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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel this way about my daughter?

270 replies

emmamaw · 29/06/2016 11:44

I'm sitting here crying like a baby over my 11yo dd. I struggle to say dd - as in dear daughter. We've never really been close. Shes the eldest of 3 and often says she wishes she'd stayed an only child. She hates her younger brother (8) and often loses patience and snaps at her baby sister (3). I think she hates me too. The way she speaks to us all is dreadful. I know children are self-centered but she really has no care or consideration for anyone in this house. Every day I wake up dreading what mood shes going to be in. All she cares about is going on the phone/tablet/pc to talk to her best friend and watch videos. I know thats probably pretty normal but if anything gets in the way of that the whole household suffers. If she doesnt want to go somewhere she will purposefully ruin the whole day. We sometimes have to leave her behind when we do day trips etc. just so that the other dc dont miss out. Its like she hates the world around her and wants everyone to know it. Shes always saying she wishes she could go and live with her best friends family, and I truly believe she means it.
This morning I said we would go to town after school, just the two of us, to buy her holiday clothes, as she says she hates what I buy for her and really kicks off if I make her wear them. She shrugged her shoulders and said 'whatever'. Then i found some new underwear I'd bought her hidden behind her bed. When i asked her about it she looked me straight in the eye, and with utter contempt said 'i dont want to wear anything you buy me, and i dont want to go anywhere with you, ever!' I just saw red and smacked her. It scares me sometimes the hate that boils up inside me. I just feel so wretched over her. Shes been like this for years and weve tried everything we can think of. I have great relationships with my partner and other two dcs. I just feel like she ruins everything. She hates me and nothing i do seems to change that. I dread coming home from work and often stay late because I know there'll be trouble as soon as i walk in. I cant live like this for the next seven or whatever years.
How do you learn to live with someone who hates you?

OP posts:
Tigerwyatt · 30/06/2016 22:42

I just wanted to send you a hug. I don't have any answers and I have a 10 year-old who sounds pretty similar at times and it's so hard and testing. I don't know when it will get better, but it will do. You're her mum. I remember being a nightmare for mine and she's my best friend now.

Don't beat yourself up. Girls are tough. Love bomb week sounds good. I shout 'strawberries' or 'bananas' at mine when she's being a madam and it usually diffuses the situation because it's so ridiculous.

I've also tried to stop saying no unless I have a good reason, rather than just an automatic no.

I try to treat her fairly and to remember that positive reinforcement works far better than negative.

Big hugs xxx

tootsietoo · 30/06/2016 22:50

Wow AmyAmoeba, you have worked really really hard in finding a way forward with your DS. What you say about transitions is really true for us. Transitions from one activity or place to another are triggers for DD1 - she just doesn't seem to be able to cope at all. How do you manage them?

Funnily enough, whilst checking back on this thread for the last day or two I've had to deal with some serious tantrums (one choice quote: "you hate me, if you hate me so much why don't you just kill me") and knowing other people have the same problems has helped me so much to stay calm and we have come out the other side much better than usual.

So thanks for the thread OP

Yummymummy159 · 30/06/2016 22:51

This was me as a teenager. Didn't help that my mum was going through the change at the same time as I was hitting puberty - sometimes my dad would come home from work so sort out the mess of hormones poor man! I'd have gone to the local shop and bought 10 cigs thinking I was a rebel (when I was 15+ not at 11) and she would be crying in the kitchen. I ended up in the wrong crowd and we made up massively as something atrocious happened to me and she was completely there for me 100% and 5 years on she is one of the most important people in my life and we are super close. If I'm honest I could've done with a good slap to stop me being such a cow all the time. Give her the space she wants. As long as she has done her homework what's the issue in her going and chatting to her friends on the phone. Have a spa weekend, go get your nails done etc... Do something just you two. Bite your tongue at any backchat while you're out - she will test you and push the boundaries God knows I did. What's her relationship like with dad? REMEMBER THIS IS ONLY TEMPORARY! She will come out an amazing young lady with the Same values as you and adore you for putting up with her shit! Lord knows how you'll make it out alive it was like the hunger games for my mum but it's worth it when you see what she is like in 5 years time a lovely girl with these sudden amazing manners and a whole new respect for you.

Mycatsaninja · 30/06/2016 23:04

I too got an ASD vibe from reading your posts and I also have a son with ASD , now 20 . I have had very difficult times with him and very little support from DexH who wouldn't support me in keeping structure, boundaries etc. I also think it would be helpful for you to seek outside help/counselling , it certainly wouldn't do any harm . I would worry about giving too much freedom to an eleven year old with poor social skills etc and maybe a few well thought out boundaries would help her feel more secure .Its easy for others to give advice (me included) when we aren't in your situation . I do feel for you and empathise as my relationship with my son has been very fraught but it sounds like you are a good mum who is being stretched to her limit , and beyond . You need to look after yourself too as you won't be of any use to your DD or the rest of your family if your health suffers.
Be strong and don't be afraid to seek help OP www.mumsnet.com/emo/te/xthanks.png.pagespeed.ic.oE36IrFft1.png

a1poshpaws · 30/06/2016 23:15

I have horrible flashbacks, reading your post,to my own childhood, when it wasn't believed that young children could have serious mental health problems. I'm 63 now and have suffered bi-polar disorder since childhood. I hear echoes in your post. I think you should ask to have your daughter referred to at least a pschotherapist ,if not also a psychiatrist and psychologist. As an ex Social Worker, I also believe you yourself need the support of a child and family centre. Good luck.

a1poshpaws · 30/06/2016 23:16

ps don't forget, the Samaritans are there if you need an impartial and non-judgemental ear.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 30/06/2016 23:18

Lots of good advice here if you're able to keep open to it.

I would just mention about the personal care problems, things can be more complicated than they seem. For example that children cannot control much in their lives, but body control is there's, and slowly becoming more and more theirs as they grow up. Fights about bodies and appearance are likely about control and body autonomy, not just tangled hair!

Personal care is also about self esteem and self worth. And wanting to take care of yourself, or feeling like you are not worth it. Or that making yourself dirty or unattractive is a defense against the world.

Btw, I'm trying to learn how to take care of myself now, as a fully grown adult. Because of a very disturbed upbringing. Not making a comparison between you and my mother, as you don't deserve the vitriol (!), but an example of how personal care is a complex thing... For me it was about 1. my worth as a human being (or rather lack of), 2. privacy and bodily autonomy, and 3 a taking back of control in whatever way I could.

I also think now it was a way of breaking through all the family veneer of normality, a way to silently scream out my fear and desperation to see if anyone out there would help. Sadly they didn't, but I try and help myself now as an adult.

Your dd's situation doesn't seem like mine growing up, but I wonder if she's tapping into any of the same needs and concerns, albeit for different reasons?

My mother was (is) a deeply disturbed and horrible woman, who refused to give me any sense of self, identity, and my needs completely denied. I was the family scapegoat and was defined by my role in others lives vs as an actual person.

I internalized that message, from a very young age. I was nothing and no one, and I was worthless. In direct contrast to everyone else in the family. So how do you care for yourself when you know you are a revolting piece of scum with no rights to be considered equal to any other human being?

She also had no boundaries and made me very very uncomfortable with her refusing me any privacy or basic boundaries. By the time I was 10 I was avoiding anything to do with the bathroom or toilet as I was so effected by the enforced lack of privacy. I've never told anyone this but I used to pee in my room and sneak out in the early hours to pour it down the toilet. Just so I could get some privacy. I had to endure the forced hair washing and the painful hair dryer wielding, but in every way I could I pushed away any sense of my body.

Needless to say, my mother didn't have any clue about the results of her behavior. And wouldn't recognize any of this as a description of my life. Which is why I don't think you are similar to her, as she certainly wouldn't have sought out any advice or help in taking a different approach or perspective.

Good luck.

emmamaw · 30/06/2016 23:32

Just wanted to say thanks again for the new posts. Ive looked up some of the asd symptoms and whilst there are some similarities they are not exhaustive- which has only served to leave me more confused! Also thanks for the book recommendations xx

OP posts:
bumsexatthebingo · 30/06/2016 23:46

I've only read your posts op due to the length of the thread. It sounds like severe boundary pushing that has been allowed to escalate to me - also potentially an undiagnosed issue going on with your dd. It seems like her behaviour is causing you to dislike her and that is further fuelling the behaviour.
In your situation I would sit down with your dd when she is calm and tell her that you love her very much and how her behaviour is making you feel. I would then tell her from now on that electronics are going to be restricted to x amount of time a day and dependent on behaviour that day. This will be a motivator and also reduced time will likely help with the behaviour (there's a lot of evidence that excessive screen time adversely effects behaviour).
As there seem to be a lot of issues with behaviour I would decide which you feel is the most important one to tackle for now rather than trying to address everything at once. So if, for example, you decide shouting at the rest of the family is the biggest issue then if she can manage not to do it for a day she gets her electronics time for 1 hr after tea for eg. You need to follow through if she doesn't earn it. At the moment she is dictating your behaviour having you stay at work etc when you should be setting the tone for what is acceptable. I would praise her for showing the behaviour you want to see and tell her how nice it is to spend time with her when she does x so that she sees the natural consequence of behaving pleasantly as well as getting the reward. I imagine at the moment there isn't a lot of behaviour to praise but it will come.

bumsexatthebingo · 01/07/2016 00:02

Also meant to add that if you are aware of triggers for the behaviour then try to work on encouraging more appropriate alternative behaviours so for eg if she behaves poorly when she is upset/angry you could work on self calming strategies - breathing/activities that calm her etc. I would make sure you recognise that feeling emotions - anger/upset etc is perfectly normal but you choose how you behave. Recognise the emotions so "I can see you're really upset about that." and maybe suggest something that might help calm her or ask if you can help. She may just want to be left alone sometimes which is fine too.

GrandMarmoset · 01/07/2016 00:22

I'm so sorry. You sound like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. What a distressing situation for you all. I really think that if it is affecting the whole family and as puberty kicks in she will only become more difficult, ( they all do) it would be worth speaking to your GP about a referral for family therapy to break the patterns of behavior and frustration. It's not weak to seek help. It takes strength. Good luck. It must be horrible for you all.

SylvieB74 · 01/07/2016 02:46

Well here's a few of my thoughts on what you've said.

Firstly I feel so so sorry for you :( I've often wished the floor would just open up and swallow up my eldest. I was walking home from school with another mum one day who called her eldest daughter an r sole she'd had her to therapy (waste of time) some of our convo:

Her: I nearly punched her
Me: I did f ing punch her (about my daughter)
Her: yeah so did I ...

There was a 'super nanny' a few years ago with a girl who my mind keeps conjuring up when you describe your girl, I don't know if you'd be able to find it, she was called Megan.

I can't believe some of the comments people have said to you in here, you sound lovely, but don't forget at least half the general population are basically stupid, have you seen the news lately?!

Anyway, whatever the little sweetheart does, don't let her upset you and don't be scared of her. Stick to boundaries you've set no matter what.

StopWhateverUDoing · 01/07/2016 05:03

OP, I feel sorry for what you're going through.
Just a bit of practical advice on how to break the cycle, I was given by some psychologists here in Russia (different culture, but maybe it helps): wait till your DD is asleep for 15 minutes, then calmly tell her "I love you. You are the most important person in my life. I can't live without you. You are my dearest and closest."
She won't be able to throw you your love back this way :)

StopWhateverUDoing · 01/07/2016 05:28

Do that each day for a fortnight at least.
I use it whith my DS and it helps both of us. The author of the method is Drapkin

BastardGoDarkly · 01/07/2016 05:53

Sylvie that conversation you describe is awful?! You both punched your children??

FullOfChoc · 01/07/2016 07:07

My Dd is 11, we've had to do a tech/screen time detox for 10 days (it was u til behaviour became reasonable again) and that helped us reset boundaries and impose limits. We used as much of the time as we could for board games (even if only in half hour slots) and they did lots more reading. Do it now as I fear it will get worse as they get older.

pearlylum · 01/07/2016 07:13

*Her: I nearly punched her
Me: I did f ing punch her (about my daughter)
Her: yeah so did I ... *

That is horrific. Imagine if you were two men talking about your wives.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 01/07/2016 07:59

Amy your post is amazing Flowers

plimsolls · 01/07/2016 08:26

sylvie Have I misunderstood your post? Your friend called her daughter an arsehole and then you both punched your children?

If that's true, I'm shocked and I don't think that the OP should be particularly reassured by you telling her she sounds like a lovely person.

plimsolls · 01/07/2016 08:33

amy Really good advice in your post. I'm sorry professional help didn't work for you but all professionals are different and I don't think everyone should be discouraged from accessing it.

Also, OP, some of the professional help recommended to you has been therapeutic and/or counselling, for you individually and for your family. That's slightly different to some kinds of professional help (perhaps what Amy describes?) where they give you advice and strategies about managing behaviour.

user838383 · 01/07/2016 08:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rap12 · 01/07/2016 09:02

You need to see a doctor, this sounds out of control. Children need to respect their parents, which i know they do not always do , I have an 11 YO who if she has a rant she will always apologise afterwards, and expect a punishment for her behaviour.
you said your daughter is on the computer a lot, is the computer in her room? (which we personally do not allow, we have to see what our daughter is doing at all times) can you see what she is doing on it? something may have happened there that is making her feel anxious and she is taking it out on you. you need to get to the bottom of this. It may be a mental health issue which needs resolving sooner rather than later.
Not to be judgemental, but are you strict with her, does she have clear boundaries and know what is expected of her and what is unreasonable behaviour?
Speak to Relate or your GP. Good luck.

Mynameisdominoharvey · 01/07/2016 09:05

but don't forget at least half the general population are basically stupid, have you seen the news lately?!

Says someone who has just described punching her child...Hmm

EverythingWillBeFine · 01/07/2016 09:09

Amy I can relate to your post 100%.
Dc2 was like this and I had dc1 with whom I had bounding issues due to PND.
What you describe has basically has been my strategy. Alfie Kohn as well
as 'How to talk to children' were my main guides. No punishment, no reward either but lots and lots of explaining and talking about feelings (very helpful when dc2 was little and he had just hit his db again. I learn that every single time his main emotion was sadness which told me he needed support and reassurance at a time when most people would have punished)
Agree too about taking time for yourself. I put my ME down to the fact I've run myself down trying to keep all the plates spinning.
Something else that helped was Chinese herbal medicine. Far fetched but it made dc2 100% calmer and less anxious which in turns meant everything was easier for him and us.

Mynameisdominoharvey · 01/07/2016 09:20

everything what kind of Chinese herbal medicine did you use?

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