To feel this way about my daughter?

[emmamaw]

I'm sitting here crying like a baby over my 11yo dd. I struggle to say dd - as in dear daughter. We've never really been close. Shes the eldest of 3 and often says she wishes she'd stayed an only child. She hates her younger brother (8) and often loses patience and snaps at her baby sister (3). I think she hates me too. The way she speaks to us all is dreadful. I know children are self-centered but she really has no care or consideration for anyone in this house. Every day I wake up dreading what mood shes going to be in. All she cares about is going on the phone/tablet/pc to talk to her best friend and watch videos. I know thats probably pretty normal but if anything gets in the way of that the whole household suffers. If she doesnt want to go somewhere she will purposefully ruin the whole day. We sometimes have to leave her behind when we do day trips etc. just so that the other dc dont miss out. Its like she hates the world around her and wants everyone to know it. Shes always saying she wishes she could go and live with her best friends family, and I truly believe she means it.
This morning I said we would go to town after school, just the two of us, to buy her holiday clothes, as she says she hates what I buy for her and really kicks off if I make her wear them. She shrugged her shoulders and said 'whatever'. Then i found some new underwear I'd bought her hidden behind her bed. When i asked her about it she looked me straight in the eye, and with utter contempt said 'i dont want to wear anything you buy me, and i dont want to go anywhere with you, ever!' I just saw red and smacked her. It scares me sometimes the hate that boils up inside me. I just feel so wretched over her. Shes been like this for years and weve tried everything we can think of. I have great relationships with my partner and other two dcs. I just feel like she ruins everything. She hates me and nothing i do seems to change that. I dread coming home from work and often stay late because I know there'll be trouble as soon as i walk in. I cant live like this for the next seven or whatever years.
How do you learn to live with someone who hates you?

'im the adult and i have to shower her with love and bite my lip and not take it personal', and 'ok i can't take any more she needd to understand what is acceptable behaviour and what wil not be tolerated in this household'.

would it help if you thought through a few scenarios beforehand and decided what you react against and what you do not?

We have always had a general rule that nobody is allowed to call names or swear at anybody else in this house. So anyone who does that will be called on it.

Otoh, there are no actual rules against shouting, being negative, looking grumpy or not wanting to do something. So that I would let ride as far as possible. If ds says he isn't going to do what I ask him but then does, I count that as a win for my parenting. If he does it with a cat's bum face I count it as a win. If he does it whilst muttering that no other parents have such ridiculous rules, I still count it as a win.

Basically, I think it comes down to: you are responsible for how you behave but not for how you make somebody else feel.

I think, respectfully, that you're looking at this in an unhelpful way. Your question is "how can you live with someone who hates you?" when, if I were in your situation, I'd be asking "is my DD okay?".

You admitted to smacking her. How often do you discipline her physically?

You mentioned "finding" the underwear. How often do you go through things in her room? Do you give her privacy?

She is your eldest and therefore you'll be figuring out how to handle the teen years for the first time. It won't be plain sailing. But it sounds like you're trying to control her, by smacking her, by choosing her clothes, at a time when she wants independence.

I used to say I wanted to live with my best friend's family because my mum smacked me and got angry. She also went through my belongings. I ended up with clinical depression. My mum always made it all about her, lashing out at me for lashing out at her, compounding the issue. There's a chance she might have early signs of mental health problems at her age; that's when mine kicked in. Or maybe the family environment is dysfunctional and you're unable to see it.

Certainly, seeing red and smacking her for what she said is a big overreaction. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't that bad. A lot of teenagers say they wish they'd never been born and they're running away. You need to work on yourself and be prepared to handle things like that, without getting physical and further undermining any trust or relationship you might have.

My mum always told me that I hated her for no good reason and wouldn't look at what I was trying to say to her. Sometimes you have to get beyond "poor me, my daughter hates me, it must be something about her because everyone else loves me" and really be prepared to admit fault and work on the problems. Blaming an 11 year old seems inappropriate.

I'll warn you in advance that my post will sound harsh.

Your poor dd.

I'm not going to say 'poor you' although it's plain you're suffering too. I think you're doing a good enough job, tbh, of pitying yourself - there's a lot about you and your feelings in your posts. A lot of you now knowing how you are going to get through the next seven years (counting down, already, until she leaves home?

You are projecting massively - massively - onto a young child. Attributing adult feelings and motives to her - that she is 'trying to ruin' things. Saying she 'hates you' when you are the one who says at the very beginning that you've never been close and that despite her birth you 'make extra effort' but it's thrown back at you. She knows, OP. When she refuses to come out with you she is testing you. And when she is left behind she sees it as confirmation that she is not loved. And you are seizing on her behaviour as the perfect excuse to make her into the problem. The poor, poor girl.

I'm being harsh on purpose, because yxou need to realise that you are the adult and this is your mess to sort out - even if you didn't mean things to turn out like this. I say this as the daughter of a mother whose feelings about me were ambivalent at best and who succeeded in turning me into the problem. My dc and I don't see her.

You need family and individual therapy, and you need it urgently. You can turn this around. But it is likely to be hard and painful for you.

First reaction, this seems to be a vefy cplex situation.
Second one, stop the PC tablet etc... When dc1 was on it too much, he became exactely like this, just unbearable. I would hope this could settle things down a bit (but also realise this would be very hard to implement!)

I also think you need to ask yourself when you are saying "no" to her, is there a good reason for saying no. You say when she gets home from one to one time with you she wants to raid the cupboards/stay on the PC etc. Is that stuff met with a flat out no? Because if it is, no wonder she kicks off.

There has to be some option for compromise. A snack of her choosing. An hour on the PC. Hearing no all the time is bound to get frustrating.

I was like this. My mum was very upset because I hated her, spent all my time at my best mate's house and LOVED her mum. Looking back I was desperately happy with everything about my appearance (overweight, spotty and plain) and personality (shy) but couldn't vocalise it so instead I was horrid to my folks.

*unhappy

Op you said unthread you wondered whether this was serious enough? I would say it's really serious and for you both. I would engage with school and gp if needed to follow through any underlying issues but most of all to get family therapy/ personal therapy/ parenting lessons. Hope you are all happier soon. One of mine is tricky sometimes and it can be so hard.

emmamaw Wed 29-Jun-16 12:20:14

"She does have shocking taste and no real personal groomibg standard but i try to let her pick from a few options."

Ouch. That hurts me just reading about it. What is wrong with letting her develop her own taste (within family budget and general society expectations)? Why do you need to give her the message that your taste is the right one and hers doesn't matter? I don't think that's a necessary part of parenting at all. Do you feel the same contempt for all her choices?

I want to offer my sympathy to you Emma. I have a DD of similar age, eldest of 3, introverted, stubborn, I worry about our bonding when she was small because she. never. slept. We had feeding problems and looking back, it was a fraught time, although I loved her as much as I could, and still do, but it's a different, more complicated love than that which I have for her more easygoing siblings. And obviously I feel guilty for that.

She has done all the things you mention your DD does, I feel all the confusion over how to tackle it. I have tried so many things - from books and from plain old anger and frustration (leading to more guilt). But I keep coming back to letting her be herself as much as I can and trying to give her unconditional love.

I think DD's defences are up due to low self esteem, so I've encouraged her to develop her interests and have activities that only she does. We've had a bit of success but often it falls on stony ground.

You sound like a lovely, normal mum who is trying so hard for your girl. I wanted to wish you all the best in unpicking the puzzles of your DD.

I feel so so sorry for you. My DD1 is 9, and is quite like this a lot of the time. I definitely agree with PPs that you need to get professional help with this - if only for the moral support as it is very very hard to do what you need to do and stick to it.

I think my DD1 is very needy of attention. She wants it all for herself all the time. There is only 16 months between her and DD2, and I am gradually separating their time together as much as possible and making short amounts of one on one time for her and me during the week and things are improving. Perhaps your DD needs a huge amount of time one on one with a parent to start getting her back on track. The other thing I am learning is not to respond to the goading AT ALL. If she says something hurtful or aggressive or mean I don't look at her, I don't respond, and try to get normal conversation back on track as soon as possible. It is hard as sometimes she will manage to do something that absolutely requires a response, but I think you have to do everything in your power not to respond to the horrible behaviour with attention, because that is what she wants. She needs to learn that she only gets lots of attention from parents when she is behaving in a socially acceptable way.

Please find some advice and support from somewhere, I can understand your dread of the next 8 years, you need to get it sorted!

OP you REALLY need to let her choose her clothing....obviously she can't wear things which are age inappropriate but she must be allowed some control.

And don't hit her.

I haven't chosen clothes other than say, plain leggings for my daughter a long while- as long as she isn't prancing around in a bikini it's up to her what she wears. Being 11 is scary, new school coming up, having sex ed and learning new things, friendship issues at this age are horrid, wanting to be a child still, too old for toys, too young for boys is the old expression, She needs you guide her gently.

She's growing up OP. She needs privacy, the right to brush her own hair and not to get hit.

I have a 14 year old who is so similar, but she doesn't have any friends and I feel that this is near the route of her problems. My DD also talks to my mum a lot and tells tales on me and my partner (her dad) telling her how awful we are. All hugely exaggerated. We also have quite big age gaps between our children which doesn't help but isn't an excuse. No advice, just sympathy!

And my DD wouldn't brush her hair at all if I didn't remind her, then finish it off. The wails aren't as bad as they used to be, but she does have a v low pain threshold.

I see you've had a variety of advice on here. I wonder if first-borns are more sensitive?

issynoho, I also struggled with DD1 when she was very young. It wasn't a straightforward birth and I didn't get to hold her for quite a long time afterwards. And she didn't sleep and was difficult to feed, so the whole thing was fraught. I often wonder if that was the root of our problems, that our relationship started off quite stressful, and perhaps she has an inbuilt fear of me not being there for her.

I think you could really do with family therapy. A good starting point might be to talk to your GP - you need help.

From my experience of one of mine, nothing like as bad as you've described but... well in the past she has gone on "special holidays" whilst the rest of us did something else - BUT she still resents us having memories/doing stuff without her. When she is in a good mood/state she tries to hold those feelings in. When she is in a bad mood/state they are another thing to throw at us and show how little we care!

I think you would benefit from some help dealing with your own feelings.
Is your DP her father? I think this is crucial - either to explain some of it or to show how much he needs to work on issues himself.

At 11 she is still a child, regardless of how grown up she might seem. A lot of the behaviour may be to gain attention. And you need to be the grown up which means not allowing her to hurt you, seeing the hurtful things as a way of lashing out because she is hurting. You also need to find ways of defusing the situation, and prioritising what is really important.

Get some professional support go to gp ask for referral to family therapist who will work with you her and whole family

I think you need to get professional help. "Reading the books and trying the techniques" won't work in this situation because - as you rightly identify- a lot of the issue is the relationship between you. It sounds like this is too deep to be "cured" by reading a book on your own.

I work with families and parents like you. What I would suggest is that you get some individual help first of all. I mean, a counsellor or therapist to help you express and unpick everything about this current situation. After you have done this (and you may notice some changes just from this), I would then recommend some either parent-child therapy or family therapy, to involve you & your daughter initially but possibly extended to include wider family later on.

Deoending on the services in your area, you could access this via your child's school (ask the SENCO if he/she knows of any suitable service), via CAMHS (poss via GP referral), maybe via Children's Centre (as you do have one child under 5 although depends on their criteria), or you may be best to access charity or private.

Good luck.

This situation can and will change but I do think external professional support would be useful.

Emmamaw you are clearly at your wit's end and this has been going on for years so is not just due to hormonal changes. Get help asap for individual and family counselling. She sounds very angry and is probably most angry with herself without really understanding why. She had a decent period alone with you before DS arrived so not as if she felt displaced immediately. This isn't just going to end spontaneously when she matures as the usual adolescent thing does. When I was a social worker and we saw teenagers with behavioural issues like this we always wished help had been sought earlier the earlier the better before it becomes too ingrained. You need someone to get DD talking about her issues and hopefully get through to her how her behaviour is affecting everyone else and in turn herself. You need support in your parenting and a clear programme of how to manage her behaviour. This means consistent and persistent handling of the situation like sleep and other programmes for young children you won't see immediate change but you have to persevere. You love your DD and want the best for her, unlike able though she may be, and for the sake of everyone you need to get this help. Imagine the nightmare if your younger children start to mimic DD1!

I'd missed the bit about not letting you brush her hair. Totally inappropriate at her age, not surprised she doesn't let you.

The way I see it, there are two parts to parenting at this age, particularly if you have a girl (because societal pressures are different on pubertal girls).

One is to clamp down on bad behaviour. Consistently and calmly. And to be prepared to have to do so for a good long time.

The other is to boost their self esteem. To let them know that they are good enough, that you are proud of them, that their interests and tastes and looks and developing bodies are good enough. They are up against a whole society that is geared to play on their insecurities: you should be the person who provides them with self confidence. I think criticising the appearance of a girl this age is something that should only be done if absolutely necessary- and have a good long think beforehand about what necessary means in this context.

and yyy to the idea of family therapy