you are baring the brunt of it. It sounds like she is growing up fast and wants some independence. Can you agree some new 'grown up' boundaries going forward regarding clothes, hair, screen time etc.?

semideponent · 29/06/2016 16:53

Phone/tablet/PC - when we limited 10 and 13yo dc to only 2 hrs a day absolute max, same time every day, some of the issues you mentioned (mood swings, defiance) improved - but only after an absolutely hellish couple of weeks.

Perhaps it would help you too? If you think about doing it, definitely get DP on side and be prepared to take out the router lead.

Enkopkaffetak · 29/06/2016 16:55

OP Re the hair issue. I had similar with dd3 I sat her down and said to her

If you want to do your hair you have to do it to a standard that is acceptable to me. This means no knots and no matting plus washing at a minimum twice a week. If you do this I will not comment if you don't I will comment and intervene. It took her a couple of months to get it but now she washes and brushes and ties back as needed to a standard I can tolerate (not I said tolerate not really to how I would prefer it but tolerate is ok)

Try that with her.

I agree let her pick her clothing. DD3 has hugely different taste to her older sisters who i can pick clothing for and they will like. I can only very rarely do that for dd3 (age 12) so I now ask before getting her anything. It feels like a triumph when I have found something she would like.

If it is inappropritate in form of age then tell her so. Just say "I feel you are to young to wear this so I am not going to buy it" However if she wants to wear a T shirt with some slogan on you don't like. as long as it is not offensive let her do so. Same with jeans or skirts etc..

minifingerz · 29/06/2016 17:03

"Nutshell: anyone who can't understand how someone might snap under stress has likely never had to deal with anything on this scale. Or they are.superhuman, in which case, hats off, but the rest of us do not compare"

Hear hear. As a parent I have been pushed beyond what I'm able to endure. I'm a strong and tolerant person but my dd brought me to the verge of an emotional breakdown after three years of telling me she hated me almost every day, trashing my room, emotionally and physically abusing her younger siblings, being physically violent towards me and DH, stealing from us, lying, refusing to cooperate with the simplest request, laughing in my face if I showed distress, stirring up conflict between me and my mother, trying to set DH and I against each other, emotionally dominating every single aspect of family life. Did I feel hatred towards her? Yes, sometimes. And I raised a hand to her once or twice despite believing with every fibre of my being that smacking is wrong and never having smacked her prior to the age of 11. No history of delayed bonding, just a normal very very loving happy and affectionate childhood.

Sometimes children's behaviour is IMPOSSIBLE. The constant mantra of 'get help' was a feature of this time, but you know, it only really got better once dd was diagnosed with a serious mental health condition, and by the time this happened she'd grown out of much of the antipathy towards me. Her anger mostly just dissipated as her hormones calmed down.

Telling someone who is struggling to cope brilliantly and calmly with a child's extremely challenging and upsetting behaviour that 'they're the problem' is deeply unfair. It may be that the dd's behaviour is a response to feeling unloved, but really none of us know.

TheNotoriousPMT · 29/06/2016 17:07

"I make extra effort... Its thrown back in my face."

I think it's not so much that she's ungrateful, as that she's testing you. Your dd knows how you feel about her. Poor girl. Then you do something nice, and part of her is thrilled but part of her is scared it won't last. She doesn't want to be hurt again so she tests you to see if you really mean it. And she finds out you don't.

You might think she has to meet you halfway, but you are the adult and she is 11. You have the power in this situation. You will have to do the majority of the work to fix this. And 'fix this' sounds like you need to do an entire rebuild of the family dynamic - one shopping trip won't cut it. As pp said, you'd be better off with professional help to do this.

Re: her hair. Maybe you can solve it by letting her choose her own cut, even if that's a short-all-over pixie cut. Stop being rude about her taste in clothes.

I could well be very far off base here, but if an adult was moody and irritable, happy to stay in alone, and not looking after their personal hygiene, I 'd wonder if they might be depressed. Especially if I knew they were unhappy at home.

BTW, the reason she snaps at her little brother and sister is because she knows you prefer them to her.

Don't ever hit her again.

AllegraWho · 29/06/2016 17:39

You punched a door (injuring yourself, or risking it) to avoid striking your daughter. OP deliberately hit her own child as she was overcome with hatred for her and saw red.

Yup, I smashed my hand too, but the fact is that what I really wanted to do was hit my daughter. I didn't read OP and think I was better than her because I managed to deflect.this desperate rage to an inanimate object/ myself. I thought "there but for the grace..."

See, I was lucky. I was lucky that I did not have a MH condition that would have impaired my ability to cope or my self control; that I used to have a decent bond with her when she was little as I didn't have PND; that I didn't have any other children that would have been affected by her behaviour.

OP, yout daughter's behaviour does not sound anywhere near as severe as my DD's was, so it might well be that family therapy and rebuilding your relationship is all that it will take to solve this.

But whichever way it is, children do not this because they hate us, or because they are evil. They do it because they are hurting and want us to help.

BTW, like minifingerz, with my DD it was also down to a serious MH condition.

shinynewusername · 29/06/2016 17:39

Sad for you both. You need urgent help. You hit her and you have minimised it by blaming her for being rude. You didn't "just see red" - you are responsible for your actions and you made a choice to hit her. Would it be OK for your DH/DP to hit you if you were rude to him? And, from your OP, it doesn't sound as this was a one-off. You are assaulting someone much and weaker than you, who is completely in your power. This is totally wrong.

You feel hate for her (which is not the same as hating her). She knows this. She resents her siblings because you love them in a way you do not love her. Can't you see that she is desperately unhappy?

You can break this cycle. Get professional help. Make a GP appointment today and ask for a CAMHS referral. If you can afford it, find out about private counselling. And it needs to be family counselling, not centred only on your DD. Her behaviour is a symptom of feeling totally alienated from you as a family. You can break this cycle if you all work together.

shouldbeworking123 · 29/06/2016 17:39

I just want to say that my daughter was extremely difficult from early to late teens and is also the eldest. Retrospectively I wish that we had tried family counselling during this time - it may well have helped. I think she struggled massively with being expected to be mature and sensible and I did want her to be more helpful than she was at the time. Eventually I discovered the best way to deal with her tantrums was to totally ignore them and not react - that way her vicious (and they were) words bounced around the room and she had nothing to shout back at about as I hadn't said anything. She then was forced to think about what she had just said rather than react to a response from me. The good news is that she completely outgrew this behaviour and we are very close now.

Findmuck · 29/06/2016 17:40

You're not alone OP. I feel for you, I really do. I went through similar. I don't think your daughter hates you, she most probably hates herself. With my experience of this and with hindsight I'd say be calm, kind and try ( very hard I know) not to take this personally.

This too will pass and access whatever support you can to get through this, be it talking to non judgemental friends/relatives. Try to develop and maintain communication between you and your daughter.
You're doing your best OP. You are human and have feelings. I got through it and you will too. My daughter is now 25, we aren't close but I live in hope. We respect and love each other and in my book that will do for me.

People can offer advice and their perspective but until they've been through it shouldn't judge you.
For you OP Flowers

GabsAlot · 29/06/2016 17:44

i only needed to wash my hair once a week whe i was that age everyones different and why does it have t0 be acceptable to you is not your hair

AllegraWho · 29/06/2016 17:49

BTW, the reason she snaps at her little brother and sister is because she knows you prefer them to her.

Maybe. Or maybe it's because when someone is desperately hurting, they often lash out at those they love the most.

BillSykesDog · 29/06/2016 17:59

This child is being scapegoated and emotionally and physically abused. Can't believe so many posters are minimising it and insisting giving your child the odd smack is okay.

OP, you need to go to your GP and admit honestly what is happening including the hitting and excluding and feelings of dislike going back to infancy. You really need some help and your DD needs support.

If your DD confides in someone outside the family what is happening it will be worse for you than if you ask for help yourself - what you've done is illegal.

As an aside, I find a lot of the attitudes on MN really shocking when it comes to abuse. The threshold for an adult female being abused is set so low that apparently bickering about beetroot is abuse. Yet when men or children are on the receiving end of abuse from women they're mocked or told they were asking for it or that it's normal and no big deal. It just disgusts me.

shinynewusername · 29/06/2016 18:23

The threshold for an adult female being abused is set so low that apparently bickering about beetroot is abuse. Yet when men or children are on the receiving end of abuse from women they're mocked or told they were asking for it or that it's normal and no big deal. It just disgusts me

Well said. The first step re-educating abusers is to get them to recognise that they are responsible for their actions and that they haven't been violent because someone else made them do it. I am absolutely appalled at the posters who have minimised the OP's actions or put it down to the DD's hormones - again blaming the victim.

Is it OK to hit a pregnant woman? Is it OK to hit a woman with PND? Is it OK to hit a woman with PMT? No? Then why the fuck is apparently OK with some of you to hit an 11 year old, whether she is hormonal or not? Foul.

ScrewyMcScrewup · 29/06/2016 18:53

This child is being scapegoated and emotionally and physically abused. Can't believe so many posters are minimising it and insisting giving your child the odd smack is okay.

Totally. Really shocked that the OP is getting such an easy ride when others would be lambasted for far less.

OP, get help. For you as well as your poor daughter.

JessicaRabbit3 · 29/06/2016 18:58

I do believe there are child who have contempt for their parents and others for no valid reason. Have you ever read ' We need to talk about Kevin?' He had similar traits as you described. He had a very sad ending, not saying she's capable of such things but I do believe people who lack remorse and empathy can show these in very earlier childhood. Has she always been like this OP or was that a particular event which triggered her behaviour?

Bluemoon49 · 29/06/2016 19:14

children do not this because they hate us, or because they are evil. They do it because they are hurting and want us to help.

Exactly. I really believe that when anyone lashes out, old or young, it is usually because they are unhappy and in pain. It sounds like your DD is struggling with how to deal with her emotions. I was very similar when I was a young teen. When something didn't work out the way I wanted I didn't know how to deal with it, and I remember ruining whole days because once I had lashed out and caused trouble I didn't know how to get out of the cycle. I often found it hard to back down and say sorry, so instead pretended that I wasn't sorry and followed through with the disruptive behaviour. It's difficult for me to explain but what I'm trying to say is that it wasn't because I was evil and seriously wanted to hurt everyone around me, it was just because I didn't know how to deal with my emotions and once I had handled things in the wrong way i.e lashing out/shouting/being rude, I didn't know how to say sorry and move on, so I felt I had to carry on the bad behaviour. You, as my mum did, are seeing this behaviour as 'evil' and deliberate, seeing your DD as someone who is out to wreck your life rather than someone who is hurting and needs your help and love.

She is your daughter! You should love her unconditionally no matter what and you should make sure she knows this. Making comments about her personal grooming/dress sense just implies that you are judging her which will make her feel terrible. You should be constantly reaffirming to her that she is beautiful and loved, and you certainly shouldn't be hitting her. You are treating her like a problem, like someone who is ruining your life.

Although I know my mum loves me, she often made me feel this way when I was growing up. Although I wasn't as bad as your DD I did suffer with anxiety and I was often very rude and horrible to her (although I do think this is normal for teenagers) and I can relate to your DD's behaviour in terms of ruining days out. My mum often made me feel that I hadn't lived up to her expectation of what having a child would be like. She did this by making comments like yours, in fact you sound quite like her. She constantly focused on how I affected her, how my actions and even my issues with anxiety made things difficult for her. I was left with the strong impression that she saw me as a problem and I was a disappointment. That is a horrible feeling and that is how you risk making your daughter feel. The attitude you express in your post seems similar to the one I have described, in particular your last comment - "how can you learn to live with someone who hates you?" You should be thinking about how you can help your daughter, not how you can 'deal' with her. She will pick up on the fact that you see her as a problem to be dealt with and this will make her feel unloved and worthless, which will cause the nasty behaviour.

If you take anything from this thread please realise that your daughter is not evil, she is not trying to hurt you, she is not constantly plotting how to ruin your life (as my mum once accused me of doing when I was a teen!) - she is hurting! You can't imagine how horrible it is to feel that your parents look at you and feel disappointed in you.

The only message your child should ever get from you is that you love them more than anything else in the world and you see them as beautiful, no matter what they do. From what you've said, you are giving your DD lots of messages and this isn't one of them.

Now, after that long and harsh lecture I'm going to say that I do understand how hard it is and how you must be feeling. It's not easy to hear that it's your fault. This is something I know my mum struggled with - I suspect this was because she couldn't deal with anything being her fault, which is understandable. But when it comes to being a parent you do have to take responsibility for how you make your child feel. I'm not saying that the way she is behaving is your fault - people can suffer with anxiety and behavioural issues regardless of upbringing. But the way you are dealing with it is wrong. For a start, some of your DD's behaviour is normal for teenagers, and smacking her was an overreaction. Some of her behaviour may be a sign that she needs professional help to deal with her emotions, but what she needs most of all is your love and reassurance that all you see when you look at her is your beautiful daughter. I understand this is difficult when you don't feel that, and you also may need professional help to deal with your feelings.

Like others, I was a bit confused about why you haven't given more information or replied with your thoughts about what's been said. It has just occurred to me that you may be upset at the harsh and frank comments you have had, and if that's the case I'm sorry. You came on here to ask for help and support and I think most people are trying to provide that for you. Please don't feel downhearted at the comments, but maybe try to take them on board and think about what you can do differently. I understand this is very hard and you may need outside help to do this, but at least think about it!

I don't agree with a previous poster that you have "failed your kids". You need a bit of help with how to deal with the situation but that's understandable. You are in a very difficult position and it's often hard to think straight, which is why you need the impartial down-to-earth comments from mumsnet! Please try to take on board the advice and try to see things from your DDs perspective. Fight her nastiness with love! No matter how horrible she comes across, that is what she wants deep down. She may not change immediately or even acknowledge your love, but persevere. It will be noticed, even if she doesn't let on! Remember that it's not cool for teenagers to show love to their parents and its often hard for them. I think it's unrealistic to expect young people to act like fully grown adults who can take responsibility for their actions, consider other people's feelings, say sorry, admit they were wrong, deal with things in a calm and controlled way - she's 11. She hasn't mastered these skills yet and she may need some help. She's not an adult, she's a confused pre-teen - so treat her like one!

insan1tyscartching · 29/06/2016 19:14

Jessica you do realise that "We need to talk about Kevin" is fiction don't you? Hmm

MatildaTheCat · 29/06/2016 19:17

OP, consider talking to Young Minds for some advice. We cannot tell here if your dd has a problem with her mental health, an underlying condition such as ASD or simply a difficult relationship with you. The Explosive Child by Phillip Greene is said to be very useful.

Speak to your GP about the situation and if nothing else perhaps consider asking for counselling for yourself. Do consider your other family relationships which you haven't divulged. What is the dynamic between her and your dh, for example?

I think you are right to require certain standards of self care. She can brush her own hair but it needs to be done well enough. Clothes clean and regular showers. Poor hygiene does indicate poor self esteem or mental health.

Re clothing it is tricky. She is too young to go into town alone with cash to select clothes. Could she either go with another adult or chose from a catalogue/ website? Was the underwear more about growing up? I refused to wear a bra for ages after DM bought me one. I just hated puberty and wanted it to go away. I was especially awful to my poor dad.

Do try to have the conversation where by you both agree to listen and try to make things better but I definitely think you could do with some more specialist help.

Ps. Other than on mumsnet almost everyone has smacked their child once or twice and then felt crap about it. It's when you don't feel utterly shit you have a problem. Say sorry, move on and don't repeat. Flowers

BillSykesDog · 29/06/2016 19:18

Jessica, you do realise that's fiction don't you?

Besides, the arguments you are using are the sorts of arguments that 30 years ago used to be used to justify hitting women: some of them push you to it, they deserve it, their personality justifies it. It's all bullshit.

Every child deserves to have a safe home where they do not have to fear being hit or hurt. No child deserves this.

BillSykesDog · 29/06/2016 19:23

This isn't a toddler who's been smacked in extremis because they can't verbally reason. It's an 11 year old who has been assaulted by a mother who admits she can't control her anger against her child and against a background of what sounds very much like emotional abuse.