To be worried that the Brexiteers might be wrong and an economic disaster is waiting if we leave?

[Girlwithnotattoos]

What if we wake up on Friday out of the EU, probably nothing immediately other than some soul searching by the remainders. But what about in the months to come? What if all the economists and world leaders were right? We could be heading down the swanny big time, companies moving to the EU proper, jobs going left right and centre, deficit increasing because of lost revenues (taxes, vat etc).

I've listened to the fervent Brexiteers who have dismissed everything put to them as propaganda and yet they still haven't come up with a plan to counter the 'what if' scenarios. Am I the only one to be worried that nobody has a plan B if the economy does slow down to tune of 1.4%to 6% as predicted bearing in mind that a reduction of just 0.4% would counteract any saving to be made on what we contribute to the EU?

I am not a racist. I am not an anti-Semite either (unlike some in the glorious labour party)

I am voting out because the EU has failed and will continue to fail audits.
I am voting out because if we vote in, the EU will literally pile on everything. there will be no opt outs. there will be no special treatment, there will be no exemptions from the single currency, the Schengen agreement or an EU army.

all of those voting to stay in are not voting for the status quo. if you think you are, then think again.

I don't give one shiny shit about Iceland, france, Germany, USA, the tories, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, America or anything else you are going to throw at me as a reason for staying in or for not voting out.

I am not stupid. I know there will be challenges ahead. I run my own small business and as a self employed person I am used to having to cut my cloth, to drumming up business, to working when times are really tough.

you cant not vote for something just because other people who are voting for it hold obnoxious views otherwise why vote for the anti semitic labour party, or the "we lied over tuition fees" lib dems or the tories.

Its a really really simple question at the end of the day. do you want the laws of this country to be made in this country by people that you elect and can throw out after 5 years if they cock it up. or do you want most of your laws made by a group of people that mis spend and can never pass an audit.

and if you cant name your MEP, why on earth would you be voting to stay in.

Its a really really simple question at the end of the day.

No, it's not simple. It's not about what we 'want'. It's about what is likely to happen.

I don't think you understand the ramifications, TBH>

Very well said mm. Espically about a no vote meaning the EU will gain more power.

No ones saying Iceland is a utopia. But they have done lots of things right IMO in terms of finance. The uk is still treading water and will have to blow up eventually.

Oh I'm having a good old chuckle here. Yes, I'd like to model the UK on Icelandic economic policy just as much as a tattoo of Boris Johnson on my arse appeals.

Vote Leave banner just flown over the Jo Cox memorial taking place in Trafalgar Square

I get that in the end this is an emotional decision rather than a rational one.

But some people's inability to grasp the actual economic implications is staggering.

you cant not vote for something just because other people who are voting for it hold obnoxious views otherwise why vote for the anti semitic labour party, or the "we lied over tuition fees" lib dems or the tories

I agree on this. Mummy I just don't think people understand what democracy really means.

If we had asked everyone to hand over their wages to other people in their street for a month/ stick their noses into each others houses/business, gardens and so and then let themselves into each others house at will... I am sure they would all vote out!

of course I understand the ramifications of leaving. don't be so condescending. its the people who are voting stay that think we are just going to carry on as we are that you need to worry about.

can you name your MEP gonetoseeaman redtoothbrush and any other remainers?

I bet you can all name your MP's though.

the remain side doesn't incite hatred towards people on the basis of their race

Really?

So calling people lazy etc isn't meant as an insult then? It doesn't do any harm?

its the people who are voting stay that think we are just going to carry on as we are that you need to worry about

I agree I cannot believe how happy people are to hand over power to mysterious body of people hundreds of miles away in another country.

I just cant imagine many MN who would be happy to hand over their wages every month to someone else to take charge of them, or their houses and so on.

Who would want too? Don't we all love being independent?

you cant not vote for something just because other people who are voting for it hold obnoxious views

Agreed. But at the same time, if people holding obnoxious views are voting for something, you've got to question what they stand to get out of it and whether you want to throw yourself behind that.

An EU army is highly, highly unlikely. Serious negative consequences in terms of national security if we leave the EU are, frankly, much more likely.

If you cant name your MEP, why on earth would you be voting to stay in.

Bizarre question. Being able to name your MEP has nothing to do with why it will probably hurt us to leave the EU. Remain experts in every field have not listed their concerns in detail but added 'All void if you can name your MEP' in fine print at the bottom.

helena awful.

So calling people lazy etc isn't meant as an insult then? It doesn't do any harm?

That's tame.

With no irony at all I have been told to 'fuck off out of the country' for voting leave by a Remainer.

I dont think it is tame when its used to undercut the youth of the country and used as a wonderful excuse by ruthless bosses who prefer cheap and desperate Eastern European labour.

if this has been posted before - sorry
The 'economic catastrophe' fear of leaving is not for certain.

Markus Kerber, head of the BDI (Germany’s answer to the CBI), is calling on his country to not risk damaging trade with punitive post-Brexit tariffs.
“Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries – or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other – would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st century. The BDI would urge politicians on both sides to come up with a trade regime that enables us to uphold and maintain the levels of trade we have”

I can name my MEP. I campaigned for and with her.

I think a lot of the debate in this referendum has shown how insidious and damaging it has been to blame immigrants and the EU for domestic problems.

Back to the discussion of the financial implications of a 'Leave' vote: I remember the early days of EU membership. Masses of sad face stories in the Sun and the Mail of people saying: 'I love being able to work for 50 hours on the trot. I am furious with the Europe for saying I can't', or owners of people running businesses saying that they were going to be put out of business because their work areas were too small for pregnant women, or their machinery wouldn't be worked by pregnant women and now they couldn't sack pregnant women they were going to be put out of business.

I'm exaggerating slightly for comic effect (I'm flagging that up, just in case it's not self-evident) but you get the gist.

We'll be back to those good old days without the EU but facing neo-liberals negotiating trade deals.

honestly the number of people on this thread with the view that if you don't agree with remain you must be stupid, lazy, not understand democracy, not have the ability to grasp the economics of it is quite staggering.

I do grasp the economics of it both in relation to leaving and the inevitable changes that there will be if we remain.

I believe on balance that leaving is the better option. that's it. I am no more intelligent than any of the remainers. I am not in the super tax bracket. I am not voting to leave either because of or in spite of BoJo, Cameron or anyone else who holds a similar view. I am voting leave because that is what I believe is best for our country and my children.

still waiting for someone in the remain camp to name their MEP!!!

There was a wink after that Iam.

It was to do with the irony of me being told what I was as a leaver by a Remainer

Iamslave

Leaving the EU will not bring us greater independence. In fact, we will probably have less autonomy and be forced to negotiate contracts that will leave us at least as constrained as before, with foreign bodies that won't be as keen to placate us as they were before. We will certainly have less influence and that will limit our options a great deal because we will, in turn be less powerful.

Look, Cameron's playing a game when he says we can never vote again on this. We could get out at any stage. It's getting back in that would be highly unlikely. At the moment, weighing the most likely Brexit scenario against what we have at the moment, it is overwhelmingly advantageous to continue with what we've got.

We will still have moral and global obligations to outsiders no matter what we do. I can tell you now that the skills based immigration system is forecast to be a long exercise in pen pushing futility.

Utter rubbish Slave Whats causing that problem is workfare. And there are people of all nationalities including British forced onto those work "placements"

HelenaDove: workfare has already been scrapped.

Why so many Remain lies????

thecatfromjapan were you alive when we weren't in the EU? of course it wasn't all a bed of roses. but this isn't the 1960's/70's.

I don't blame immigrants or the EU for all of our ills. I do blame the EU for taking millions of pounds of my/our money and then not being able to account for how they spent it. That's what "not passing an audit" means.

so yes, actually, I have a really good grasp of the economics because I have read several of the auditors findings. They make pretty grim reading.

"I can name my MEP. I campaigned for and with her."

You have at least three MEPs.

We are the world’s 5th biggest economy, the 8th biggest manufacturer; we speak the world’s international business language; we have the best contract law and one of the most trusted judicial systems in the world. We have the most creative and innovative financial services sector anywhere; we have three of the top universities in the world and, according to the World Bank, the most powerful capital city on earth

Being in the EU has held back our trading prospects. In the last 53 years, medium-sized Switzerland and Singapore, a city-state, have struck trade deals worth five times as much as the agreements the EU has pitifully managed.

The EU, with 28 member states, struggles to agree terms of trade, with so many varying interests, yet prevents us from striking our own way in the world

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/19/throw-off-the-eu-shackles-and-thriving-british-economy-will-do-e/

Sorry. Should have been 'our most recent'.

I've been looking up the pro-Leave Conservatives on wikipedia and they do not like workers' rights. That's what they mean when they talk about 'Brussels red tape'.