To be worried that the Brexiteers might be wrong and an economic disaster is waiting if we leave?

[Girlwithnotattoos]

What if we wake up on Friday out of the EU, probably nothing immediately other than some soul searching by the remainders. But what about in the months to come? What if all the economists and world leaders were right? We could be heading down the swanny big time, companies moving to the EU proper, jobs going left right and centre, deficit increasing because of lost revenues (taxes, vat etc).

I've listened to the fervent Brexiteers who have dismissed everything put to them as propaganda and yet they still haven't come up with a plan to counter the 'what if' scenarios. Am I the only one to be worried that nobody has a plan B if the economy does slow down to tune of 1.4%to 6% as predicted bearing in mind that a reduction of just 0.4% would counteract any saving to be made on what we contribute to the EU?

if you don't ever pay attention to the markets and don't have a rough idea of how they work - then yes Cameron etc will succeed in scaring you. The truth is they will go up and down and then they'll settle. Our low interest rates are one of our biggest problems and why pound heading down whether we leave or stay.

www.telegraph.co.uk/money/special-reports/how-brexit-will-affect-your-money/

See last line here : even if we stay in Euro our pound is going down.

"Sterling has fallen by 12.5pc against the euro, 6.8pc against the US dollar and 11.4pc against the Australian dollar since the debate took off last December. But economists' expectations that interest rates will stay on hold until the middle of 2017, even if the UK remains in the EU, are also partly responsible for pushing the pound lower."

www.ftadviser.com/2016/06/17/investments/uk/rathbone-s-smith-on-brexit-impact-on-financial-services-NbZbBfudYRsWYXzN4UVtkJ/article.html

"However, Mr Smith said this was mostly “because of what has happened to interest rate expectations”, but not the high double-digit drops that some commentators have predicted."

www.cityam.com/241823/why-long-term-investors-shouldnt-fear-brexit-alarming-projections-have-emerged-about-the-impact-of-britain-leaving-the-eu-on-sterling-stocks-and-bonds-but-there-are-reasons-not-to-expect-the-worst

The Treasury model was based on the most daft assumptions put into their economic modelling - where we wouldn 't have a bright idea and if we did we'd continually choose the incorrect direction - for the next 15 years ! We'd have to have lobotomies to run the economy along the lines of the Treasury predictions. Leaving a failing social, politcial and economic experiement/project is not a crazy idea.

Big business get more profits if we stay. That's what it boils down to. Big business will squeeze every last penny out of workers that it can. We are allowing them to continue with that if we vote to remain.

Hence Goldman Sachs bankrolling your remain campaign of fear of choosing self determination.

The left are dominated by Blairite thinkers - and Corbyn known amongst journalists as the "leave campaign's secret weapon inside the remain campaign" - if you are able to read between the lines you will hear what he's saying. Some of the remainers are so literal though, they're even falling for Corybn supports the EU now.

twitter.com/WTBDavidG/status/745659670644260864

Well vote to stay then- feed the corrupt, fat cat EU beast with billions a year to have it run by people we don't vote for, have no control over and can't get rid of.
People who are working now speeding up the access of Turkey to full EU membership.
People who control trade deals on our behalf so we can't negotiate ourselves.
People who can dictate immigration to us- we have no ability to control it, as David Cameron has admitted. The EU will not allow us to. He has singularly failed to meet one of his basic electoral promises because he has no power to do so as long as we remain in the EU. They will not even negotiate with us about it.
Vote for that.

Of course big business wants us to stay- they pay peanuts to many EU workers and their vast profits will be at risk if they have to pay decent wages to British people.

Of course Scotland wants us to stay- they benefit hugely from EU funding and it suits their plan for independence. They won't be able to be independent without the EU to shore them up. It is about politicians wanting people to vote so that politicians get what they want- power and supposed independence - financed by the EU.

Vote Remain if those are the things you want to perpetuate. Be too scared to take the risk and change and settle for what you think is security - then watch the impact on public services- health, education, social care, housing ; they won't stand the strain.

Wow mamamea

Again I think I will have to ask for clarification - is it that you are disgusted that a banner won't fly over a memorial for a murdered woman?

Or are you disgusted that anyone would think it appropriate that it would be OK?

Confused

if you don't ever pay attention to the markets and don't have a rough idea of how they work - then yes Cameron etc will succeed in scaring you.

Cameron is right to be concerned about what could happen to our economy. The world is concerned and somewhat disbelieving that anyone could make this choice to enter what will, in all likelihood, be years of hardship for those already struggling financially. The market 'settling' next week or next month is the least of our worries financially. If that's the only sliver of comfort you can offer the uneducated masses, it's not up to much.

I think it's generalised disgust intended to provoke showme. May I suggest you ignore - reasoned debate doesn't lie that way.

Lulu is that an immigration speech? And yes I am far too concerned to take the risk

As I have said before - how will you achieve your plans? Where are the plans? Who will deliver your objectives? Do you know there is no mandate for your statements and Leaving will not give you them? Who will represent your Leave objectives - how will they be held accountable?

Thank you gone I will

Thing is they flew over more than once.

Gone don't you think it would be odd if they were not worried about it? But worrying and something actually happening are two different things - look at the EURO fiasco.

Lulu, If the EU was in our country, doing this to our gov direclty with our papers reporting it daily there would be riots.

Its because its removed, out of sight, out of mind . people need something tangible to see.

The coincidence of timing could not have been known? Yep not at all........especially not living as we do in the digital age

SO in that sense it really isn't complex - at all. We stay as we are or we jump into an unplanned, ill thought out future that we have been led into with politicians who will not be held accountable for their actions

The complexity is around the fact that if we stopped and thought there are real economic advantages to being outside. As ine country we would have the potential to trade more with other countries, while keeping a free trade (and movement) agreement with the EU. The UK could prosper outside. But we haven't thought about it and we dont have a plan, as you say which is exactly why I will vote remain.

I really find it irritating when other countries tell us what to do though.

And in relation to Corbyn he has spoken more sense on the subject than anyone else imo.

"Again I think I will have to ask for clarification - is it that you are disgusted that a banner won't fly over a memorial for a murdered woman?"

They were not flying over a memorial for a murdered woman. They were flying over central London, the day before the referendum. Where exactly would you expect them to fly their banner? (And the route would have been prebooked with police/air traffic control anyway)

The suggestion that they should be banned from campaigning over central London the day before the election is an affront to democracy.

Gone to - i take it you don't follow the markets then? Or understand the impact the ultra low interest rates have on our currency's desirability?
Or understand that Bank of England's continuing announcments re. interest rates impacts.

The truth is investment will continue because of trust in our legal system.

What is happening all over EU to their banks (soon to be released news being held back on Italy and Spain) etc is the disaster - not us leaving the unreformable EU Commissions' grasp.

Helena I think it was a sad mistake, was the plane circling only TS or was it going all over London?

Its the day before the end....I wish it could have avoided TS its tacky, but at the same time, if it was a mistake it is our capital city the day before a major event...

lulu

Our services and amenities will probably not be helped by brexit and could very well be harmed. Those 'fat cats' you mention will be disposed to show the rest of Europe that life is harder outside.

Any money that is saved (very questionable that there will be any) will not go to the NHS or anything like it. It will be paying for the post-Brexit upheavals and may not come close. Voters should be aware that any better life, if it ever came, is a considerable way off and will almost certainly follow a period of hardship.

Whether we negotiate trade deals for ourselves or do so as part of Europe, we are still talking about life as part of the common market. That means many terms of the deal are already set by those controlling the common market. Brexit might mean we have more autonomy on a small scale (though not much point to that if other countries are far less interested in talking to us), but we will have no input at all into how the common market operates. That could mean less power and less autonomy. So we'll be living in solitary splendour on our island, telling ourselves we're invincible, and then going off to make deals with Europe as if we're rural farmers up against Tesco. On paper it sounds like heady freedom; the reality will be less sexy. Immigration is the least successful Brexit argument because most of our unskilled immigrants aren't from Europe at all. And again, if we want to trade with Europe we will never, regardless of how sovereign we become, get to choose these terms. That's a lost cause and perhaps that's a good thing. Immigration is a global issue and should be worked out globally. We need our voice to be heard more at the table, not to leave it altogether.

You say 'of course big businesses want us to stay' but actually, almost everyone wants us to stay. The voices urging us to stay are too many to hold the same vested interests. Even Gove has given up on trying to win through reasoned argument and has instead started disparaging experts for being experts.

I think there is bound to be an immediate negative effect and people will be more cautious for a while, that's to be expected after any big change, but I think it will all settle down and come good in the end.

leave My salary is connected to the markets so I have every reason to care. My point stands.

weekendaway

I have to admire your blind optimism in very mediocre politicians who are not renowned for brilliance. You need a plan. Better yet, Boris needs a plan. If there was anything approaching a way forward from the Brexit side, this would make a lot more sense.

And again, if we want to trade with Europe we will never, regardless of how sovereign we become, get to choose these terms. That's a lost cause and perhaps that's a good thing. Immigration is a global issue and should be worked out globally

I dont agree with this, if we got to a point where the EU needed us more than we needed them we would have more influence than we have at the moment. So to state 'never' is impossible as we just don't know. The idea we can Brexit and stop free movement/dictate overnight is fantasy, however. It would be a long drawn out process.

You need a plan. Better yet, Boris needs a plan. If there was anything approaching a way forward from the Brexit side, this would make a lot more sense.

I agree, sadly.

I am still baffled by this idea that a Brexit will lead to better employment practices and higher wages. I just can't picture Gove or Johnson as socialists.

Our services and amenities will probably not be helped by brexit and could very well be harmed

HOw so when its a dramatic rise of "service" users thats caused the major problems.

You can talk about under funding all you like the bare facts are neither Labour nor this Government have helped the NHS. We know its haemorrhaging money, it does not properly bill other users from outside the EU, we don't chase money we don't do anything, we seem incapable of it.

So we are faced with two issues, lobby the government to help the NHS but how can we help it when its service users simple increases to an un known degree, year in and year out? How can you provide beds? Staff? How?

How can you plan for anything?

I guess if we stay we can forget about green belt, all round me, its not under threat - its being built on.

You have Remain supporters, fighting to save land for TOADS?

You cant have it both ways.

going off to make deals with Europe as if we're rural farmers up against Tesco

we are rural farmers who buy an awful lot of expensive cars and wine and all the rest from Europe, i think those sellers would be furious if their governments prohibited us from buying?

Immigration is the least successful Brexit argument because most of our unskilled immigrants aren't from Europe at all

we cant head count and we cannot monitor the movements of the black economy, there is a world out there on our streets of immigrants from the EU who live on shoe string budgets, move round lots, work cash in hand and live in cheap lodgings often crowded or beds in sheds or even in ramshackle tents.

There are problems within the NHS that need rectifying. But I dont think Brexit is the way to do it.